What was your scariest moment in a helicopter?
My experience lies in the 'outside the helicopter' arena.
I was learning to skydive in Cyprus in the mid 1970s, we dropped from a Beaver near Kingsfield airstrip, close to Dhekalia, where the Army Air Corps operated Bell 47s.
I was on my second descent of the day, at about 2000' when I heard a chopper and deduced it was below me. In those days we had round chutes which were not very manoeuverable and try as I might I couldn't turn the thing to look for the chopper, the noise of which was growing louder and louder. I was sure I was about to drop throught the rotors of this thing when the noise started to recede, I never saw it but I sometimes still hear it...
I was learning to skydive in Cyprus in the mid 1970s, we dropped from a Beaver near Kingsfield airstrip, close to Dhekalia, where the Army Air Corps operated Bell 47s.
I was on my second descent of the day, at about 2000' when I heard a chopper and deduced it was below me. In those days we had round chutes which were not very manoeuverable and try as I might I couldn't turn the thing to look for the chopper, the noise of which was growing louder and louder. I was sure I was about to drop throught the rotors of this thing when the noise started to recede, I never saw it but I sometimes still hear it...
Senis Semper Fidelis
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Whilst building up hours prior to passing my GFT, I was comming in to land, but I was not really focused on the job in hand, as I approached the outskirts of the field I was too high to come into the hover, I was wrong with the wind and for some reason my legs refused to do what I asked them too, in fact they operated in the wrong order, so there I was, nearly at a halt , 500ft from the ground and kicking the wrong pedals to stop this strange rotation that had started ever so slowly, I saw a panorama or trees, builings , coast line and horizons, but to my horror it started to go faster and faster what was descernable now became a kalidascope of coloured lines, yellow and blue of far off sand and sky was rapidly exchanged for green and brown lines now focused only in the middle of the screen, I suddenly thought " Oh ******" instinct and instant recall came back extremly very quickly, my feet found the right way to work again, I pushed forwards with the cyclic at the same time as dumping the collective, counted three out loud pulled back on the stick and fed in the power all the way to the top of its travel , and lo, it came to pass, the Lord didn't want me this time and I found myself comming into a gently flaring hover some 15 to 20 ft from the area that had seconds before been a green and brown blurred set of lines in my vision. I set the heli down, rested and trembled and sweated for the next 10 minutes, then lifted and hover taxied back to base.
This incident was my fault, I had not been fully focused on what I should have been doing, I feel very lucky to have had such an escape, I have flown many hours since that day, but I will always remember what it tastes like when you have completely ballsed it up!
This incident was my fault, I had not been fully focused on what I should have been doing, I feel very lucky to have had such an escape, I have flown many hours since that day, but I will always remember what it tastes like when you have completely ballsed it up!
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Tastes like chicken!
Late 80's polling Aloutte2's around Cyprus (doors off). Had front and rear seat pax in support of a Brigade exercise on the Akamus ranges (western most end of the Island). This is a long thin peninsula type landscape where the troops can only exercise along a steep ridge running north / south.
During this particular exercise (late September), the local "hunters" were out in their hoards and literally shooting at anything that moved - sparrows, finches, small unsuspecting creatures. They would then parade their catch on the bonnets / radio aerials of their cars. I believe it's a Mediterranean macho thing!
But I digress, back to the office. Scene then is self with two pax legging it tactically over the ridge west to east before nipping up the Turkish side to support the "enemy" company on the northern peninsula. Slow left hand turn over some rocks, lowered the lever and nosed down towards the sea when rear-talking ballast exclaimed, "I've been hit". Looked left and rear wards to see a small group of "hunters" hiding in some rocks just as the whole portside of the cockpit filled with buckshot.
There was buckshot everywhere - it had come in hitting everything, consul, and instruments, inside Perspex and ended up on the floor. My saving grace was my clear visor but my pax got most of what came in through the open space left by the missing door. There was nowhere to land either, I could see the black mass of buckshot on the cabin floor and expected the bits to end up in and under the floor. I had visions of control seizure at any moment, the Col. in the front had his face in his hands and the Adj in the back was beginning to moan a little louder. But there was still no where to put her down, there were only rocks, trees and cliffs. I had no option but to fly back over the ridge, back to the exercise LS and just pray the cyclic seals held.
It was the longest 2 1/2 minutes of my life (so far) but land we did and safely back at the LS.
What happened after is another story altogether.
During this particular exercise (late September), the local "hunters" were out in their hoards and literally shooting at anything that moved - sparrows, finches, small unsuspecting creatures. They would then parade their catch on the bonnets / radio aerials of their cars. I believe it's a Mediterranean macho thing!
