Australia [Archive Copy]
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Australia
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Moderator or Agitator
In response to the Moderator stepping into the fray...
The Moderator states:
... There were clearly expressed, unambiguous and strongly held differences of opinion
...Most schools seem to take compliments and criticisms as they come, the rough with the smooth...
...GG's protest suggests someone launched a personal attack on him and his wife!
...Credit people with the intelligence to distinguish between objective comments and those motivated by personal animosity.
Critism and discussion is fine... but the posts - many of them now removed - where not critism but personal attacks - they were crude, abusive, inflammatory and just plain wrong... as many have since acknowledged. That you did nothing to stem the tide of the abuse is in my view failing in the role of moderator.
Now you add your own views, when people are trying to 'calm the waters' - you in effect ridicule a post! HOW DARE YOU?
Credit us with the intelligence to interpret Rob Rich's post, its intent, its PR value - Without you wading into the fray with what becomes obvious is your own biased opinion.
You express outrage that someone would launch a personal attack on GG and his wife? But previously remained silent at the abuse that proceeded which were much more ficious and numerous - that apparently was not offensive to you... ?
This site, as you state, is about the free exchange of ideas...
your sites own terms and conditions state that the harrassment and personal attacks are not allowed... Your action, or actually your lack of it up until now riducules your own statement and the principles of this site.
I am signing off and have made myself a promise not to return to this site for some time... it makes me too mad!
To the rest... safe flying!
The Moderator states:
... There were clearly expressed, unambiguous and strongly held differences of opinion
...Most schools seem to take compliments and criticisms as they come, the rough with the smooth...
...GG's protest suggests someone launched a personal attack on him and his wife!
...Credit people with the intelligence to distinguish between objective comments and those motivated by personal animosity.
Critism and discussion is fine... but the posts - many of them now removed - where not critism but personal attacks - they were crude, abusive, inflammatory and just plain wrong... as many have since acknowledged. That you did nothing to stem the tide of the abuse is in my view failing in the role of moderator.
Now you add your own views, when people are trying to 'calm the waters' - you in effect ridicule a post! HOW DARE YOU?
Credit us with the intelligence to interpret Rob Rich's post, its intent, its PR value - Without you wading into the fray with what becomes obvious is your own biased opinion.
You express outrage that someone would launch a personal attack on GG and his wife? But previously remained silent at the abuse that proceeded which were much more ficious and numerous - that apparently was not offensive to you... ?
This site, as you state, is about the free exchange of ideas...
your sites own terms and conditions state that the harrassment and personal attacks are not allowed... Your action, or actually your lack of it up until now riducules your own statement and the principles of this site.
I am signing off and have made myself a promise not to return to this site for some time... it makes me too mad!
To the rest... safe flying!
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Apparently I was one of the lucky fellowes singled out during the frantic posting and withdrawing that occured whilst I was 
yesterday
Sadly, I missed the fun and so if anyone would like to voice their issues with me please PM me
NB Anyone that has met me in real life knows that I post under this pseudnym (cos I made it so bleedy obvious!), I expect the same courtesy in return
yesterdaySadly, I missed the fun and so if anyone would like to voice their issues with me please PM me
NB Anyone that has met me in real life knows that I post under this pseudnym (cos I made it so bleedy obvious!), I expect the same courtesy in return
Join Date: Mar 2000
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pssdoff
Please yourself. Since this is only your second post, your departure isn't going to make any difference to the worldwide success of this forum.
It appears that there were some extremely unpleasant attacks during last night (UK time) on Oz contributors who were not part of, and had taken no part whatsoever in the discussions. I'm pleased they were removed before I logged on this morning. If they hadn't been, I would have removed them myself.
I'm not going to waste time answering your distortions and inaccurate assertions. Your allegation of bias is absurd. Perhaps it's escaped your notice that I'm based on the other side of the world from the protagonists. You have no reason to know (but I'll tell you) that I have never (yet) set foot in Oz, don't know any of the people involved, and they're all just 'names' to me. Unlike you, I have no reason whatsoever to take sides.
Heliport
Please yourself. Since this is only your second post, your departure isn't going to make any difference to the worldwide success of this forum.
