Moderator Here Thinks He's God
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Moderator Here Thinks He's God
I emailed one of the moderators asking him to look into a deletion of a post from someone else asking about the calendars I have started doing. Well the reply I was forwarded was a bloody insult.
He said that I was using the forum just to promote my magazine and mail order business (even though someone else made the original post). Yes I did put the second one on there saying we now had a web page re the calendar so that one is my fault.
But he then goes ahead and says that it is a long term problem that I use the forum ONLY for my benefit and since he was a publisher he knows that it would only cost me the price of a scan to advertise on their site. What an *******.
The original moderator (Helidrvr) was great, this new one thinks he is god. No doubt he will remove this post as well.
Time to go back to Just Helicopters. There may be some less than favourable people there but unless the post is profanity etc they let you speak your mind and have your say.
The moderators can keep PPRUNE.
[ 11 October 2001: Message edited by: helidrvr ]
He said that I was using the forum just to promote my magazine and mail order business (even though someone else made the original post). Yes I did put the second one on there saying we now had a web page re the calendar so that one is my fault.
But he then goes ahead and says that it is a long term problem that I use the forum ONLY for my benefit and since he was a publisher he knows that it would only cost me the price of a scan to advertise on their site. What an *******.
The original moderator (Helidrvr) was great, this new one thinks he is god. No doubt he will remove this post as well.
Time to go back to Just Helicopters. There may be some less than favourable people there but unless the post is profanity etc they let you speak your mind and have your say.
The moderators can keep PPRUNE.
[ 11 October 2001: Message edited by: helidrvr ]
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PacRotors,
I believe that you had this problem some months back and promised us all then that you would not contribute to this forum ever again. Perhaps you should try that one more time.
I believe that you had this problem some months back and promised us all then that you would not contribute to this forum ever again. Perhaps you should try that one more time.
PacRotors,
You seem to have been done a bit of an injustice; I've been away for a month or so, but your posts seem to be at least as much general-interest generating as promoting your magazine, so I can't see too much of a drama with them.
Keep on posting, I say.
You seem to have been done a bit of an injustice; I've been away for a month or so, but your posts seem to be at least as much general-interest generating as promoting your magazine, so I can't see too much of a drama with them.
Keep on posting, I say.
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Out of Balance, yeah maybe its time to finally call it quits here. They want their little pristine environment that everyone toes the line, then so be it.
Arm out the Window, thanks but not this time. Dictatorships seem to flourish here. I actually went back through all my postings out of curiosity and only a couple promote the magazine. I answered questions if people asked them about the magazine, so whats the harm in that.
Anyway, out of here and onward and upward.
Arm out the Window, thanks but not this time. Dictatorships seem to flourish here. I actually went back through all my postings out of curiosity and only a couple promote the magazine. I answered questions if people asked them about the magazine, so whats the harm in that.
Anyway, out of here and onward and upward.
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Being a relatively low time civvy CPL(H), I started reading PPRuNe to broaden my helicopter knowledge, and believe I have enough common sense to sift the genuine nuggets of info from the personality wars that can take place here. IMHO Pac Rotors would be a great loss to the PPRuNe communnity. Like so many walks of life it is who you know, and how many times do you see a post from Pac Rotors using one of his many contacts around the world to help.
And if it wasn't for the generous free sample offered then I would not be aware of an exellent dedicated mag, and lets face it those are few and far in the Helicopter world. It's not like there's a spam banner on every post. I'd guess the mag hasn't been mentioned anywhere near the number of times that Oxford is mention. So where do we stop, are you going to stop Nick posting in case it overly promotes Sikorsky. (Sorry Nick, first one that came to mind) I hope not because again excellent postings backed by a wealth of knowledge and experience.
I'll get off the soapbox now and retreat to my quiet corner.
