Air Ambulance in UK
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Air Ambulance in UK
Good morning Rotorheads,
Just of late our local Air Ambulance operating out of EGNH, was called out 22 times over one particular week end, it seems mainly to RTA's, this service that we have in the UK is brilliant but whenever there is a large amount of flights/rescue's we almost always get the local press officers reminding us members of the public that it cost's mountains of cash to run the system, that is not in doubt, but can any of you connected with this service indicate whether or not any of this cost and expense is recovered from the insurers of the vehicles who are the unfortunates involved in the RTA's to which you attend with your HEMs Heli's, for if an ordinary ambulance or Hospital casuality dept are used they send an invoice to the registered owner of the vehicle or driver who then passes this onto his or her insurer who pay the amount without any quibble or complaint.
What happens in other parts of the world with this sort of service and costs?
[ 12 August 2001: Message edited by: Vfrpilotpb ]
Just of late our local Air Ambulance operating out of EGNH, was called out 22 times over one particular week end, it seems mainly to RTA's, this service that we have in the UK is brilliant but whenever there is a large amount of flights/rescue's we almost always get the local press officers reminding us members of the public that it cost's mountains of cash to run the system, that is not in doubt, but can any of you connected with this service indicate whether or not any of this cost and expense is recovered from the insurers of the vehicles who are the unfortunates involved in the RTA's to which you attend with your HEMs Heli's, for if an ordinary ambulance or Hospital casuality dept are used they send an invoice to the registered owner of the vehicle or driver who then passes this onto his or her insurer who pay the amount without any quibble or complaint.
What happens in other parts of the world with this sort of service and costs?
[ 12 August 2001: Message edited by: Vfrpilotpb ]
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Not sure about the charges being recovered from the insurer here - happens in the states - the medical insurance tends to pay hence the high number of ems services.
BUT, the charge you mention for rta or rtc as they are now called, is strictly a hospital charge for the a+e consultants treatment, although he may not actually ever see you. IT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE AMBULANCE SERVICE - even though we always get the blame for it!
SRPara!
BUT, the charge you mention for rta or rtc as they are now called, is strictly a hospital charge for the a+e consultants treatment, although he may not actually ever see you. IT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE AMBULANCE SERVICE - even though we always get the blame for it!
SRPara!
Hello VFR! how the hell are u? long time no speak!
Good point you raised re costs, we don't bill the victim for our services. Everything is free!! How long this goes on for is anybody's business!
I suspect that once or if major sponsorship wanes then this issue will have to be looked at seriously.
Perhaps, if you don't take out insurance in the future then we won't pick you up at scene!!!
PS: Christ this network has gone very heavy of late eh? what do you think VFR?
Keeping a watching brief.
Good point you raised re costs, we don't bill the victim for our services. Everything is free!! How long this goes on for is anybody's business!
I suspect that once or if major sponsorship wanes then this issue will have to be looked at seriously.
Perhaps, if you don't take out insurance in the future then we won't pick you up at scene!!!
PS: Christ this network has gone very heavy of late eh? what do you think VFR?
Keeping a watching brief.
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Hi TC,
I was only thinking about you last week, actually brushing up on the 206 and saw your name!, yes this thread recently has become a little bit of the class room type of feel about it, however those of us who are not really front row types are sitting at the back reading away, but must admit it makes very interesting reading, hope the world is Ok with you and your motocycles!
Thank you for your answer, the AA are saying that in 3 years or there abouts they will have pulled out from the support that they are giving, so the rescue managers and staff better not sit on their hands, get the strength of the insurers around em eh!
[ 12 August 2001: Message edited by: Vfrpilotpb ]
I was only thinking about you last week, actually brushing up on the 206 and saw your name!, yes this thread recently has become a little bit of the class room type of feel about it, however those of us who are not really front row types are sitting at the back reading away, but must admit it makes very interesting reading, hope the world is Ok with you and your motocycles!
Thank you for your answer, the AA are saying that in 3 years or there abouts they will have pulled out from the support that they are giving, so the rescue managers and staff better not sit on their hands, get the strength of the insurers around em eh!
[ 12 August 2001: Message edited by: Vfrpilotpb ]
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Er - I would imagine the cost of leaving the people to die (or at least taking longer to get 'em to hospital so needing more extensive treatment) would FAR FAR exceed the small cost of the air ambulance.
Personally, if I was involved in a smash-up then I'd want to get medical treatment by the fastest route possible.
Insurance, taxes, who cares how it's paid for. The cost of NOT having it would be far greater...
Personally, if I was involved in a smash-up then I'd want to get medical treatment by the fastest route possible.
Insurance, taxes, who cares how it's paid for. The cost of NOT having it would be far greater...