It appears that there were some extremely unpleasant attacks during last night (UK time) on Oz contributors who were not part of, and had taken no part whatsoever in the discussions. I'm pleased they were removed before I logged on this morning. If they hadn't been, I would have removed them myself.
I'm not going to waste time answering your distortions and inaccurate assertions. Your allegation of bias is absurd. Perhaps it's escaped your notice that I'm based on the other side of the world from the protagonists. You have no reason to know (but I'll tell you) that I have never (yet) set foot in Oz, don't know any of the people involved, and they're all just 'names' to me. Unlike you, I have no reason whatsoever to take sides.
Heliport
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International CPL(H) students in Australia
I received the below email from Becker helicopters. Problem was I followed the given instructions regarding visa. I quote: Simply apply yourself and your spouse a "tourist visa" or "visitor's visa"
which is valid for three months. Upon arriving at the school we will organise the paperwork for you and your spouse to remain in Australia on a study visa. This visa is valid of 12 months. The forms here at the school will include info for your spouse.
On arrival in Australia I found out a student visa had to be applied for offshore. 6wk waiting list. I then realised the calibre of the school I was applying to and went to another. Needless to say I was psssdoff.
Don't be naive. Visit Australian immigration www.immi.gov.au
From : Becker Helicopters <[email protected]>
Sent : 10 October 2002 04:33:53
To :
Subject : Becker Helicopters
| | | Inbox
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attachment : winmail.dat (4 KB)
Great to talk to you this morning. Here's some info about what we were
discussing which I hope will help.
VISAS
Simply apply yourself and your spouse a "tourist visa" or "visitor's visa"
which is valid for three months. Upon arriving at the school we will
organise the paperwork for you and your spouse to remain in Australia on a
study visa. This visa is valid of 12 months. The forms here at the school
will include info for your spouse.
REAL ESTATE
You will need to budget about AUD $240-$350 per week for a two bedroom
accommodation. I suggest logging onto the Professionals website (Realtor)
for other helpful info on rental properties. The address is
www.professionals.com.au/maroochydore When you arrive here we are happy to
set you up in a temporary in accommodation at a local motel, located close
to the school. Once here you'll have the opportunity to visit the real
estate agents and hopefully by the time you arrive we may have some listings
for you to see. Let us know more of your accommodation requirements closer
to the time.
FOOD AND LIVING EXPENSES
Generally, food costs is a little less than in England. Milk is approx AUD
$2-3 for 2 litres of milk. Bread is approx AUD $1.90-$2.30 a loaf. If
you're looking for a car, a resonable car will set you back about $5-6,000.
Depending on the condition. On top there is registration and insurance.
Approx AUD $500. But please email us closer to the time you will be
arriving about car prices. As well, there is usually someone here at the
school who wants to sell their vehicle.
Well I hope I've been able to help you with some of the information. Please
don't hesitate to email any questions. If I can't answer I'll get someone
here who can.
All the best.
Regards
Maraina Waaka
BUSINESS MANAGER
which is valid for three months. Upon arriving at the school we will organise the paperwork for you and your spouse to remain in Australia on a study visa. This visa is valid of 12 months. The forms here at the school will include info for your spouse.
On arrival in Australia I found out a student visa had to be applied for offshore. 6wk waiting list. I then realised the calibre of the school I was applying to and went to another. Needless to say I was psssdoff.
Don't be naive. Visit Australian immigration www.immi.gov.au
From : Becker Helicopters <[email protected]>
Sent : 10 October 2002 04:33:53
To :
Subject : Becker Helicopters
| | | Inbox
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attachment : winmail.dat (4 KB)
Great to talk to you this morning. Here's some info about what we were
discussing which I hope will help.
VISAS
Simply apply yourself and your spouse a "tourist visa" or "visitor's visa"
which is valid for three months. Upon arriving at the school we will
organise the paperwork for you and your spouse to remain in Australia on a
study visa. This visa is valid of 12 months. The forms here at the school
will include info for your spouse.
REAL ESTATE
You will need to budget about AUD $240-$350 per week for a two bedroom
accommodation. I suggest logging onto the Professionals website (Realtor)
for other helpful info on rental properties. The address is
www.professionals.com.au/maroochydore When you arrive here we are happy to
set you up in a temporary in accommodation at a local motel, located close
to the school. Once here you'll have the opportunity to visit the real
estate agents and hopefully by the time you arrive we may have some listings
for you to see. Let us know more of your accommodation requirements closer
to the time.
