Bell 206: JetRanger and LongRanger
The back doors issue is a consideration for the OH-58 and I have had the back right door pop open in flight a couple of times. It only becomes evident on landing though and is a bit of a fright the first time it appears in your peripheral vision. I vaguely remember a lower VNE for one door only removed, or back door off in the Kiowa, but it was a while ago; current recce guys?
Gibbo
Gibbo
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Capn Notarious, the doors (like lots of other things on helis) are very light; and two of them are right under the rotor and on the CoG, so it wouldn't move whether they were there or not.
Gatvol
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Back to Gibbo. I can only guess, not being that much edjewcated, that flying with rear doors on, front doors off may give a bit of a problem; if you get out of trim and put some excessive air pressure in the back seat area......Probably would pop a door....
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I don't know what might cause the negative static stability - the effect of the airflow on the horizontal stab sounds plausible.
The point is that there is no such thing as 'control reversal', and that the whole thing is a carryover from a very lightweight Bell 206A model.
And yes, having front doors off, and flying out of trim has the possibility of doing strange things to the back doors. It also has the potential to do strange things to the static ports and upset the alitimeter.
The point is that there is no such thing as 'control reversal', and that the whole thing is a carryover from a very lightweight Bell 206A model.
And yes, having front doors off, and flying out of trim has the possibility of doing strange things to the back doors. It also has the potential to do strange things to the static ports and upset the alitimeter.
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"It also has the potential to do strange things to the static ports and upset the alitimeter."
Dam, Shawn..........Gonna have to check on that one, never look at the guages with the doors off, its too scary outside. ha ha
Dam, Shawn..........Gonna have to check on that one, never look at the guages with the doors off, its too scary outside. ha ha
It also has the potential to do strange things to the static ports and upset the alitimeter.
That's a new one on me: could you explain why? With the static ports for'd of the front doors, and an airflow dam around the aft end of the ports, how can doors off operations create a problem?
Having checked on many ocassions when the doors have been off, I've never seen any perceivable variations in any of the pressure instruments.
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Could it have anything to do with all the "trimming" that the civilian aircraft have not particuarly well secured throughout the aircraft ? as I'm flying these things in the hot, would appreciate 100kts with doors off.
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Regarding static ports - they are indeed just ahead of the doors, and I seem to remember it made about 100' difference in pressure altitude in the cruise from doors on.
Next time you fly with the doors off, have some put their hand out in the slipstream just behind the static ports - you'd be amazed at the 'bow wave' effect it will have.
Doors on or off, yawing the machine at speeds below 40 KIAS can drop the indicated airspeed to zero when you are still clearly moving at about the same velocity, as what were static ports become pitot ports.
Next time you fly with the doors off, have some put their hand out in the slipstream just behind the static ports - you'd be amazed at the 'bow wave' effect it will have.
Doors on or off, yawing the machine at speeds below 40 KIAS can drop the indicated airspeed to zero when you are still clearly moving at about the same velocity, as what were static ports become pitot ports.
Shawn dear fellow....we are talking Jetrangers here...whats a few hundred feet on the altimeter or whether the Airspeed indicator is off a bit....we are looking outside are we not? You want to experience unusual events...fly a Hughes 500E with no doors at 125 Knots....talking about wind noise and trim changes blowing things around!
Shawn,
Must take exception to your assertions about the static ports/doors off ops for the 206. Certainly
I'd be more surprised at why anyone would want to break their wrist doing such a thing 
Where does this have any connection with "normal" doors off operations, where the airflow around the static port would be much the same as doors on, since any turbulence/airflow disturbance would occur well aft of the ports?
Must take exception to your assertions about the static ports/doors off ops for the 206. Certainly
Next time you fly with the doors off, have some put their hand out in the slipstream just behind the static ports - you'd be amazed at the 'bow wave' effect it will have.
Where does this have any connection with "normal" doors off operations, where the airflow around the static port would be much the same as doors on, since any turbulence/airflow disturbance would occur well aft of the ports?
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John:
You would be surprised at how much effect things behind a static port can have.
SASless is right - we don't really care about what happens as we're flying VFR, and it may make a smidgen of difference on the IAS, but the important thing is that the presence / absence of the doors does have an effect.
Similarly, on the UH-1N and UH-1H, the wirestrike protection fin is close enough to the static port on the pitot/static head that with sideslip, the fin will affect the static port for about several knots of airspeed difference, and up to about 200 or more feet of altitude.
You would be surprised at how much effect things behind a static port can have.
SASless is right - we don't really care about what happens as we're flying VFR, and it may make a smidgen of difference on the IAS, but the important thing is that the presence / absence of the doors does have an effect.
Similarly, on the UH-1N and UH-1H, the wirestrike protection fin is close enough to the static port on the pitot/static head that with sideslip, the fin will affect the static port for about several knots of airspeed difference, and up to about 200 or more feet of altitude.
Shawn,
I would be more interested in the loss of climb rate caused by the absence of doors...along with increased fuel consumption as well. Those negative effects have more importance than instrument readings in my view. Not to mention seeing the bossfellah's expensive interior heading out the door (towards the tail rotor). Sticky paste and velcro particularly in the summer time can easily come unstuck at the most in-opportune time.
I would be more interested in the loss of climb rate caused by the absence of doors...along with increased fuel consumption as well. Those negative effects have more importance than instrument readings in my view. Not to mention seeing the bossfellah's expensive interior heading out the door (towards the tail rotor). Sticky paste and velcro particularly in the summer time can easily come unstuck at the most in-opportune time.
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Longranger L3 crash, South Africa
A Longranger engaged in power line work crashed near Vereeniging today, 6th April. The cause appears to be a cracked air line between the governor and Fuel control unit. No fatalities or injuries but the machine is badly damaged.
I'm looking for info on similar problems with that air line.
Another L3 did a forced landing some years ago. After talking to the factory we checked that the plastic clamps between the stainless steel pipes on the C30 engine were correct. Everything appeared normal. We did a Chadwick check on the tail rotor and MR, no unusual vibe. A new pipe was installed and the machine signed out. About 5 hours later the identical, new pie failed and we had another forced landing. Hours were spent looking for a high frequency vibration from anywhere, without sucess. Long story short, another pipe was installed and the engine is still going strong.
I want to get an idea of how common this is with the L3. Who else has had the problem. Hope to hear from you.
I'm looking for info on similar problems with that air line.
Another L3 did a forced landing some years ago. After talking to the factory we checked that the plastic clamps between the stainless steel pipes on the C30 engine were correct. Everything appeared normal. We did a Chadwick check on the tail rotor and MR, no unusual vibe. A new pipe was installed and the machine signed out. About 5 hours later the identical, new pie failed and we had another forced landing. Hours were spent looking for a high frequency vibration from anywhere, without sucess. Long story short, another pipe was installed and the engine is still going strong.
I want to get an idea of how common this is with the L3. Who else has had the problem. Hope to hear from you.