TCs comment about the loss of guaranteed sponsorship does indeed have implications; the air ambulance in question operates in an area where local A & E cover and ground ambulance response times are both pretty good.
I suspect you'd find that a large percentage of those 22 callouts were cancelled en route and I think that if funding is reduced they'll have to seriously rein in their policy of quick response to reported incidents and wait for requests from ground crews.
I suspect you'd find that a large percentage of those 22 callouts were cancelled en route and I think that if funding is reduced they'll have to seriously rein in their policy of quick response to reported incidents and wait for requests from ground crews.
Vfr, I am unsure how recent your information from the AA is, but last I heard from a very good source at the launch of the Anglian Air Ambulance within the last three months was that the new owners of the AA were planning to keep the level of support at its current level and [after a pause] plug the remaining gaps in the network.
I am aware that a few months earlier it was in doubt because the new owners of the AA [actually not that new now] had not posted their intentions....
Is there an update on that?
I am aware that a few months earlier it was in doubt because the new owners of the AA [actually not that new now] had not posted their intentions....
Is there an update on that?
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In the U.S. the insurance companies pay the transport fee primarily. The fall back to that is billing the individual for the service. We never check to see if the victim has insurance before pick up.
We have a fairly complex dispatch thread but the short of it is that the first responders (ground ambulance and fire units) are the ones to request us.
This means that a scene call close to an appropriate hospital (trauma level hospital) will most likely not be worked by an aircraft. The business end of this has evolved towards that end.
Likewise the trend is towards the air company handling the medical staff in house and the billing. This is still very much in evolution but for billing alone, having dedicated specialists that know all the ins and outs of the billing nightmare pays for itself many times over.
If the subsidies are going away look towards the providers that copy a proven method of doing it for job security.
Fly safe !
We have a fairly complex dispatch thread but the short of it is that the first responders (ground ambulance and fire units) are the ones to request us.
This means that a scene call close to an appropriate hospital (trauma level hospital) will most likely not be worked by an aircraft. The business end of this has evolved towards that end.
Likewise the trend is towards the air company handling the medical staff in house and the billing. This is still very much in evolution but for billing alone, having dedicated specialists that know all the ins and outs of the billing nightmare pays for itself many times over.
If the subsidies are going away look towards the providers that copy a proven method of doing it for job security.
Fly safe !
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Out of Balance......Hope this helps
Cornwall Bond Air Services
County Air Ambulance Bond Air Services
Devon Bond Air Services
Dorset & Somerset Bond Air Services
East Anglia Sterling Helicopters
Essex Bond Air Services
Kent Medical Aviation Services
Lincs and Notts Medical Aviation Services
London HEMS Virgin Executive Aviation
North East Medical Aviation Services
North West Bond Air Services
Scotland Bond Air Services
Thames Valley Sloane Helicopters
Wales Bond Air Services
West Yorkshire Medical Aviation Services
Cornwall Bond Air Services
County Air Ambulance Bond Air Services
Devon Bond Air Services
Dorset & Somerset Bond Air Services
East Anglia Sterling Helicopters
Essex Bond Air Services
Kent Medical Aviation Services
Lincs and Notts Medical Aviation Services
London HEMS Virgin Executive Aviation
North East Medical Aviation Services
North West Bond Air Services
Scotland Bond Air Services
Thames Valley Sloane Helicopters
Wales Bond Air Services
West Yorkshire Medical Aviation Services
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Good Rainy Morning
Droopy, According to our very local area rag the 22 call outs were indeed all attended
by the EGNH based Heli
Pan, the last AA advertising splurge that dropped on the door mat about 8 weeks ago made menton of the 3 year continued sponsorship of the HEMs Helis, with a question left to ponder what happens next, lets face it for any Coporate body to commit themselve to that level of financial sponsorship for little return except that of the odd advertising ( ask any bod in the street who pays for the Hems and I'll just bet a shilling they dont know) is very good and beyond the means of most firms without the High profile that would be demanded in return, Ala the Spoiler, good ole Dicky Branson !!
Droopy, According to our very local area rag the 22 call outs were indeed all attended
by the EGNH based Heli
Pan, the last AA advertising splurge that dropped on the door mat about 8 weeks ago made menton of the 3 year continued sponsorship of the HEMs Helis, with a question left to ponder what happens next, lets face it for any Coporate body to commit themselve to that level of financial sponsorship for little return except that of the odd advertising ( ask any bod in the street who pays for the Hems and I'll just bet a shilling they dont know) is very good and beyond the means of most firms without the High profile that would be demanded in return, Ala the Spoiler, good ole Dicky Branson !!
Vfr I understand your tack. This Corporate body thing always changes with the wind. For what it is worth [probably very little] the Corporate body has convinced its coal face workers that the NAAAS thing is worth supporting into the future.