FOOD AND LIVING EXPENSES
Generally, food costs is a little less than in England. Milk is approx AUD
$2-3 for 2 litres of milk. Bread is approx AUD $1.90-$2.30 a loaf. If
you're looking for a car, a resonable car will set you back about $5-6,000.
Depending on the condition. On top there is registration and insurance.
Approx AUD $500. But please email us closer to the time you will be
arriving about car prices. As well, there is usually someone here at the
school who wants to sell their vehicle.
Well I hope I've been able to help you with some of the information. Please
don't hesitate to email any questions. If I can't answer I'll get someone
here who can.
All the best.
Regards
Maraina Waaka
BUSINESS MANAGER
Join Date: Jun 2002
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The last 24 hours or so on this thread has gotta be the nastiest, most pathetic, disgraceful over-reaction to crticism I've ever seen on Prune.
There's nothing new about posts praising and slagging off schools, the business practices of certain school owners, complaints by students they've been ripped off and advising other folk to steer clear. If people ask for advice on a forum like this they get told the bottom line, good and bad. Some people say a school's good, then others say they didn't think so. Some say they had a good deal then others say they got ripped off. People looking for a school have to make their own minds up whether the bad stuff is kosher or grudge time.
It's not the first time in this forum and it happens every week in the Wannabee and f/w Pro training forums. Usually it's about fixed-wing schools in Florida who target the British market and make promises to international students they can't or don't deliver when the student arrives, misleading or downright dishonest assurances about visas and jobs and so on.
I've seen schools ignore bad posts.
I've seen schools come back with their side of the argument.
But I've NEVER EVER see the owner of a school that's been criticised come back with nasty bullying personal attacks on people, even on people who hadn't said anything and even on someone's wife, like Becker and his friends have done here. IF they are 'friends' that is. Funny how all the nasty stuff was from people that registered the same time and said the same sort of nasty things.
And I've NEVER seen any school that's been criticised start attacking competitors who've done nothing.
I'd never even heard of the Becker school until these past few days and I'm not looking to do any training at my age, but I sure as hell wouldn't go within a mile of the Becker school if I needed training. NOT because of anything anyone else has said, but because of the behaviour of Becker himself and his 'supporters' on this thread.
If this is how Becker behaves when someone upsets him, I pity any student who gets on the wrong side of him. Someone like that wouldn't get one cent of my money.
Mr Becker.
If anyone had any doubts about the way you treat people who get on the wrong side of you, you removed it. Some folks say you try to get revenge on anyone who crosses you and that's exactly what youve done here.
They say you can smooth talk when you want to. Well, your later "let's all be friends" bullsh1t ain't working with me. You showed your true colors and it's too late to put them back in the box now.
I'm real pleased you don't plan to post in this forum again. It's a great talking shop for professional helo pilots from different cultures and countries all over the world to swop thoughts and ask each others opinions about something and nothing. We try to help each other and we try to help beginners trying to get into our industry. Most of all, it's a happy friendly community of swell people where folk can disagree without getting nasty. You wouldn't fit in.
My advice to anyone before they commit to any school anywhere in the world, especially international students is:
Do NOT make decisions on the basis of slick brochures. Some of the best schools have poor brochures and some of the worst have fine glossy creations.
Do NOT be taken in by slick sales patter. Good sales people and good pilots/Flight Instructors are often different animals.
Do NOT take what schools say about visas. Check what they say with the relevant government department to see if it's true.
Do NOT pay any attention to hints or promises of work at the end of your course. Unless work is guaranteed in writing, promises aren't worth anything.
Do your own research. Names of former students provided by the schools aren't worth much. They're not going to give you names of dissatisfied customers.
If you're an international student going to a new country to do your training, check out what the natives say. There's good and bad everywhere but the helicopter world is small and the locals will know where's good and where to avoid, who you can trust and who you can't. Check out what people say on a forum like this which has knowedgeable people from all over the world. If one person says good or bad, it's not worth much but if there's a few responses look for the general view, and read between the lines.