But I digress, back to the office. Scene then is self with two pax legging it tactically over the ridge west to east before nipping up the Turkish side to support the "enemy" company on the northern peninsula. Slow left hand turn over some rocks, lowered the lever and nosed down towards the sea when rear-talking ballast exclaimed, "I've been hit". Looked left and rear wards to see a small group of "hunters" hiding in some rocks just as the whole portside of the cockpit filled with buckshot.
There was buckshot everywhere - it had come in hitting everything, consul, and instruments, inside Perspex and ended up on the floor. My saving grace was my clear visor but my pax got most of what came in through the open space left by the missing door. There was nowhere to land either, I could see the black mass of buckshot on the cabin floor and expected the bits to end up in and under the floor. I had visions of control seizure at any moment, the Col. in the front had his face in his hands and the Adj in the back was beginning to moan a little louder. But there was still no where to put her down, there were only rocks, trees and cliffs. I had no option but to fly back over the ridge, back to the exercise LS and just pray the cyclic seals held.
It was the longest 2 1/2 minutes of my life (so far) but land we did and safely back at the LS.
What happened after is another story altogether.
About 20 years ago offshore Sarawak in an SA330 Puma, FL50 nice and cool, smell of smoke; we both looked at each other then back to see the cabin already full of smoke with only the front few passengers visible, eyes like the South Park kids
and what was worse there was a dull orange glow from the rear of the cabin.
Into auto, strangely all the training fell into place... after about 3000ft the lights came on to show both MGB fan belts gone, so a fan seizure.... MGB temp visibly climbed off scale as the oil boiled but we got on to a barge a few miles off; if we'd been below 3000 we'd have been in the water. The funny thing in hindsight was that all the pax were clutching every single one of their belongings [including an umbrella which nearly ended my eyesight tests] as they piled out.
The fiery glow was the sunlight through the rear windows on the passengers' orange ear defenders....
The barge we landed on was called the Charley Graves so at least when we returned with newly fitted MGB we could say we were back from the Graves
and what was worse there was a dull orange glow from the rear of the cabin.Into auto, strangely all the training fell into place... after about 3000ft the lights came on to show both MGB fan belts gone, so a fan seizure.... MGB temp visibly climbed off scale as the oil boiled but we got on to a barge a few miles off; if we'd been below 3000 we'd have been in the water. The funny thing in hindsight was that all the pax were clutching every single one of their belongings [including an umbrella which nearly ended my eyesight tests] as they piled out.
The fiery glow was the sunlight through the rear windows on the passengers' orange ear defenders....
The barge we landed on was called the Charley Graves so at least when we returned with newly fitted MGB we could say we were back from the Graves
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aclark79,
I hate that, have had that happen to me a couple of times too, you would swear it was on ... of course better to treat it as an actual then to assume it is just lighting.
Has anyone else ever had something get caught on the mains?
I remember now a flight for my solo checkout with the chief pilot, and whilst coming into the flare, all of a sudden there was a racket like one had never heard before from the aircraft, rpm and other gauges were ok, no lights, I set down normally. we shut off the gov, and rolled down throttle.
We had picked up a Lays potato chip bag, a .5 pounder, funny how it was wrapped around the blade, not sliced, I suppose they really make 'em tough lately ...
I hate that, have had that happen to me a couple of times too, you would swear it was on ... of course better to treat it as an actual then to assume it is just lighting.
Has anyone else ever had something get caught on the mains?
I remember now a flight for my solo checkout with the chief pilot, and whilst coming into the flare, all of a sudden there was a racket like one had never heard before from the aircraft, rpm and other gauges were ok, no lights, I set down normally. we shut off the gov, and rolled down throttle.
We had picked up a Lays potato chip bag, a .5 pounder, funny how it was wrapped around the blade, not sliced, I suppose they really make 'em tough lately ...
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I can't claim this one, but a friend of mine was flying a 206 at about 800' AGL on a very windy day. A kid with a 1000' string was flying his kite as high as he possibly could. The park he was kite flying from was directly beneath Helicopter Route One.
Well, he flew into the string (no way to see that in a million years). The kite was ripped out of the kid's hand, and some of the string (not all) began to wind around the mast head. He said it made a hell of a racket with lots of vibrations.
So, he dumped the collective and did an auto into the park. After shutdown, they cut the string from the pitch links and checked for bent rods, etc. No visible damage, so they flew out and continued on. He's lucky that the controls didn't freeze on him (string might have binded up on pitch change links or something).
Well, he flew into the string (no way to see that in a million years). The kite was ripped out of the kid's hand, and some of the string (not all) began to wind around the mast head. He said it made a hell of a racket with lots of vibrations.
