Mamouth Lifting Russian Heli
Senis Semper Fidelis
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Mamouth Lifting Russian Heli
Good morning Rotorheads,
Last evening the BBC showed a Huge Mil type Russian heli lifting a block of Ice with " Alledgedly" a Full Mamouth inside it, they commented that the block was Three tonnes heavier than the Helio should lift, but the Rooshians said "Well give it a go" they increased the speed of their engines or so we were told, Bingo extra three tonnes lifted. Can some one explain to us lesser mortals What the hell did they mean, for engine's increase should that have been torque, or do the Rooshians have no fear of things going wobbley, when overweight?
In light of recent happenings, should we all be fitting hard points to our R22's?
Last evening the BBC showed a Huge Mil type Russian heli lifting a block of Ice with " Alledgedly" a Full Mamouth inside it, they commented that the block was Three tonnes heavier than the Helio should lift, but the Rooshians said "Well give it a go" they increased the speed of their engines or so we were told, Bingo extra three tonnes lifted. Can some one explain to us lesser mortals What the hell did they mean, for engine's increase should that have been torque, or do the Rooshians have no fear of things going wobbley, when overweight?
In light of recent happenings, should we all be fitting hard points to our R22's?
Avoid imitations
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VFR,
1. Probably not.
2. No. A hard point would probably be the heaviest thing on the Robbo and put the aircraft overweight!
ShyT
1. Probably not.
2. No. A hard point would probably be the heaviest thing on the Robbo and put the aircraft overweight!
ShyT
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Vfrpilotpb
Two years ago, during a visit on a Finnish Air Force Unit, one of their pilots gave me a tour of the Mil Mi8. One of my questions was : " What are the limitations on the gear box ?". His reply was " We do not have any limitations on the gear box ". It appears that their gearboxes are built like tanks and can take quite a lot of power !!! If all their helicopters are designed with the same idea.....the sky is the limit.
[ 08 October 2001: Message edited by: Pat Gerard ]
Two years ago, during a visit on a Finnish Air Force Unit, one of their pilots gave me a tour of the Mil Mi8. One of my questions was : " What are the limitations on the gear box ?". His reply was " We do not have any limitations on the gear box ". It appears that their gearboxes are built like tanks and can take quite a lot of power !!! If all their helicopters are designed with the same idea.....the sky is the limit.
[ 08 October 2001: Message edited by: Pat Gerard ]
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Vfrpilotpb,
On many of their heavy lifters the engines are the limiting factor. The gearbox design,
(actually the torque transmission design)has more stepped inputs then western designs.
I seem to vaguely remember that they use five stepdowns for the mechanical transmission but could be wrong there.
And isn't the R22 some kind of weapons store? Fill it up with several thousand thumbtacks, attach it to a pylon and use it as a glide bomb?
On many of their heavy lifters the engines are the limiting factor. The gearbox design,
(actually the torque transmission design)has more stepped inputs then western designs.
I seem to vaguely remember that they use five stepdowns for the mechanical transmission but could be wrong there.
And isn't the R22 some kind of weapons store? Fill it up with several thousand thumbtacks, attach it to a pylon and use it as a glide bomb?
vfrpb,
I saw the same docco on the tellie and the machine was a Mil 8 or 17. Typically they are used for heavy lifts in the order of around 5000lbs. In Papua New Guinea they typically lift those weights at ISA + 20, so they are pretty hardy. As for lifting 3 times the mormal weight.....don't believe everything that a scientist digging the corroded remains of a furry elephant out of the frosen tundra of Russia tells you.
As for hardpoints on the R22. I have always wondered why we have 10 million dollar helos for recon and basic attack, when fundamentally the robbie can do the same work. Albeit in a VERY basic form. You sure can by alot of R22's for 10 million but they do lack a little armour
I saw the same docco on the tellie and the machine was a Mil 8 or 17. Typically they are used for heavy lifts in the order of around 5000lbs. In Papua New Guinea they typically lift those weights at ISA + 20, so they are pretty hardy. As for lifting 3 times the mormal weight.....don't believe everything that a scientist digging the corroded remains of a furry elephant out of the frosen tundra of Russia tells you.