There's nothing new about posts praising and slagging off schools, the business practices of certain school owners, complaints by students they've been ripped off and advising other folk to steer clear. If people ask for advice on a forum like this they get told the bottom line, good and bad. Some people say a school's good, then others say they didn't think so. Some say they had a good deal then others say they got ripped off. People looking for a school have to make their own minds up whether the bad stuff is kosher or grudge time.
It's not the first time in this forum and it happens every week in the Wannabee and f/w Pro training forums. Usually it's about fixed-wing schools in Florida who target the British market and make promises to international students they can't or don't deliver when the student arrives, misleading or downright dishonest assurances about visas and jobs and so on.
I've seen schools ignore bad posts.
I've seen schools come back with their side of the argument.
But I've NEVER EVER see the owner of a school that's been criticised come back with nasty bullying personal attacks on people, even on people who hadn't said anything and even on someone's wife, like Becker and his friends have done here. IF they are 'friends' that is. Funny how all the nasty stuff was from people that registered the same time and said the same sort of nasty things.
And I've NEVER seen any school that's been criticised start attacking competitors who've done nothing.
I'd never even heard of the Becker school until these past few days and I'm not looking to do any training at my age, but I sure as hell wouldn't go within a mile of the Becker school if I needed training. NOT because of anything anyone else has said, but because of the behaviour of Becker himself and his 'supporters' on this thread.
If this is how Becker behaves when someone upsets him, I pity any student who gets on the wrong side of him. Someone like that wouldn't get one cent of my money.
Mr Becker.
If anyone had any doubts about the way you treat people who get on the wrong side of you, you removed it. Some folks say you try to get revenge on anyone who crosses you and that's exactly what youve done here.
They say you can smooth talk when you want to. Well, your later "let's all be friends" bullsh1t ain't working with me. You showed your true colors and it's too late to put them back in the box now.
I'm real pleased you don't plan to post in this forum again. It's a great talking shop for professional helo pilots from different cultures and countries all over the world to swop thoughts and ask each others opinions about something and nothing. We try to help each other and we try to help beginners trying to get into our industry. Most of all, it's a happy friendly community of swell people where folk can disagree without getting nasty. You wouldn't fit in.
My advice to anyone before they commit to any school anywhere in the world, especially international students is:
Do NOT make decisions on the basis of slick brochures. Some of the best schools have poor brochures and some of the worst have fine glossy creations.
Do NOT be taken in by slick sales patter. Good sales people and good pilots/Flight Instructors are often different animals.
Do NOT take what schools say about visas. Check what they say with the relevant government department to see if it's true.
Do NOT pay any attention to hints or promises of work at the end of your course. Unless work is guaranteed in writing, promises aren't worth anything.
Do your own research. Names of former students provided by the schools aren't worth much. They're not going to give you names of dissatisfied customers.
If you're an international student going to a new country to do your training, check out what the natives say. There's good and bad everywhere but the helicopter world is small and the locals will know where's good and where to avoid, who you can trust and who you can't. Check out what people say on a forum like this which has knowedgeable people from all over the world. If one person says good or bad, it's not worth much but if there's a few responses look for the general view, and read between the lines.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: queensland australia
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one of mike beckers previous posts thanks me and some others for their support for him over some the contents of this thread.
a few years ago i supported mike, firstly with casa when he could not substantiate his flying hours as his log book was "burnt in a fire" when he was in png. then i employed him as a grade two instructor and got him to grade one.
that was a few years ago and a lot of air has passed over the disc since then.
i have not, as his posts suggests supported him by mail, email, telephone, semaphore, smoke signals or even mirrors over events on this forum. i am whithin a hundred metres of him nearly every day and i don't even wave.
it worries me greatly that a person who has gone out of his way to make life difficult for me in the past would use my name to garner some form of relief. it beats me.
i have, hanging on the wall of my office for all to see, a restraining order that was placed on me by the court a few years ago courtesy of "captain mike". i relieved my pent up emotions.
i laugh, i drink rum (and red) and let the world turn and as you can probably work out i don't hold stock in becker helicopters.