Whether that decision will survive any financial problems that always hit such organisations from time to time [and I have no insider line here] remains to be seen.
The fact that most EMS heicopters are whizzing around with AA badges on does tend to provide a pretty good image for 'the fourth emergency service' as the AA like to see themselves and is probably far cheaper than advertising on TV or in the glossy magazines.
Perhaps you have to be horizontal on a stretcher to apreciate who sponsors the UK EMS!
The number of AA adverts on the box must be very low or maybe I am stuck on the BBC! Overall I reckon that even if they do not extend the scheme [and the Ulster requirement must be pretty urgent now as the Wessex h/c of 72 Squadron are due to pull out of the increasingly unsettled province in December] they are getting pretty good value.
Whether that decision will survive any financial problems that always hit such organisations from time to time [and I have no insider line here] remains to be seen.
The fact that most EMS heicopters are whizzing around with AA badges on does tend to provide a pretty good image for 'the fourth emergency service' as the AA like to see themselves and is probably far cheaper than advertising on TV or in the glossy magazines.
Perhaps you have to be horizontal on a stretcher to apreciate who sponsors the UK EMS!
The number of AA adverts on the box must be very low or maybe I am stuck on the BBC! Overall I reckon that even if they do not extend the scheme [and the Ulster requirement must be pretty urgent now as the Wessex h/c of 72 Squadron are due to pull out of the increasingly unsettled province in December] they are getting pretty good value.
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Pan,
Your dead right, most of what come's to pass is always to the detriment of some service or another, the problem is you never miss it till it's not there and you need it!
I suppose I am no different to any Joe public member, one of my sons broke his back in a Parasending (Bloody silly sport ) accident 18 months ago, he was left half way up a hill that was to steep to walk up, but the flight crew from EGNH got to him and got him to hosp PDQ, he is now well on the way to full movement again, but had that incident not happened I could never have seen me getting all my neighbours to join the Hems lottery or give regular donations to them, That is why I feel so able to want to speak up for them, it really is not some thing I want to keep for me or my family, it is the nesseccity for any person who needs that Golden Hour rescue, for that is the biggest potential saver of all injured or seriously ill human beings (anybody sell Halo's) but you'll know what I mean, it should be state funded not volunteered(getting of my horse now)
Your dead right, most of what come's to pass is always to the detriment of some service or another, the problem is you never miss it till it's not there and you need it!
I suppose I am no different to any Joe public member, one of my sons broke his back in a Parasending (Bloody silly sport ) accident 18 months ago, he was left half way up a hill that was to steep to walk up, but the flight crew from EGNH got to him and got him to hosp PDQ, he is now well on the way to full movement again, but had that incident not happened I could never have seen me getting all my neighbours to join the Hems lottery or give regular donations to them, That is why I feel so able to want to speak up for them, it really is not some thing I want to keep for me or my family, it is the nesseccity for any person who needs that Golden Hour rescue, for that is the biggest potential saver of all injured or seriously ill human beings (anybody sell Halo's) but you'll know what I mean, it should be state funded not volunteered(getting of my horse now)
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VFR and all,
I feel that in this day and age a National body should fork out. EMS coverage is Vital in this country - maybe Mr Brown should hand over some of his ill gotten gains??????
regards
FLIR.
I feel that in this day and age a National body should fork out. EMS coverage is Vital in this country - maybe Mr Brown should hand over some of his ill gotten gains??????
regards
FLIR.
In an uncertain world the problem with the government pumping lots of akkers into the EMS pot is that it may be just like the NHS itself - a bottomless pit that is inefficient because there are no constraints on what are now very dedicated people.
Returning to the Ulster HEMS it may yet be the political strictures placed on that future programme [a 'requirement' by the Nationalists that it start up jointly with Eire with a multi-aircraft launch] will take it from [English] AA grasp and require the pumping of public money into it. Once the dam is breached who knows what will happen to Government money.
Returning to the Ulster HEMS it may yet be the political strictures placed on that future programme [a 'requirement' by the Nationalists that it start up jointly with Eire with a multi-aircraft launch] will take it from [English] AA grasp and require the pumping of public money into it. Once the dam is breached who knows what will happen to Government money.
VFRpilotpb, you say that the AA gets little from its sponsorship. In our neck of the woods the "ambucopter" (as the locals call it) is entirely painted in AA yellow with AA chequered stripes and prominent AA badges. In fact I thought it was an AA vehicle! And virtually every time I drive home northbound on the A1 (along with thousands of other motorists), that AA chopper is parked on the other carriageway dealing with yet another accident.
Seems like good value advertising to me.
Seems like good value advertising to me.