And if it wasn't for the generous free sample offered then I would not be aware of an exellent dedicated mag, and lets face it those are few and far in the Helicopter world. It's not like there's a spam banner on every post. I'd guess the mag hasn't been mentioned anywhere near the number of times that Oxford is mention. So where do we stop, are you going to stop Nick posting in case it overly promotes Sikorsky. (Sorry Nick, first one that came to mind) I hope not because again excellent postings backed by a wealth of knowledge and experience.
I'll get off the soapbox now and retreat to my quiet corner.
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WOW a bit of scandal. Gotta say... you couldn't afford publicity like this. Must remember it for my marketing assignment.
I could feel the tremor of your feet banging on the island...very impressive. Tantrums always impress.
Don't ever take things personally, we'd all appreciate it if some pita was unduly promoting products and then the administrators culled unsolicited commercialisation (as they obviously thought they did here).
By the way, nice cumback helidrvr.
volpe
I could feel the tremor of your feet banging on the island...very impressive. Tantrums always impress.
Don't ever take things personally, we'd all appreciate it if some pita was unduly promoting products and then the administrators culled unsolicited commercialisation (as they obviously thought they did here).
By the way, nice cumback helidrvr.
volpe
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Pac Rotor
As Helidrvr has already made clear, neither of us had anything to do with the removal of your thread, nor were we consulted.
I took the view that even if it was a form of advertising on a minor scale, it was more than offset by the valuable and interesting contributions you regularly make to Rotorheads. But .... the powers that be obviously took a different view.
I understand your reaction, but I still hope you'll continue to make contributions. Remember, other Rotorheads value your input, and they had nothing to do with what happened.
Worth a thought?
Heliport
Joint Moderator
As Helidrvr has already made clear, neither of us had anything to do with the removal of your thread, nor were we consulted.
I took the view that even if it was a form of advertising on a minor scale, it was more than offset by the valuable and interesting contributions you regularly make to Rotorheads. But .... the powers that be obviously took a different view.
I understand your reaction, but I still hope you'll continue to make contributions. Remember, other Rotorheads value your input, and they had nothing to do with what happened.
Worth a thought?
Heliport
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Maybe if we just put this into context a bit.
My public email address gets about 40 pieces of spam per day. Without the commercially oriented rules, bulletin boards can quickly lose their appeal.
I agree that the Chief Pilots should have delegated this decision to the moderators here, but I do understand the spirit of why it was done.
IMHO, PacRotors is contributing to this group by informing us of an information source. He's no more guilty than someone who has their company's URL in their signature block.
Neville, don't leave. Include a posting when there is a development in your publication, just don't make it look like you're pushing the product (you're not now). If necessary, email any one of your supporters to post the information.
<<Edited to include the URL of my employer...they're hiring.>>
Thanks,
Matthew.
http://www.forces.ca
[ 11 October 2001: Message edited by: heedm ]
My public email address gets about 40 pieces of spam per day. Without the commercially oriented rules, bulletin boards can quickly lose their appeal.
I agree that the Chief Pilots should have delegated this decision to the moderators here, but I do understand the spirit of why it was done.
IMHO, PacRotors is contributing to this group by informing us of an information source. He's no more guilty than someone who has their company's URL in their signature block.
Neville, don't leave. Include a posting when there is a development in your publication, just don't make it look like you're pushing the product (you're not now). If necessary, email any one of your supporters to post the information.
<<Edited to include the URL of my employer...they're hiring.>>
Thanks,
Matthew.
http://www.forces.ca
[ 11 October 2001: Message edited by: heedm ]
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No disrespect, but as a long time user of bulletin boards outside this one, it has always been courtesy to ask if any shade of promotion is going on - this was so from the early days on the internet when you couldn't get on unless you knew somebody with an academic or similar account. In those days bandwidth was even more at a premium, and you were having to pay for downloads.
Nowadays a little promotion in the signature is acceptable, but otherwise I found Danny very approachable on this one.