graeme
a few years ago i supported mike, firstly with casa when he could not substantiate his flying hours as his log book was "burnt in a fire" when he was in png. then i employed him as a grade two instructor and got him to grade one.
that was a few years ago and a lot of air has passed over the disc since then.
i have not, as his posts suggests supported him by mail, email, telephone, semaphore, smoke signals or even mirrors over events on this forum. i am whithin a hundred metres of him nearly every day and i don't even wave.
it worries me greatly that a person who has gone out of his way to make life difficult for me in the past would use my name to garner some form of relief. it beats me.
i have, hanging on the wall of my office for all to see, a restraining order that was placed on me by the court a few years ago courtesy of "captain mike". i relieved my pent up emotions.
i laugh, i drink rum (and red) and let the world turn and as you can probably work out i don't hold stock in becker helicopters.
graeme
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Queensland, Australia
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"Becker Bashing...."
I got directed to this "thread" in an email from a mate this morning........... wow !!!!
If some of you folk spent less time writing hate mail, and a bit more doing/promoting what you profess to enjoy then we would live in an even better place than we do already.....
.....the South of France isn't too bad either !!
Jayfer
(NB. New email address in my details for those who don't know it)
If some of you folk spent less time writing hate mail, and a bit more doing/promoting what you profess to enjoy then we would live in an even better place than we do already.....
.....the South of France isn't too bad either !!
Jayfer
(NB. New email address in my details for those who don't know it)
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Is that it?
Or did you mean to say something useful and hit the 'submit' key by mistake?
Your first post since November 2001, only seven previous posts in total - and all but one of those were asking if anyone could help you find a job in the Middle or Far East.
Now, what were you saying about "a bit more doing/promoting"?
Isn't it a good thing we've got lots of other busy enthusiastic Oz pilots here, not only promoting their industry but also finding time to answer questions from people interested in training or working in ............ Australia.
Or did you mean to say something useful and hit the 'submit' key by mistake?
Your first post since November 2001, only seven previous posts in total - and all but one of those were asking if anyone could help you find a job in the Middle or Far East.
Now, what were you saying about "a bit more doing/promoting"?
Isn't it a good thing we've got lots of other busy enthusiastic Oz pilots here, not only promoting their industry but also finding time to answer questions from people interested in training or working in ............ Australia.
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Thanks for that, a really "moderate " response!!
Don't flatter yourself Heliport, "Rotorheads" is not the only (or most important) source of rotary wing information in the industry.
....lets chat again in September '06 at my current striking rate.
Sincerely,
Jayfer
Don't flatter yourself Heliport, "Rotorheads" is not the only (or most important) source of rotary wing information in the industry.
....lets chat again in September '06 at my current striking rate.
Sincerely,
Jayfer
JOBS FOR OUR PILOTS
I would like to thank the Moderator for his astute observations about my efforts in pouring oil on troubled waters, caused by a previous run of really beyond the limit posts, many which have thankfully been removed. In regards to the flack the HAA has had in the past, I hope these few words to the younger pilots will be a boost and hopefully you will realise that people do care about your futures.
While I am the President of the HAA, (we are all volunteers), I will continue to promote the things I love dearly; the helicopter community. Before I proceed; and in regards to the sad postings over the past week. I must suggest people are people and there will always be differences and brawls. Fights, brawls and sniping are like pigeon **** on an aerofoil – just drag. But if we can only rise above this crap and see what is happening out there, then my desire for the younger pilots to get a better life may be a dream come true for myself and our supporters. Today, the trend is that our new members are coming from the younger ranks, which is a healthy sign. The mustering pilots have decided, as we were monitoring the blade problems on their behalf, that maybe we deserve a second look.
So what about the guy looking for a job, or a better job? Australia and New Zealand has 1,800 helicopters, about 200 more helicopters than Canada. To be fair, the Canadians have over double the money invested in their fleet which tends to be turbine or heavy turbine. But we fly 35% more hours, due to the 400 machines tied up in mustering or training. The Kiwis have a heap of single engine turbines, fewer pistons and twins. Kiwis probably have as much invested in helicopters as Australia; due to our large light piston fleet in Australia. Our rate of growth is double the respective GDP. Aeroplane guys are going backwards with only half the GDP growth. Aeroplane twins down 140% in ten years; angry palm trees twins up by 400% in this region in the same time.