So, he dumped the collective and did an auto into the park. After shutdown, they cut the string from the pitch links and checked for bent rods, etc. No visible damage, so they flew out and continued on. He's lucky that the controls didn't freeze on him (string might have binded up on pitch change links or something).
Same sort of thing:
RAF sea king doing a hi line to a fishing trawler on fire.
The helo was drifting into and out of heavy smoke from the fwd end of the rolling boat. Bottom line: winch cable snapped (because the silly ******s onboard had tied the end of the hi line to the railings) and shot up into the rotors and wrapped itself round the rotor head
Pilot recovered the situation and they all survived!
I used to teach in a seaking simulator for a while for my sins. One of our lessons was on tail rotor problems.
A Norwegian SAR crew told me during one of their contract visits to the sim, that they were flying along one of their fjords at approx 600' once, and hit a hawser cables which was strung from side to side across the fjord.
It sliced clean thru their tail mast and took about 4 feet of airframe and the TR with it. In fact immediately after the bang, they started spinning and remembered seeing the tail rotor spinning as it went past them at the same height
They couldn't chop the throttles because of the G loading in the spin. Their only recollection was of dumping the lever and watching the world go round. The helo hit the water upright and they had enough time to get out before it sank!!
RAF sea king doing a hi line to a fishing trawler on fire.
The helo was drifting into and out of heavy smoke from the fwd end of the rolling boat. Bottom line: winch cable snapped (because the silly ******s onboard had tied the end of the hi line to the railings) and shot up into the rotors and wrapped itself round the rotor head
Pilot recovered the situation and they all survived!
I used to teach in a seaking simulator for a while for my sins. One of our lessons was on tail rotor problems.
A Norwegian SAR crew told me during one of their contract visits to the sim, that they were flying along one of their fjords at approx 600' once, and hit a hawser cables which was strung from side to side across the fjord.
It sliced clean thru their tail mast and took about 4 feet of airframe and the TR with it. In fact immediately after the bang, they started spinning and remembered seeing the tail rotor spinning as it went past them at the same height
They couldn't chop the throttles because of the G loading in the spin. Their only recollection was of dumping the lever and watching the world go round. The helo hit the water upright and they had enough time to get out before it sank!!
Seeing your own tail rotor whiz by....must be an indicator your day has taken a turn for the worst.....but at least it will memorable!
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As requested.
While conducting training on a new hire just prior to letting him loose on the customers I elected to give him one last surprise engine failure just at the limit of our range to reach the runway, so a max-range full-down in an R22. Unfortunately, at dusk.
As he drooped the rotor to '90' to extend the range everything looked good, then started sinking low. I looked across and he had all parameters perfect, so I let him continue. It was getting darkish, late dusk, so it was a little tough to see precisely the gauges on his side of the cockpit.
We were no longer going to make the runway so I took control to overshoot and figure out what he did wrong. I was still quite comfortable until I rolled on throttle and the engine only growled with insignificant acceleration. A little panicked I leaned over to look at the RRPM and saw he had been at 80 not 90! A sharp flare allowed the RRpm to increase sufficiently to get the engine back and I recovered in ground effect.
No more late in the day training flights where eyesight gets weak and fatigue dulls the senses. No more casual glances to confirm the students actions.
While conducting training on a new hire just prior to letting him loose on the customers I elected to give him one last surprise engine failure just at the limit of our range to reach the runway, so a max-range full-down in an R22. Unfortunately, at dusk.
As he drooped the rotor to '90' to extend the range everything looked good, then started sinking low. I looked across and he had all parameters perfect, so I let him continue. It was getting darkish, late dusk, so it was a little tough to see precisely the gauges on his side of the cockpit.
We were no longer going to make the runway so I took control to overshoot and figure out what he did wrong. I was still quite comfortable until I rolled on throttle and the engine only growled with insignificant acceleration. A little panicked I leaned over to look at the RRPM and saw he had been at 80 not 90! A sharp flare allowed the RRpm to increase sufficiently to get the engine back and I recovered in ground effect.
No more late in the day training flights where eyesight gets weak and fatigue dulls the senses. No more casual glances to confirm the students actions.
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April 2000 in a Jet-Banger flying through a narrow gorge on an overcast day with approx 1500' cloudbase. Aircraft in the cruise when the input shaft to the MR gearbox failed. Sudden yaw with loud noises and engine overspeed, even though the engine out warning (audio & light ) were on. Luckily saw the needles had split the "wrong" way and kept the throttle wide open.
Managed to put the helo down on a tiny bit of sand on the riverbank. All happened in a matter of seconds; felt like a lifetime.!
