Bell 206 or EC120?

[B Sousa]

NTSB Identification: LAX05GA231
14 CFR Public Use
Accident occurred Wednesday, July 13, 2005 in Fair Oaks, CA
Aircraft: Eurocopter France EC120B, registration: N266SD
Injuries: 2 Fatal, 1 Serious.

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.

On July 13, 2005, about 1910 Pacific daylight time, an Eurocopter EC120B, N266SD, experienced a loss of engine power and collided with terrain near Fair Oaks, California. The Sacramento County Sheriff's Department was operating the public-use helicopter under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 91. The commercial pilot and the student pilot rated observer sustained fatal injuries, and the observer trainee sustained serious injuries. The helicopter sustained substantial damage. The local flight departed Mather, California. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan had been filed. The approximate global positioning system (GPS) coordinates of the primary wreckage were 38 degrees 38 minutes north latitude and 121 degrees 13 minutes west longitude.

About 1910, the pilot transmitted "Mayday, mayday, mayday, we're going down." Within minutes of the mayday call, several people reported that they had just witnessed a possible helicopter crash. Witnesses reported hearing a "popping" noise and observed flames and smoke emitting from the exhaust of the helicopter just prior to impact. A grass fire consumed the hillside just above the accident site.

The helicopter was reported to be flying over steep, hilly, terrain. It impacted near the bottom of a 60-degree sloped hillside and rolled on its side after coming to rest at the base of the hill.

Post accident examination revealed a total loss of the free turbine blades. The main rotor blades revealed low rotational energy at the time of impact.

[widgeon]

Having been in a past life involved in customizing police helicopters . I can tell you that the people who select the mission equipment often have little real appreciation of the weight they are adding. I must say the salesmen , who should know better do not always advise the customer well.
To compare apples to apples you should see how much useful mass ( above basic weight of minimum equipped aircraft plus pilot and fuel ) each helicopter can lift on a 20 deg day. Even though the 206B3 does not have crash attenuating seats ( that add about 200 Lbs to basic weight ) . That said the 120 has useful load 97 kg greater than 206 with c20B hover OGE at 2000 meters and isa +10 but 18 kg less at 2000 meters ISA +20 according to manufacturers charts ( in the marketing info ). The 206 manual does not list weight of crash attenuating seats , though I think they are fittted to the TH57 .

[chopperdr]

the san bernardino ships had a full load
- sx-16 and associated mount, jbox etc
- flir 7500, mount, dovetail,
- full radios pkg
- loud speakers
- crew kits
- mp-5

in other words, for 120, they were loaded.

[heliduck]

While we are on the subject I would appreciate some info from any operators which have experience based figures on the difference in operating costs betwen the EC120/B206. I'm more interested in the time-life components costs reduced to "per hour" rather than fuel etc. Thanks in advance.

[HorizonH]

B206 verses EC120

I'm curous how the EC120 measures up against the B206? How is the EC120 in the utility market? Can you longline out of it?

Thanks

[bayou06]

EC 120 vs B206

Speed: EC
Support: Bell (by a big margin)
Baggage: EC (but you sacrifice BIG on payload)
Reliabilty: Bell (by a big margin)
PAX comfort: EC

Our company (offshore operator) has grounded and getting rid of our EC 120s. Just too many problems for the pay off and are replacing them with B206Ls.

[gwelo shamwari]

I work a job where they used to fly the EC. The guys say that they loved the speed and the seats but hated the door handels falling off, or the fancy screens going blank, etc, then the aircraft being grounded for days as EC USA support was not quite up to it.

Ummmm, me thinks we work at the same shop... as where I work. EC120's are parked making fine birds nests and being replaced with sometimes nice and shiny new L4's.

TGZ

[RVDT]

I'll take the lot at 5 bucks each!

[WALLEY2]

Eurocopter 120b vs Bell Jetranger

Seeking advise on a purchase of a chopper for boat charter (need emergency floats)in the Kimberley Western Australia.

Main criteria
safety
initial cost
running costs
availibility of spares
Pax comfort
hovering capability
re-sale loss after 4 years

Particularly on safety I am unable to get a comprision. The rest is subjective so I would hope I can get advise from pilots who have flown both.

Cheers Mike

[eivissa]

I guess pax comfort isnt a subjective thing in this comparison. The EC120 is way more comfortable, roomier and quieter, but the initial costs will be higher, thats for sure and I am pretty sure the 206 is cheaper to run aswell.
From a pilots view I cant give you more advice, since I have only flown the 120 myself, but from the pax view I'd take the 120 anytime!
Havent heard much good stuff on eurocopter customer support, but afaik that depends mainly on the country you are operating in. Here in germany its great

cheers.

[Plakstift]

Mmm

Hi Mike.

I have flown both for many years (206 more so) and here's my 2 cents.

Safety: Both are extremely safe aircraft.