Phil
Nowadays a little promotion in the signature is acceptable, but otherwise I found Danny very approachable on this one.
Phil
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Hi there, Rob Lloyd here.
Huddled here at the Godlike Towers we make absolutely no apologies for removing the two threads.
They were an editorial decision. Neville decides whether anything you write gets into his magazine - we do the same here.
Neville asks you pay for adverts in his magazine - especially if you are running a mail order enterprise.
The cost to advertise here for a month is $50 .
I will repeat that - $50 usd
That is for the whole site not just here. 35,000 readers per day. 100,000 individual readers per week.
I'll leave you to make your own estimates of how much he has laid out in postage sending out sample magazines. A month's advertising with us is less than the cost of a scan and cromalin proof of a single photo in his magazine - fact!
We have not edited or removed any of Neville's posts before.
We have not objected to him promoting his magazine for you to try.
We have not removed his criticism of our actions nor those of you sympathetic to his views.
We have allowed this despite seeing him in action on other forums over the years playing the same soft sell game.
We have seen the angry, vitupertive flame wars he has indulged in elsewhere. Even before PPRuNe was conceived and started 6 years ago we watched him in action on an American bulletin board. His actions and threatening posts are a matter of record and the moderators subjected to all this were Mal Gormley and Bob Peters, both highly respected editors on the very well known American magazine, AvWeek.
We have allowed him to operate here despite knowing it would be only a matter of time before there were tears and tantrums.
We refuse to act as a mail order outlet for his magazine - a commercial enterprise. He crossed the line and his advert was binned. Neville himself acknowledges that placing it was a mistake.
Despite removing adverts every single day from all over the site only Neville has seen fit to to call us gods and dictators. The two helo forum moderators have access to them in the admin forum and can confirm just how many businessmen recognise the promotional medium this site is. We won't allow cheapskate charlatans to ride on our backs for free.
The only time prior to this that Neville wrote to us was to ask for a free PacRotors forum here on PPRuNe.
Huh??
I'll run that one by you again: A commercial, for profit enterprise has a forum run for free by volunteers working in their own time using their own money to promote his magazine?
Neville Dawson is a superlative photographer - just you try running his shots in company promotional material or another magazine without credit or payment. He protects his hard won skills and investment like anyone else.
In turn our moderators have built this site up from a single, blank html page. Their own time, their own money for year after year. We protect their investment of skill, experience and sheer hard work from businessmen who want to take advantage for free not just on this forum but across the whole site.
Finally, nothing is black and white. You're all too well aware that there are two sides to every story.
I have alleged that we watched exactly the same thing happen elsewhere in the world of aviation bulletin boards. Very few of you will take the time to confirm the history of tantrums, insults and, most especially, threats with the AvWeek editors or through the exquisitely archived contents of their bulletin board.
Therefore I am taking the unprecedented step of publishing the only other letter we have received from our chum without comment:
I saw the ****ty message you sent to Helidrvr re myself and wanted to have the pleasure to tell you that you are not going to like the publicity you get in the next issue of my magazine.
We have tried to support the forum and the members but after your head up your ass comments the other day which Helidrvr showed me you can shove your forum up your ass.
Neville Dawson
Publisher - Pacific Rotors
P. S. You are about to see what freedom of the press means
[ 14 October 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]
Huddled here at the Godlike Towers we make absolutely no apologies for removing the two threads.
They were an editorial decision. Neville decides whether anything you write gets into his magazine - we do the same here.
Neville asks you pay for adverts in his magazine - especially if you are running a mail order enterprise.
The cost to advertise here for a month is $50 .
I will repeat that - $50 usd
That is for the whole site not just here. 35,000 readers per day. 100,000 individual readers per week.
I'll leave you to make your own estimates of how much he has laid out in postage sending out sample magazines. A month's advertising with us is less than the cost of a scan and cromalin proof of a single photo in his magazine - fact!
We have not edited or removed any of Neville's posts before.
