Bell 212
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
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You can get the 412 manual from http://64.34.169.161/cgi-bin/ifolio/...nloads/Manuals - working on an electronic copy of the 212 - watch this space....
Phil
Phil
Join Date: Apr 2006
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info
By the way if anyone is interested, I'm the pilot that had the mast separation in flight back in 2000. I wouldn't say that I was seriously injured, but was beaten up better good. The final results were that bell screwed up when they made the mast, but would not take the blame for what had happened.
I'm back flying again, a 205 for a american company and still loving it. I actually was back flying two mouth to the day, but took me a little longer to get back to my old self.
Cheers
I'm back flying again, a 205 for a american company and still loving it. I actually was back flying two mouth to the day, but took me a little longer to get back to my old self.
Cheers
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
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Well, it's steam driven 
I heard that the term originally referred to Hueys in Vietnam, and one possibility is:
"Bell originally was in the business of building Steam Locomotives. Helicopters came at a later date. In SEA some of the Heuys had amour plating on the lower section, also referred to as "Chicken Plates". Hence the name Steam Chicken. That and the fact that there was "steam" vapour (vapor for TQN) coming out the breather."
But this is from a senior Canadian pilot:
"UH-1 = Huey = cartoon Character "Baby Huey" ( Was a large, tubby chicken ) + 205 kinda sounds like a steam engine from far away and breather pumps puffs of smoke outa the exhaust = "Steam Chicken."
And another:
"Steam chicken refers to the civilan 212 and comes from the engineering fraternity."
Take your pick!
Phil
I heard that the term originally referred to Hueys in Vietnam, and one possibility is:"Bell originally was in the business of building Steam Locomotives. Helicopters came at a later date. In SEA some of the Heuys had amour plating on the lower section, also referred to as "Chicken Plates". Hence the name Steam Chicken. That and the fact that there was "steam" vapour (vapor for TQN) coming out the breather."
But this is from a senior Canadian pilot:
"UH-1 = Huey = cartoon Character "Baby Huey" ( Was a large, tubby chicken ) + 205 kinda sounds like a steam engine from far away and breather pumps puffs of smoke outa the exhaust = "Steam Chicken."
And another:
"Steam chicken refers to the civilan 212 and comes from the engineering fraternity."
Take your pick!
Phil
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Switzerland
Age: 60
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B 212 Logging?
Hello everybody,
I'm new on this forum.
I am fliyng vertical reference in the Switzerland and I am looking to find anybody which could give me informations about the B 212HP.
How it does perform in external load operations?
How much does it lift?
I'm new on this forum.
I am fliyng vertical reference in the Switzerland and I am looking to find anybody which could give me informations about the B 212HP.
How it does perform in external load operations?
How much does it lift?
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
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The Royal Brunei Air Force certainly found the Sperry system to be superb. Unfortunately they (the Sperry systems...) are now obsolete.
I was the avionics tech boss at a well known Singapore based Bell Agent. The RBMR would use us for various work and they were frequent visitors. They must have got a little tired of me beating their heads on aircraft standardisation, and fitting some decent (non Brit Military!) kit. One morning I got a call from the engineering boss (RAF) asking if he could come over to Singapore and meet the next day - he wanted to talk avionics.
He arrived as planned and, over a coffee, he asked me one question. If we were to give you a blank cheque - how would you equip half a dozen new 212s.
Wow! Dream Time.
But a simple answer - You pop across to the Flying Club for lunch and Ill see you there in half an hour with a list. I went through the whole package with the latest and greatest from the US military, FM/VHF/UHF Comms, HF Comms, DME, RadAlt, Transponder (Brit Mil I have to say) - the works. I finished the list and sat back and thought about it. Lets go for broke - how about the new Sperry Autopilot. Why not - and in it went. Two days later I get another call. Everything was accepted! .. with one proviso. They needed to fly the autopilot before buying. The only place to do that, or next best thing, was Fort Worth with a 412 and then to Phoenix to meet Sperry with their Aerospat demonstrator. Within three weeks wed done both and it was a done deal.
A Sperry autopilot fit had never been done outside of the US - but what the hell it cant be that difficult. And so I thought - until I saw the wiring harnesses laid out on plastic sheet on the hangar floor! But the job was done, and on time. The day came for the first test flight, with the Sperry test pilot, and off we went. The whole nine yards - including fully coupled ILS approaches to Changi. Zero defects .