I hope the young guys will observe that Australia now has 34 rescue bases and NZ 17! Oddly enough there is a shortage of drivers at the top end of the career ladder. “What about the low hour graduates”, critics will say with plenty of justification. Well the HAA is working with AOPA’s Bill Hamilton to get a handle on the fact that low hour drivers do not have any more prangs than the high hour “nut behind the wheel”. If we can find enough evidence, we hope to convince the aviation insurance providers to give the younger guys a go and lift the outdated rules about hours needed for employment.
So what is the HAA meddling with at present? In November the Australasian SAR/EMS operators met at Newcastle to discuss the recent deaths and near misses at night. About 65 turned up to the HAA event. Many were hurting having not long come from funerals. The Kiwis in particular wanted to meet again and discuss wider issues and thus an HAA Industry Conference was mooted and will be held 17-21 May at Sea World. This gathering in three sessions, will tie up the loose ends about night ops and make new recommendations, etc; have a good look at SAR/EMS issues, such as fire fighting and hoist cable failures and then the let tourist people have their first regional meeting. We gotta start somewhere and now is as good a time as ever!
As an aside, and as a scary observation, the Yanks have killed nine in three EMS night accidents since January. So we really need to take a deep breath and look at ourselves also. We must not scare away the medical system; otherwise patients will be carted around in taxis. And aircrew will be serving beer or waiting on tables.
But we must also look at the Asian expansion and be at Heli-Asia 2004. The HAA President has been appointed the civil chairperson of the civil workshops and in return the organisers have allowed the HAA space to promote our members. Why bother, some dimwits will say? Well China is growing at 12% pa and they need 1,100 emergency service machines by 2013. Now that the Chinese have freed up airspace and profits going out of the country, sales of 300 per year over ten years are now predicted. Well, before you reach for the TV remote and say this is all boring garbage, being beyond your intellectual capability, remember that China has only 130 civil helicopters at present and a very aged military fleet of about 600. All this for a population of one billion!!
Who is going to make and service and market these machines? What about the training of aircrew, ground crew and managers. Look at the enormous overseas facilities now established in this region for their airline trainees. Anyhow, the HAA is going to be there hooting and hollering for our members! My personal frustration are those the rabbits who take all the benefits and give nothing and then whinge! Geez a non-voting membership is only AUD$49.50. You probably spend more on a Friday night with your partner at a “cheap and cheerful” eating place. Why not give the HAA one feed a year. Maybe they can make things better for you so you can move closer to town and eat at a better eating establishment.
To really stretch the minds of the disbelievers, we have been offered a major role in the Australian Air Show 2005. It is proposed that the theme will not be airlines, military fast jets or helicopters for the grunts. In 2005 the Air Show will have civil helicopters as the drawcard. The HAA has leapt at this opportunity and will start work very soon on making this event a success. More helicopter sales means more jobs and more jobs means more training, more training means more instructors, more sales means more engineers, etc.
One last thought. We need to provide new pilots in number equivalent to 15% of the existing pilot roster each year. Why? Retirement, sickness, people moving to another field, etc, etc.. Also present in Australasia is the fortunate fact that our industry is growing at 7% pa. From 600 helicopters or so ten years ago to 1,200 machines now!
Now one last piece of the job jigsaw. A quiz question if you like. The average age of the industry pilot is 48 years, according to CASA. Now it should be 40 years. Thus a heap of old farts are wandering into retirement in the next decade when we are also expanding! Shortages will occur, unless the terrorists dream up some way of scaring away the tourist industry which is tagged as the next growth area.
Now an even worse figure is being tossed around. Some clown posing as a politician years ago said we don’t need apprentices, let’s send them all to university or technical college. So what is this big issue? The average age of an engineer is about 54 years, some says 57 years, depends on what report you read.
Today, engineers are being paid more than pilots in some companies and chief engineers can name their own price. Usually, more than the Chief Pilot. So maybe some of you drivers should look at going down the dual qualification road. At least you will never starve.
Food for thought??