Initial cost: The EC120 is much more expensive. (Current market)

Running costs: The EC 120 is more expensive

Availability of spares: Bell has an excellent support program worldwide and
Many third party vendors also carry parts. Eurocopter have also been good for me but could be more spotty depending where you are just for the fact that there is a lot less 120s around...

Pax comfort: The EC 120, no questions. It does not even compare.

Hovering capability: depends on so many variables but all things being equal then it's the EC120.

Re-sale loss after 4 years: Again depends what you are comparing. There are so many 206s on the used market and also available for lease that I only flew older 206s. All the EC120 I have ever flown (3) were brand new as there are very few used one.

You can lease an older 206s for a song when compared to an EC120 and for many operators the 206 does a fine job for them. Like many newer helicopter, the EC120 does not make sense financially unless the client's operation procedures requires new equipment and are willing to pay for it.

Many times the will to upgrade to new equipments is there but when the operator shows the customer the numbers then the old stuff is suddenly much more attractive. That's why the Bell's, the Sikorsky 61 and all the other museum pieces are still flying.

If you can afford it or you have client willing to pay for it (make sure it is in writing) then the EC120 is the way to go, for anything else the 206 will do just fine.

[Bergboy]

We have had both here in the mountains, the 120 is just scary. At altitude the tail rotor has very low efficiancy. Yes the 120 has more power, but the tail just sucks it all up.
But yes at sea level, if I could afford it; give me a 120.

[ReverseFlight]

The EC120 is sweet to fly and has good autorotation characteristics but if there's one thing that drives me towards the Bell 206 and that's cracking plastic doors - almost every EC120 I have come into contact with has this problem.

The EC makes a hot girlfriend but the JR is like a trusted wife (or granny).

[Heliringer]

I've heard that the EC120 is a bit of a dog when in a Hot and Humid environment and the 206 will out perform it, is this true?

I really like the look of them but I have not ever had the chance to fly one

[FLY 7]

The EC120 is pretty, but I've also heard negative comments about the tail rotor being ineffective.

[Capt SFB]

G'day Mike,

As your operation will see some pretty high DA's, I reckon the 206 may be the go. In my experience the 120, although a very nice, comfortable aircraft, doesn't like it hot !! You will see the yellow line under the Ng a lot if you try to load it up with either pax or fuel, you wont get off the ground with both if it's over 35 degrees out. It's a typical European design, fine in temperate climes. Ask about a bit about EC's (and Turbomeca's) service, parts availability and general attitude about remote area operators too.......

Cheers,
Capt

[HillerBee]

The Fenestron on the EC120 is very effective, when you fly the aircraft within it's limits (W&B). I fly it regularly in up to 45 knots of wind and have no problems even with hovering downwind or cross wind.

LTE with a Jetranger is a much bigger problem.

[Mr snakey]

were can i look to buy a jetranger or a 120b

can some one tell me were to look for ajet ranger or eurocopter 120b i have looked on av buyer please help or if some one is selling .thanks

[BlenderPilot]

LTE with a Jetranger is a much bigger problem.

I would disagree very much, the Long Ranger's III and IV might have problem with lack of tail rotor authority for the power their engines provide, especially at altitude. They do run out of pedal, fancy name "LTE". Those last two under certain circumstances will start spinning while taking off to a hover with the silghtest wind from the wrong side if you are not thinking about Weight, Temp, Altitude and of course, wind.

But the Jet Ranger with the less powerful engine that it has, I would say that it has adequate tail rotor authority. Unless you are not smart, careful or are inexperienced, then you can get yourself into a tight spot by not watching where the wind is coming from. But I wouldn't say it has less pedal authority than most helicopters considering the Power vs. Tail Rotor authority. I know it's just a 17 knot Tail Rotor, but it has also not too much power.

If you fly a Jet Ranger and run out of pedal, it's not really LTE, it's that you are not thinking about the way you are doing things and you are getting sloppy.

Even the Agusta 109E Power runs out of pedal under certain circumstances if you are not careful, the only helicopters that I have flown that seems to have tremendous TR authority are the Bell 407 and the B3, they are almost foolproof, and, in most cases hold the nose where you want it.

Now as for the 120 vs. 206 dillema, just a fact, the 206 will out perform the 120 at Hot and High conditions any day, it will also be cheaper to purchase and operate, and probably give you a bigger operational safety margin as far as single engines go.

The 120 will be much quieter, and more confortable, prettier too.

I fly for the Mexico City police and on hot days, like today, the EC120 will not even attempt to take off with more than 30 mins fuel and two on board from a flat area, then we in a 30 year old 206 can take 3 on board from a confined area with a almost 50 mins worth of fuel. DA today was at times above 10K

[TangoMikeYankee]

Mike,

Have you looked at a Eurocopter AS350BA?
I know the running cost is more than the 206, but you have one to two extra seats.
Australian Aerospace(Eurocopter) backup is good in Aus. Lots of spare parts around for Squirrels.

Are you operating a 206 now?

Cheers
Tim