Becoming a Crewman, Winchman etc

[Fareastdriver]

Ts I know exacly what you mean. I had many years in China training pilots with my subordinates training rear crew for winching and under slung operations. Everything done IAW Royal Navy procedures. Everything was routine, no problem. It was fine when everything was going by the book but when things went pear-shaped you, as the captain had to sort it out because they did not know what to do. They had no basic discipline in aviation so they gave up. The Chinese are just as concerned about other peoples lives as we are but they were lost because they did not have the aviation expertise that a good crew should have.
We found that the ones we picked up from the street were the best after they had spent some considerable time in ops or passenger handling. Then they would go to loading and winch training. After some two years they would go on to public transport winching line training. Public Tranport Winching is slightly different, 10 foot winching with OEI Flyaway. Part of the couse was winching off the back of a supply boat at full chat. They were OK at that, not that we would have noticed because it wa a new experience for our Chinese pilots.
Because we were an English speaking technical organisatin we had university graduates in English and every technical subject that you could think of. Most of our pilots were ex PLA, predominately ex Marine. They were brought up in the fly by numbers envirionment where initiative was unknown. It took them a long time to accept that they had to follow instructions from a peasant in the back of the aircraft.
We cracked it! Just to changeover crews on tankers. Our earlier graduates are now running an SAR operation in Shanghai. At least two of the captains and one of the winchman I would give space for at Valley but they have had a long, 8 years, indoctrination..
I am not trying to put an oar into the UK situation but that is what I have experienced outside of the loop.

[Macaco Norte]

The winch op/winch man role could be learned by any individual who is prepared to accept what the role involves. No one is a natural fit although I would imagine the majority of RAF SAR rear crew came from the RAF loadie role and that would prove a great advantage. However, this experience will be gained given time. Cabin management is not a science in itself, underslinging doesn’t require a crewman, neither does landing the aircraft, they are both abilities that the majority of pilots acquire with experience.

[Thomas coupling]

Crab - I'm looking at two commendations for SAR, I taught rear crewmen their entire syllabii as they came thru OFT. I taught comonwealth aircrew SAR....Mmmmm?

So, let me get this right: weedy, scared paramedics need not apply eh?

Rearcrew lay their life on the line about as often as their pilots do. Certainly not everyday (Remember you only have to look at your log book to count how many times you actually ended up in that predicament) Listen, you're talking to someone who has been there and done that - even worse, we had a moving platform to contend with in horrendous sea states during takeoff and returned, often at night to the same moving deck - not your stable warm spacious crew room and airfield often with ILS, full runway lighting etc etc
Aircrewmen are not a special breed (my brother was one and as much as I love him, I keep telling him he's not special!!!).
What makes them stand out is their dedication to duty.

Most able bodied persons can be rear aircrew with the right training and right frame of mind. Don't delude yourself.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

this experience will be gained given time

This works for pilots, where a new co-pilot can observe the decision-making and actions of the rest of the crew before moving over to the RHS in due course. But seeing as there is (usually) only one RadOp/WinchOp and one Winchman on board at a time, they need to have sufficiently thorough training and testing (before they reach an operational unit) that they can cope on their own from Day One, and then enough continuation training to consolidate and refine their skills once they are on the strength of an op unit.

[Bertie Thruster]

I'm looking at two commendations for SAR

Hopefully your winchmen got something too. Or did you just dangle them out?

[Vie sans frontieres]

Thomas Coupling

Have you also swum the channel, climbed Everest and walked to the South Pole? Well done.

You're way off the mark in your last post in so many respects. If you're a pilot, what are you doing teaching rearcrew their entire syllabii? If you're ex-rearcrew, well you should know better.

[Wiretensioner]

Aaahhh. The ego's are getting bigger and more annoying. When was the last time any pilot did a triple lift with a Chinook without a crewman's help?

Is it not time to scrap this thread because all it seems to do is go round in ever bigger circles.

My take - Pilot's need crewman and crewman need pilots!

Wiretensioner

[vaibronco]

Co-pilot and Helicopter Hoist Operator

I was given the chance to get hired if I accepted to be co-pilot and HHO.
Our base does Mountain SAR / HEMS. I was trained in about 12 hours effective operations, a lot more of ground training and then went for operative missions. Very challenging, every mission teaches me something new. Every time a debriefing is held by all crews to improve operations.
My CPL was helpful in understanding my captain and the machine performance during all phases. Maintenance Staff Certificate helps as well, but I believe training is 90% of a HHO.
Medical staff are also trained and briefed periodically and we have on board an experienced Regional Mountain Rescuer, especially trained for helicopter operations.
Every morining there's a crew briefing, and so before each single mission.
Training is the key.