As for hardpoints on the R22. I have always wondered why we have 10 million dollar helos for recon and basic attack, when fundamentally the robbie can do the same work. Albeit in a VERY basic form. You sure can by alot of R22's for 10 million but they do lack a little armour
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vfr man,
the documentary about this has aired many times on discovery, it was as the previous guy said a MIL 26, i cant remember the figures exactly, but they said the max weight to lift was 25 tonnes or so and they lifted with 28, there attitude seemed to be that they would have a go even though overweight,whether the torque, and TOT (T4 or whatever the russkis call it) was exceeded they didnt say,
there was a full mammoth inside it but without most of the head because it had fallen in the water and died with its head near the surface, so the head had rotted away and they stuck a couple of tusks on the ice block for effect, they just about lifted it out of the hole they had dug all around it and as soon as it was out they started to move to get translational lift, which as soon as they had got them airborne, several tonnes of fuel was burnt on the trip to the base so they were back in limits again for landing,
what i thought was remarkable was the excessive coning angle of the blades they had for the intial lift, the whole thing was pretty marginal, v.interesting though
the documentary about this has aired many times on discovery, it was as the previous guy said a MIL 26, i cant remember the figures exactly, but they said the max weight to lift was 25 tonnes or so and they lifted with 28, there attitude seemed to be that they would have a go even though overweight,whether the torque, and TOT (T4 or whatever the russkis call it) was exceeded they didnt say,
there was a full mammoth inside it but without most of the head because it had fallen in the water and died with its head near the surface, so the head had rotted away and they stuck a couple of tusks on the ice block for effect, they just about lifted it out of the hole they had dug all around it and as soon as it was out they started to move to get translational lift, which as soon as they had got them airborne, several tonnes of fuel was burnt on the trip to the base so they were back in limits again for landing,
what i thought was remarkable was the excessive coning angle of the blades they had for the intial lift, the whole thing was pretty marginal, v.interesting though
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Many years ago and in what seems now to be in another galaxy....I managed to get a ride in a Mil 26 which was in Papua New Guinea assisting with Oil pipeline and rig move work which was going on there.... well apart from tremendous load lift ability and prodigous fuel burn, loads of russky accented NOISE, cctv cameras everywhere and a pressurised crew cabin it was a very impressive machine....all that said I have no doubt that the crew lifted the overweight load very easily....with the OAT temps etc take the weight of the load, wait for a wind seed increase... and ifn it won't lift get the flight engineer to shovel on more coal.....! 
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The Russian stuff is ace. Built like brick outhouses, starts and flies in any weather and generally lifts more than it says it can, gets serviced by 2 men and a dog for 1500 hours then back to the factory.
Rather than our French cousins who generally need a hangar, lots of ground support, won't lift the skin off a rice pudding needs about 2 guys just to preflight it, a greenie and a grunt.
The other thing with the Russians is that they all get paid more or less the same Pilots and Engineers, though the pilots have to actually fly to make up they're money.
Wonder who has the right system............
Rather than our French cousins who generally need a hangar, lots of ground support, won't lift the skin off a rice pudding needs about 2 guys just to preflight it, a greenie and a grunt.
The other thing with the Russians is that they all get paid more or less the same Pilots and Engineers, though the pilots have to actually fly to make up they're money.
Wonder who has the right system............
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vfrpilotpb
Just saw the program on french TV.
Two years ago, as I was involved in the EH101 maturity program, we had to do some testing increasing the MAUW by one ton to 15600 KG. I have to say that the aircraft performed extremely well, even with OEI.
It is my belief that the aircraft could stand a lot more than just an extra ton.
As some of my friends are now in Canada, I could suggest they try to lift a mammoth in an ice cube....................
Just saw the program on french TV.
Two years ago, as I was involved in the EH101 maturity program, we had to do some testing increasing the MAUW by one ton to 15600 KG. I have to say that the aircraft performed extremely well, even with OEI.
It is my belief that the aircraft could stand a lot more than just an extra ton.
As some of my friends are now in Canada, I could suggest they try to lift a mammoth in an ice cube....................
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Im working in East Timor at the moment and have scammed a few rides on the MI-8's and the MI-26 here. The MI26 is awsome - it has about the same payload ability as a C130 and It is bloody amazing to see it do a sling load of a chock full shipping container. The ride is as smooth as silk as well. Also has these great porthole windows so that you can hang out the side of the aircraft and when you look up inside the pax area you can see the completely exposed tail rotor shaft spinning away - awsome machine. Pitty the pilots can barely speak a word of english - Im sure they have some great stories to tell.
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This really shows the fact that limits are rubbery things. While we might think that x tons was the limit, and that at 1.0001x the rotor will fall off, actually there is a play between the stress of an event and the number of times it is imposed. Most aircraft systems have considerable margin from a strength standpoint, and so a limited event (at 56,000 kg GW, what's a few tons among friends?) is possible, but not within published flight manual limits.
Test pilots help fly the aircraft to set the limits, and get to break the rules routinely during test, so we get to see the issues that result in the RFM limits.
Often, tail rotor authority sets hover weight limits (see the Super Puma thread above).
Test pilots help fly the aircraft to set the limits, and get to break the rules routinely during test, so we get to see the issues that result in the RFM limits.
Often, tail rotor authority sets hover weight limits (see the Super Puma thread above).
Stunty, you're right..... they have incredible stories to tell. Ten years ago I had the privilege to work with and befriend some Russian crews in Cambodia and Africa, and it was one of the highlights of my career...... even got to fly the Mi26 and 17 for a few laps. I got the impression that the crews, like the helicopters, were out to get the job done....but man could they let lose after the game.