We have not objected to him promoting his magazine for you to try.
We have not removed his criticism of our actions nor those of you sympathetic to his views.
We have allowed this despite seeing him in action on other forums over the years playing the same soft sell game.
We have seen the angry, vitupertive flame wars he has indulged in elsewhere. Even before PPRuNe was conceived and started 6 years ago we watched him in action on an American bulletin board. His actions and threatening posts are a matter of record and the moderators subjected to all this were Mal Gormley and Bob Peters, both highly respected editors on the very well known American magazine, AvWeek.
We have allowed him to operate here despite knowing it would be only a matter of time before there were tears and tantrums.
We refuse to act as a mail order outlet for his magazine - a commercial enterprise. He crossed the line and his advert was binned. Neville himself acknowledges that placing it was a mistake.
Despite removing adverts every single day from all over the site only Neville has seen fit to to call us gods and dictators. The two helo forum moderators have access to them in the admin forum and can confirm just how many businessmen recognise the promotional medium this site is. We won't allow cheapskate charlatans to ride on our backs for free.
The only time prior to this that Neville wrote to us was to ask for a free PacRotors forum here on PPRuNe.
Huh??
I'll run that one by you again: A commercial, for profit enterprise has a forum run for free by volunteers working in their own time using their own money to promote his magazine?
Neville Dawson is a superlative photographer - just you try running his shots in company promotional material or another magazine without credit or payment. He protects his hard won skills and investment like anyone else.
In turn our moderators have built this site up from a single, blank html page. Their own time, their own money for year after year. We protect their investment of skill, experience and sheer hard work from businessmen who want to take advantage for free not just on this forum but across the whole site.
Finally, nothing is black and white. You're all too well aware that there are two sides to every story.
I have alleged that we watched exactly the same thing happen elsewhere in the world of aviation bulletin boards. Very few of you will take the time to confirm the history of tantrums, insults and, most especially, threats with the AvWeek editors or through the exquisitely archived contents of their bulletin board.
Therefore I am taking the unprecedented step of publishing the only other letter we have received from our chum without comment:
I saw the ****ty message you sent to Helidrvr re myself and wanted to have the pleasure to tell you that you are not going to like the publicity you get in the next issue of my magazine.
We have tried to support the forum and the members but after your head up your ass comments the other day which Helidrvr showed me you can shove your forum up your ass.
Neville Dawson
Publisher - Pacific Rotors
P. S. You are about to see what freedom of the press means
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Very interesting that Mr Lloyd wants to bring up previous altercations with other forums and magazines. Rather than send me any emails to me they remain silent and say nothing.
There is always two sides to a story and according to Lloyds post I am always the bad guy, well maybe he should delve back into the correspondence and see what the issues were there.
Yes I get pissed off and so do many others but thats life, **** happens. If he wants to publish all the past happenings here then so be it and make me look like the perpertrator all the time. Obviously its time for the gloves to come off. For those that know me personally I was a very firey person and would fire back boots and all if wronged, however that was then this is now, I publish a magazine and have become much more professional. Obviously Mr Lloyd wants to drag up the past. Thats his decision. Many of us say things in the heat of the moment, sometimes we mean them and sometimes we dont.
Helidrvr, I would have let this drop but not now after he wants to drag up all the stuff from the past. Oh and by the way as he said it was years ago that it happened.
Again you guys can keep your forum. And for the record I requested a forum for Pacific Helicopter Operations and also one for the military fighter community so his accusations that I wanted a magazine forum are a load of crap.
With regards to advertising its not the cost that matters its whether I wanted to do it or not. Giving members free copies of the magazine is a lot better than letting them look at a website.
This whole thing started because someone, one of your members, asked about where they could get a calendar. Posting a private email sent to Pprune on the website, one sent in the heat of the moment is very very unprofessional.
Again, keep your forum and enjoy.