I am heading off for a few weeks so keep your eye on the skid ball and rotor in the green,
Rob Rich
President
HAA
PS: As mentioned before, if you need any directories of OZ, NZ and PNG we can provide them for you. As an example, there are 1,200 helos in OZ used by 582 owners, including 264 commercial companies. Kiwis are about half of these. We have ‘em too if you need these also.
While I am the President of the HAA, (we are all volunteers), I will continue to promote the things I love dearly; the helicopter community. Before I proceed; and in regards to the sad postings over the past week. I must suggest people are people and there will always be differences and brawls. Fights, brawls and sniping are like pigeon **** on an aerofoil – just drag. But if we can only rise above this crap and see what is happening out there, then my desire for the younger pilots to get a better life may be a dream come true for myself and our supporters. Today, the trend is that our new members are coming from the younger ranks, which is a healthy sign. The mustering pilots have decided, as we were monitoring the blade problems on their behalf, that maybe we deserve a second look.
So what about the guy looking for a job, or a better job? Australia and New Zealand has 1,800 helicopters, about 200 more helicopters than Canada. To be fair, the Canadians have over double the money invested in their fleet which tends to be turbine or heavy turbine. But we fly 35% more hours, due to the 400 machines tied up in mustering or training. The Kiwis have a heap of single engine turbines, fewer pistons and twins. Kiwis probably have as much invested in helicopters as Australia; due to our large light piston fleet in Australia. Our rate of growth is double the respective GDP. Aeroplane guys are going backwards with only half the GDP growth. Aeroplane twins down 140% in ten years; angry palm trees twins up by 400% in this region in the same time.
I hope the young guys will observe that Australia now has 34 rescue bases and NZ 17! Oddly enough there is a shortage of drivers at the top end of the career ladder. “What about the low hour graduates”, critics will say with plenty of justification. Well the HAA is working with AOPA’s Bill Hamilton to get a handle on the fact that low hour drivers do not have any more prangs than the high hour “nut behind the wheel”. If we can find enough evidence, we hope to convince the aviation insurance providers to give the younger guys a go and lift the outdated rules about hours needed for employment.
So what is the HAA meddling with at present? In November the Australasian SAR/EMS operators met at Newcastle to discuss the recent deaths and near misses at night. About 65 turned up to the HAA event. Many were hurting having not long come from funerals. The Kiwis in particular wanted to meet again and discuss wider issues and thus an HAA Industry Conference was mooted and will be held 17-21 May at Sea World. This gathering in three sessions, will tie up the loose ends about night ops and make new recommendations, etc; have a good look at SAR/EMS issues, such as fire fighting and hoist cable failures and then the let tourist people have their first regional meeting. We gotta start somewhere and now is as good a time as ever!
As an aside, and as a scary observation, the Yanks have killed nine in three EMS night accidents since January. So we really need to take a deep breath and look at ourselves also. We must not scare away the medical system; otherwise patients will be carted around in taxis. And aircrew will be serving beer or waiting on tables.
But we must also look at the Asian expansion and be at Heli-Asia 2004. The HAA President has been appointed the civil chairperson of the civil workshops and in return the organisers have allowed the HAA space to promote our members. Why bother, some dimwits will say? Well China is growing at 12% pa and they need 1,100 emergency service machines by 2013. Now that the Chinese have freed up airspace and profits going out of the country, sales of 300 per year over ten years are now predicted. Well, before you reach for the TV remote and say this is all boring garbage, being beyond your intellectual capability, remember that China has only 130 civil helicopters at present and a very aged military fleet of about 600. All this for a population of one billion!!
Who is going to make and service and market these machines? What about the training of aircrew, ground crew and managers. Look at the enormous overseas facilities now established in this region for their airline trainees. Anyhow, the HAA is going to be there hooting and hollering for our members! My personal frustration are those the rabbits who take all the benefits and give nothing and then whinge! Geez a non-voting membership is only AUD$49.50. You probably spend more on a Friday night with your partner at a “cheap and cheerful” eating place. Why not give the HAA one feed a year. Maybe they can make things better for you so you can move closer to town and eat at a better eating establishment.