A couple of years ago, I did certification of two western helicopters with the Russian Certification Authority. Their Chief Test Pilot was a guy named Yuri Zimin, and through his interpreter he related some incredible tales of life in the former USSR, from operational flying in the North to the Chernobyl accident. Would make an interesting book, or several of them. Spending time and working with these folks leaves you with a whole new respect for them.
A couple of years ago, I did certification of two western helicopters with the Russian Certification Authority. Their Chief Test Pilot was a guy named Yuri Zimin, and through his interpreter he related some incredible tales of life in the former USSR, from operational flying in the North to the Chernobyl accident. Would make an interesting book, or several of them. Spending time and working with these folks leaves you with a whole new respect for them.
I agree with stunty, CTD, etc. Those Ruskys have some incredible stories. I have also scammed a ride in a Mi26 in Cambodia in the cockpit, but no pole time. I have also worked with and under Kamov and Mil8/17. All are incredible machines. The Ruskies told me that a Kamov (with floats)ditched at sea off Vladivostok during ship to ship sling loads. All the crew got out, and aircraft was left in the sea. 3 weeks later the aircraft floated up on the beach, they popped a new trannie in, gave it a bit of a lube, and flew it home!!
That mammoth lift is well worth seeing if you can - great conning angles!
That mammoth lift is well worth seeing if you can - great conning angles!
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Ah Yes, memories! I too have scammed a lift in a Mi26. Have a video somewhere. Years ago it came off a boat in Townsville, was assembled and flew to Port Moresby. Did a few laps around the PNG capital as an "Guvmen offical". Had to laugh at the local fueller (used to squirting a sniff of Jet A into Bell 206 and Hughes 500's). When he asked the Russian how much fuel he wanted, the Russian said "Ve haf 14 tonnes plees!)
Mi 26 from memory:
APU 650 SHP
Engines 11,500 SHP times two (Lotarov? or something similar)
Tail rotor diameter = H500 main rotor diameter. Main tansimission looked like it was the final drive from the Queen Mary.
Pressurised cockpit (chemical warfare and Siberian extreme weather logging operations I was told).
Fully de-iced and smooth as silk. That coning angle had to be seen to be believed!!
They have an internal gantry arrangement (10 and 15 tonne capacity) to self load/unload internal cargo.
A few years later they sat one on its A#se while unloading when they forgot to put the pogo stick under the tail boom. Tail rotor exit stage left.
Mi 26 from memory:
APU 650 SHP
Engines 11,500 SHP times two (Lotarov? or something similar)
Tail rotor diameter = H500 main rotor diameter. Main tansimission looked like it was the final drive from the Queen Mary.
Pressurised cockpit (chemical warfare and Siberian extreme weather logging operations I was told).
Fully de-iced and smooth as silk. That coning angle had to be seen to be believed!!
They have an internal gantry arrangement (10 and 15 tonne capacity) to self load/unload internal cargo.
A few years later they sat one on its A#se while unloading when they forgot to put the pogo stick under the tail boom. Tail rotor exit stage left.
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To put this MI26 into some sort of perpective, can anyone give a comparison of sizes, against, say a Woca, I cannot envisage something that seems as big as this thing seems, looking at the last post before this? if it can take 14.00tonnes plus of fuel, this must be one big b$*tard of a Heli!
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The Mi 26 is the largest production helo, for the largest helo go here:
V-12
Too many technical problems to go into production apparently, but it did achieve some amazing lift records.
V-12
Too many technical problems to go into production apparently, but it did achieve some amazing lift records.
Whilst looking for some information I accidentally stumbled on these truly amazing shots involving a MI-26.
All these shots are at; http://users.skynet.be/willyboeykens/wbsiwt-eng.html
Also anyone interested in what the cockpit of one of these looks like; http://www.cockpits.pp.ru/MI-26.html
Not too often you see serious contrails from helicopters!
Divers exit the MI 26 helicopters, on 21.000ft to build a new worldrecord.
Anapa, Rusland '96
300 Skydivers exit the 4 MI 26 helicopters with a beautiful sunset, to build a new worldrecord.
Anapa, Russia '96
[ 06 November 2001: Message edited by: Cyclic Hotline ]
All these shots are at; http://users.skynet.be/willyboeykens/wbsiwt-eng.html
Also anyone interested in what the cockpit of one of these looks like; http://www.cockpits.pp.ru/MI-26.html
Not too often you see serious contrails from helicopters!
Divers exit the MI 26 helicopters, on 21.000ft to build a new worldrecord.
Anapa, Rusland '96
300 Skydivers exit the 4 MI 26 helicopters with a beautiful sunset, to build a new worldrecord.
Anapa, Russia '96
[ 06 November 2001: Message edited by: Cyclic Hotline ]