Pac Rotors
P.S. For those of you that know me you know the type of person I am now, for those that dont then make up your own minds.
There is always two sides to a story and according to Lloyds post I am always the bad guy, well maybe he should delve back into the correspondence and see what the issues were there.
Yes I get pissed off and so do many others but thats life, **** happens. If he wants to publish all the past happenings here then so be it and make me look like the perpertrator all the time. Obviously its time for the gloves to come off. For those that know me personally I was a very firey person and would fire back boots and all if wronged, however that was then this is now, I publish a magazine and have become much more professional. Obviously Mr Lloyd wants to drag up the past. Thats his decision. Many of us say things in the heat of the moment, sometimes we mean them and sometimes we dont.
Helidrvr, I would have let this drop but not now after he wants to drag up all the stuff from the past. Oh and by the way as he said it was years ago that it happened.
Again you guys can keep your forum. And for the record I requested a forum for Pacific Helicopter Operations and also one for the military fighter community so his accusations that I wanted a magazine forum are a load of crap.
With regards to advertising its not the cost that matters its whether I wanted to do it or not. Giving members free copies of the magazine is a lot better than letting them look at a website.
This whole thing started because someone, one of your members, asked about where they could get a calendar. Posting a private email sent to Pprune on the website, one sent in the heat of the moment is very very unprofessional.
Again, keep your forum and enjoy.
Pac Rotors
P.S. For those of you that know me you know the type of person I am now, for those that dont then make up your own minds.
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Pacrotors,
You say you were a very fiery person and would fire back boots and all, but now you're much more professional. Well I've never heard of you before, nor do I know any of the moderators and I only end found out about Pprune a few weeks ago, but it seems to me that you still need to calm down and act like a bit more of a professional. I enjoy these forums and appreciate the work that the moderators do for free to make their forums open to anyone from anywhere. Forums should be a place for people to discuss and air their views, whilst not advertising. If you have something interesting to contribute (and from what I'm seeing here in the replies, it seems that you often do), why not just act a bit more grown up, clean up your wounds and carry on contributing - after we're a small brotherhood and we need to find out what's going on in our little industry.
Please keep on contributing and let's bring this nastiness to an end.
To the moderators, please can we just drop the discussion and all kiss and make up?!
You say you were a very fiery person and would fire back boots and all, but now you're much more professional. Well I've never heard of you before, nor do I know any of the moderators and I only end found out about Pprune a few weeks ago, but it seems to me that you still need to calm down and act like a bit more of a professional. I enjoy these forums and appreciate the work that the moderators do for free to make their forums open to anyone from anywhere. Forums should be a place for people to discuss and air their views, whilst not advertising. If you have something interesting to contribute (and from what I'm seeing here in the replies, it seems that you often do), why not just act a bit more grown up, clean up your wounds and carry on contributing - after we're a small brotherhood and we need to find out what's going on in our little industry.
Please keep on contributing and let's bring this nastiness to an end.
To the moderators, please can we just drop the discussion and all kiss and make up?!
Avoid imitations
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Yes chaps, come on settle down now.
I think that publishing PacRotor's email was a little hasty and a little below the belt but then, Pac, as a professional publisher you really should know not to ever publish stuff that might come back and bite you.
Both sides have had their say and a little blood has been spilt on both sides but this argument should be canned asap. It now does nothing for anyone.
There. Hopefully a moderator moderated. Always wanted to do that....
Sad ShyT
I think that publishing PacRotor's email was a little hasty and a little below the belt but then, Pac, as a professional publisher you really should know not to ever publish stuff that might come back and bite you.
Both sides have had their say and a little blood has been spilt on both sides but this argument should be canned asap. It now does nothing for anyone.
There. Hopefully a moderator moderated. Always wanted to do that....
Sad ShyT
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Helidrivr,
I think you know the answer to that one, but thanks for the offer!
ShyT
I think you know the answer to that one, but thanks for the offer!
ShyT