Only damage to the machine was a minor nick in the T/R driveshaft cover and one blade. Four on board and we all walked away.
Slung the machine out the next day with a Mil8
Verdict; All four bolts holding the gear that runs inside the splined shaft of the coupling had sheared due to heat fatigue. 9 hours since maintenance had worked on it and replaced the seal and allegedly re-greased it. My own eyes could see there was no grease in it and have the photos to prove it, however, and here's the scary part, the AMO concerned were like lawyers and bank managers....untouchable.
Another hard lesson learned
Managed to put the helo down on a tiny bit of sand on the riverbank. All happened in a matter of seconds; felt like a lifetime.!
Only damage to the machine was a minor nick in the T/R driveshaft cover and one blade. Four on board and we all walked away.
Slung the machine out the next day with a Mil8
Verdict; All four bolts holding the gear that runs inside the splined shaft of the coupling had sheared due to heat fatigue. 9 hours since maintenance had worked on it and replaced the seal and allegedly re-greased it. My own eyes could see there was no grease in it and have the photos to prove it, however, and here's the scary part, the AMO concerned were like lawyers and bank managers....untouchable.
Another hard lesson learned
Tokoloshe
Well done for getting it down, but..
If the engines not driving the gearbox, what good will keeping the throttle wide open do apart from trashing a perfectly serviceable engine ?
Apologies if this is a dumb question but, beats me !
Cheers
V.
Well done for getting it down, but..
If the engines not driving the gearbox, what good will keeping the throttle wide open do apart from trashing a perfectly serviceable engine ?
Apologies if this is a dumb question but, beats me !
Cheers
V.
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Nothing fancy (just stupid) . . . .
I almost hit a 400 thousand volt set of powerlines going at about 115 KTS, there were diagonal to a highway that I was overflying looking for a stolen truck, when I saw the wires out of the corner of my eye they were very close, (3 seconds away) I pulled back on the cyclic so fast and far back that the 206L4 went past vertical, and I just kept pulling the cyclic.
That was my scariest moment so far, and the sad thing was it was completely avoidable.
I almost hit a 400 thousand volt set of powerlines going at about 115 KTS, there were diagonal to a highway that I was overflying looking for a stolen truck, when I saw the wires out of the corner of my eye they were very close, (3 seconds away) I pulled back on the cyclic so fast and far back that the 206L4 went past vertical, and I just kept pulling the cyclic.
That was my scariest moment so far, and the sad thing was it was completely avoidable.
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VeeAny, the answer to your question " why did Tokoloshe leave the engine running" is quite simple. ....TailRotor Drive ! Without the Main Engine to Transmission Driveshaft, there is no other way to power the T/R than to leave the engine running. shutting down the engine in that situation would cause a T/R drive failure.
Well done Tokoloshe !!
Well done Tokoloshe !!
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I heard a tale about an instructional sortie at VRD in a Robbie. Apparently upon entering auto the student bottomed the left pedal and the Robbie done some sort of a roll. They say there was oil on the under side of the blades.
I dare say there was sh*t on the seats as well.
Heard another one happened like that in NZ but it supposedly broke off the droop stops and on rundown the blades contacted the boom.
I was told of these in good faith that they really did happen so perhaps the Robbies don't nip the mast as readily as we believe.
I dare say there was sh*t on the seats as well.
Heard another one happened like that in NZ but it supposedly broke off the droop stops and on rundown the blades contacted the boom.
I was told of these in good faith that they really did happen so perhaps the Robbies don't nip the mast as readily as we believe.
407 Driver:
The engine drives into the main Xmsn via the driveshaft that failed.
The Xmsn drives the tail rotor via a separate shaft that runs below the engine. The engine does not drive the tail rotor directly, or else every engine failure or practice auto is a tail rotor failure.
So, i agree with V-any : why leave it running?
The engine drives into the main Xmsn via the driveshaft that failed.
The Xmsn drives the tail rotor via a separate shaft that runs below the engine. The engine does not drive the tail rotor directly, or else every engine failure or practice auto is a tail rotor failure.
So, i agree with V-any : why leave it running?
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Ascend, you are very wrong.
We're talking a Jet-Banger, which I assume is a JetRanger or Bell 206. The engine to Transmission driveshaft drives forward to the Transmission, but also links rearward through the engine to the T/R drive. On a 206, there IS NO T/R drive output below the input like on a Bell medium.
I have about 10,000 hrs on 206's and I am a licenced AME M1. believe me, I am correct on this point!
Now if we're talking a 204/205/212, then there is no benifit to leaving the engine running in this situation, as the T/R output drive DOES come directly off of the transmission (lower).