[[email protected]]

TC - I guess you must have worked with amateur wirestraighteners rather than professional winchmen I never realised you were such a hero How you managed to train the rearcrew from the pilots seat amazes me

The winchmen put their lives on the line every time they attach themselves to the cable and get winched out of the door - have you tried a space-walk in the mountains? That takes big cojones whichever way you look at it.

Physical strength is essential - have you ever tried to put someone in a strop in the water? Part technique but part brute strength.

[Edhullah]

SAR Winchman Training and Career Advice

Dear all,

My name is Ed and I am currently studying Paramedic Science as a Student Paramedic at Staffordshire University.

I have always had a very keen interest in fishing and powerboating, having got my certificates to be eligible to be a commercial skipper when I was 16.

Before going to university I was a volunteer for the local ambulance service as a first responder and whilst out fishing just off Caernarfon, we came across a vessel in distress with two divers suffering the bends. I assisted in giving oxygen and managing the patients lay flat on the deck of our RIB and the pair were winched off our boat by a Seaking from RAF Valleh on Anglesey. I have always had a keen interest in waterborne rescues, having applied to be in the RNLI after I turned 18.

This is where my questions begin:

- I was rejected from the RNLI as I am colourblind. Would this prevent me from being a Winchman?
- Would being a HPC Registered Paramedic be beneficial to applying?
- How would I enter training/career pathways?

It isn't something I intend to do immediately but I would love to have this career to strive to achieve!

Many thanks for any advice!!

Ed

[[email protected]]

Ed - the colour-blindness means you cannot be aircrew in the military and our rearcrew are all aircrew.

I don't know how the civilian SAR requirements would differ in this respect because they are not 'aircrew' in as much as they are not licensed. I'm sure one of them will answer that question on this thread.

[Bounce Bounce]

You will need a JAR Class 2 aviation medical and I have copied quote from there site.

Colour Vision

You will be tested for normal colour vision with Ishihara Test Plates. If you fail these you can still gain a Class 2 certificate, but it will be limited to flying by day only. This limitation can be removed if you pass the Colour Assessment and Diagnosis (CAD) test. If you wish to take this test, you should contact the CAA Medical Department, Gatwick, to get details of the nearest facilities to you.

[Tallsar]

.....and concurrently I advise you contact CHC SAR Services/Soteria (google them) who will advise you on your likely employment prospects as a paramedic on their UK (Interim Coast Guard...and maybe SAR-H soon) or Irish SAR contracts -for it is within these that you may have the opportunity if your medical category is acceptable to them.

[cbren1teenwinch]

Help?

Hiya,
I'm under 18 and thinkning of ideas for future jobs and I really want to become a winchman. I was just wondering if anyone had any tips because I have been searching for ages about how to get experiance. I am hopefully going to be helping out at my local RNLI station soon but I was wondering if any first aid courses would help towards gaining a job in parhaps coastguard SAR?
Any information would be really great, thanks

[chc-hummingbird]

Cbren

For starters, get as many medical background as you can to gain the best chances.
But remember, rearcrew is hired most of the times after the age of..............35.
All to do with life experience and .................common sense in the way more mature people think............exceptions can be made.
Young people on the job who will take more risk and danger to themselves is a factor that companies don't want and don't tolerate.
The first criteria as rearcrew will always be.....own safety first.....crew....AC.

At your age you will have the time on your side to do the background training which is needed, like Paramedic which will be more and more the entry level in the SAR world for rearcrew.

Good luck

[jn45672]

-

Good day all,
Its been a few months since this forum was opened up so not sure if anyones home.. but just wondering what the average/max age of becoming a winchman is usually at? (im 25), also apart from paramedics what kind of other qualifications would help me get into this line of work. (in UK/Eire)
Any replys apprectiated!!

[Art of flight]

The well trodden route is to serve some time with the military, then when they decide you're too old, you do the same job for a contractor. the spin off is that the contractor has a constant supply of experienced applicants, pays little for training and a lower salary to take advantage of your military pension! Very similar to air ambulance and police pilots!

very hard jobs to get in to without the pleasure of many years service with the military (in the UK at least).

Good luck

[shetlander]

Ab-initio Rearcrew Training

Hi All,

Out of interest are there any providers of ab-initio Winching courses/training in the UK?

I'm more scouting to see if there are any, in particular in relation to SAR rear crew opposed to Under slung load training.

Cheers folks.

[J.A.F.O.]

Auntie Betty runs one.

Aunty Betty's Winching School

[sightlesseyes]

JAFO - lovely, bit tired so clicked it twice thinking my browser was FUBAR'd

Shetlander - the only one I've heard of is Atlas Reed (search the forum there was a link a while back) which takes place in Britain and Germany. I'd imagine it's pricey but have no real idea of cost or entry requirements.