To really stretch the minds of the disbelievers, we have been offered a major role in the Australian Air Show 2005. It is proposed that the theme will not be airlines, military fast jets or helicopters for the grunts. In 2005 the Air Show will have civil helicopters as the drawcard. The HAA has leapt at this opportunity and will start work very soon on making this event a success. More helicopter sales means more jobs and more jobs means more training, more training means more instructors, more sales means more engineers, etc.
One last thought. We need to provide new pilots in number equivalent to 15% of the existing pilot roster each year. Why? Retirement, sickness, people moving to another field, etc, etc.. Also present in Australasia is the fortunate fact that our industry is growing at 7% pa. From 600 helicopters or so ten years ago to 1,200 machines now!
Now one last piece of the job jigsaw. A quiz question if you like. The average age of the industry pilot is 48 years, according to CASA. Now it should be 40 years. Thus a heap of old farts are wandering into retirement in the next decade when we are also expanding! Shortages will occur, unless the terrorists dream up some way of scaring away the tourist industry which is tagged as the next growth area.
Now an even worse figure is being tossed around. Some clown posing as a politician years ago said we don’t need apprentices, let’s send them all to university or technical college. So what is this big issue? The average age of an engineer is about 54 years, some says 57 years, depends on what report you read.
Today, engineers are being paid more than pilots in some companies and chief engineers can name their own price. Usually, more than the Chief Pilot. So maybe some of you drivers should look at going down the dual qualification road. At least you will never starve.
Food for thought??
I am heading off for a few weeks so keep your eye on the skid ball and rotor in the green,
Rob Rich
President
HAA
PS: As mentioned before, if you need any directories of OZ, NZ and PNG we can provide them for you. As an example, there are 1,200 helos in OZ used by 582 owners, including 264 commercial companies. Kiwis are about half of these. We have ‘em too if you need these also.
Join Date: Feb 2003
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With respect, Mr President, you do go on.
Saying the same thing and giving the same stats over and over in different posts isn't the way to impress people. People respect the Oz pilots here because they make good informed posts on all sorts of topics not because they give a sales pitch over and over.
PS
Your previous post was even worse before you or the Mods cut out loads of repetition.
Saying the same thing and giving the same stats over and over in different posts isn't the way to impress people. People respect the Oz pilots here because they make good informed posts on all sorts of topics not because they give a sales pitch over and over.
PS
Your previous post was even worse before you or the Mods cut out loads of repetition.
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Dr Mr Rich
I have to agree with Datcon.
If your ramblings truly represent the Australasian helicopter industry it is indeed in a sad and sorry state. If; as I partly know for sure and in any case prefer to believe, it is mostly populated by professional folk, do them a favour and step down, at least in the role as communications chief of HAA.
Yours, in all seriousness.
Dan Coughlan
I have to agree with Datcon.
If your ramblings truly represent the Australasian helicopter industry it is indeed in a sad and sorry state. If; as I partly know for sure and in any case prefer to believe, it is mostly populated by professional folk, do them a favour and step down, at least in the role as communications chief of HAA.
Yours, in all seriousness.
Dan Coughlan
Jobs in OZ
DATCON
Thanks for the feedback. Maybe you could give us a run down on the UK industry and where it is heading? Your trainees would love to hear where they will find work in five years or so?
Rob Rich
Thanks for the feedback. Maybe you could give us a run down on the UK industry and where it is heading? Your trainees would love to hear where they will find work in five years or so?
Rob Rich
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I agree... I live in both countries and would love a rundown on what the UK is doing on assisting low time pilots...I've just read The British Helicopter Advisory Board's "Purpose, Aims and Concerns"
Couldn't find anything there!
Kind regards,
Kopter
(Pilot who has been working in the industry for over 10 years)
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A quote I read today:
"The secret to happiness is making other people think they were the cause of it."
I don't know about you, but this has made me pause and consider several dealings I'm currently involved in, and how I might change them for the better.
I hope that whatever training people are getting, they are coming out with confidence and competence to represent our community to the highest possible standards.
May your skies be clear and your passengers calm!
SLC.
"The secret to happiness is making other people think they were the cause of it."
I don't know about you, but this has made me pause and consider several dealings I'm currently involved in, and how I might change them for the better.
I hope that whatever training people are getting, they are coming out with confidence and competence to represent our community to the highest possible standards.
May your skies be clear and your passengers calm!
SLC.