In the case of a 206 practice autorotation, the Transmission (M/R)drives the T/R shaft rearward via the main driveshaft (now disconnected from the engine via the freewheel assy), directly to the T/R driveshaft.
In the case of his failure, the Autoratational energy of the M/R system could not power the T/R, because this fixed link (Txmsn to T/R ) was broken at the Main Driveshaft. The engine powered the T/R via positive power to the freewheel.
I stand by my word, He did the correct procedure, and did it well. Check with your maintenance department tomorrow 'ol boy
We're talking a Jet-Banger, which I assume is a JetRanger or Bell 206. The engine to Transmission driveshaft drives forward to the Transmission, but also links rearward through the engine to the T/R drive. On a 206, there IS NO T/R drive output below the input like on a Bell medium.
I have about 10,000 hrs on 206's and I am a licenced AME M1. believe me, I am correct on this point!
Now if we're talking a 204/205/212, then there is no benifit to leaving the engine running in this situation, as the T/R output drive DOES come directly off of the transmission (lower).
In the case of a 206 practice autorotation, the Transmission (M/R)drives the T/R shaft rearward via the main driveshaft (now disconnected from the engine via the freewheel assy), directly to the T/R driveshaft.
In the case of his failure, the Autoratational energy of the M/R system could not power the T/R, because this fixed link (Txmsn to T/R ) was broken at the Main Driveshaft. The engine powered the T/R via positive power to the freewheel.
I stand by my word, He did the correct procedure, and did it well. Check with your maintenance department tomorrow 'ol boy
Last edited by 407 Driver; 6th Nov 2003 at 12:01.
407 Driver
Thanks, you learn something new every day !
Sorry to go off thread, but in this circumstance how well will the governor control the RPM, will it prevent an overspeed or will engine require a serious looking at ?
Cheers
V.
Thanks, you learn something new every day !
Sorry to go off thread, but in this circumstance how well will the governor control the RPM, will it prevent an overspeed or will engine require a serious looking at ?
Cheers
V.
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Thanks guys!
For those of you who haven't been there, believe me it is very easy to discuss this scenario in the classroom but impossible to simulate in the aircraft. Also, the teletemps on the preflight showed no signs of overheating.
407 and others are quite correct that once the drive btw the mrgb and the engine fails then the only thing driving the tail is the engine, albeit at about idle rpm (when it eventually came back down).
For those of you wondering about the governor controlling the rpm; forget it, by the time I looked the rpm was going down through 120%. Bear in mind that at the time of failure the engine was sitting at a constant torque setting of about 70% in the cruise.
I stand corrected but in this case the Main rotor uses about 80% of the power; if you suddenly take that away the engine is going to overspeed even though the topping governor will try and limit it to 106% ?? . Remember the engine will have accelerated from 70% up at a fairly rapid rate and I assume the inertia will bunt it way past the limit. I don't know what the max rpm was that it attained.
It felt just like an engine failure with the yaw etc and the only clue I had was the needles having split the wrong way.
I had a fair bit of luck on my side but all credit must go to one of the check pilots who had exactly one week before done a base check on me where we had discussed this exact scenario.
I can still remeber his words " In 30 years of flying helos it has never happened to me and chances are it won't to you either"
Just proves again that training is the best safety device.
I can't remember who said it ; " Try to fly the aircraft as far into the crash as possible".
For those of you who haven't been there, believe me it is very easy to discuss this scenario in the classroom but impossible to simulate in the aircraft. Also, the teletemps on the preflight showed no signs of overheating.
407 and others are quite correct that once the drive btw the mrgb and the engine fails then the only thing driving the tail is the engine, albeit at about idle rpm (when it eventually came back down).
For those of you wondering about the governor controlling the rpm; forget it, by the time I looked the rpm was going down through 120%. Bear in mind that at the time of failure the engine was sitting at a constant torque setting of about 70% in the cruise.
I stand corrected but in this case the Main rotor uses about 80% of the power; if you suddenly take that away the engine is going to overspeed even though the topping governor will try and limit it to 106% ?? . Remember the engine will have accelerated from 70% up at a fairly rapid rate and I assume the inertia will bunt it way past the limit. I don't know what the max rpm was that it attained.
It felt just like an engine failure with the yaw etc and the only clue I had was the needles having split the wrong way.
I had a fair bit of luck on my side but all credit must go to one of the check pilots who had exactly one week before done a base check on me where we had discussed this exact scenario.
I can still remeber his words " In 30 years of flying helos it has never happened to me and chances are it won't to you either"
Just proves again that training is the best safety device.
I can't remember who said it ; " Try to fly the aircraft as far into the crash as possible".