What a peach of a system that was beautiful. No doubt one or two of that era will recognise the world famous Sperry TP, below. Happy Days! By gum we ad some fun. ( Maybe this should be in Aviation History & Nostalgia.)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: South Africa
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212 info?
Hi all,
Just wondering i heard of a job flying 212's, I havent been able to get much gen on the machine, but just in general how well maintained(also age wise) are they, how many civilian machines are available for purchase, are they worth while to buy and so on?
Thanks
Just wondering i heard of a job flying 212's, I havent been able to get much gen on the machine, but just in general how well maintained(also age wise) are they, how many civilian machines are available for purchase, are they worth while to buy and so on?
Thanks
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Goose Bay
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Bell 212
I wonder if anyone out there can suggest where I can find out information regarding operating costs for a bell 212 .I am looking for a 212 in a utility configuration to use for aerial work both here in the UK and possibly for some contract work in Spain .Any info on the 212 would be helpfull ,many thanks.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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According to Conklin & deDecker, Fall 2006 edition, using $2.75/Gallon fuel cost and $70/hour maintenance labor, the 212 costs $902.69/hour (USD) to operate.
Breaking that out ...
Fuel $272.25
Lubricants $8.17
Maintenance Labor $144.90
Parts Airframe / Engine / Avionics $135.83
Engine Restoration $204.97
Dynamic Components / Life Limited Parts $136.57
Tompkins
Breaking that out ...
Fuel $272.25
Lubricants $8.17
Maintenance Labor $144.90
Parts Airframe / Engine / Avionics $135.83
Engine Restoration $204.97
Dynamic Components / Life Limited Parts $136.57
Tompkins
Join Date: May 2000
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jetbox,
AFAIK the only Bell 212 in the UK is operated by FB Heliservices out of Middle Wallop.
Try www.FBHeliservices.com
Taff
AFAIK the only Bell 212 in the UK is operated by FB Heliservices out of Middle Wallop.
Try www.FBHeliservices.com
Taff
Join Date: May 2007
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Bell 212
I wonder if anyone can suggest a training school or helicopter company who carry out Bell 212 type training.I have a Canadian and a FAA licence and am looking to do the training either in Canada or the US,and any idea as to cost?
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Jetbox,
The only school I know of that holds itself out to the public is Flight Safety in Hurst, TX. I am not totally sure of their certifications, but it has been my experience they are generally accepted by most authorities. You will need to communicate with them on their certifications and requirements.
The only school I know of that holds itself out to the public is Flight Safety in Hurst, TX. I am not totally sure of their certifications, but it has been my experience they are generally accepted by most authorities. You will need to communicate with them on their certifications and requirements.
Hi jetbox,
why donīt visit good old germany, make a vacation and do a little bit of flying?
http://www.agrarflug-helilift.com/
They have a flight school and a big fleet, including 205, 212 and 412.
Greetings Flying Bull
why donīt visit good old germany, make a vacation and do a little bit of flying?
http://www.agrarflug-helilift.com/
They have a flight school and a big fleet, including 205, 212 and 412.
Greetings Flying Bull
Join Date: May 2005
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Flight Safety in Hurst, TX B212
The FSI course is a sim based course around $23.000 with 9 hrs simulator and good, technical ok and notes not as good as the new stuff coming through. However as we know AC hours are best. If you want a type rating and build hours on the series B212/412 then maybe a lost two years in the ME and I expect around 1,200 hrs on type (normal bond period) may be worth thinking about and could be an option. Costs per hr for the series AC in the commercial market with no revenue well, name your price. I guess $2,500 per hr minimum and UP.I have experience of up to $5,500 per hr.
Outhouse.
Outhouse.
Outhouse.
Outhouse.
Join Date: May 2007
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Thanks for all the suggestions regarding 212 training .I think the school in Germany sounds well worth a try.At the moment the Canadian companies I have spoken to range from Ģ1200 to Ģ2200 per hour.I will also like to look into working in the ME as suggested by outhouse.
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Bell 212. How do you calculate hover power (or torque) required given the WAT?
Hi All,
I am new to the Bell 212 and I must say she is a wonderful bird to fly. New to this forum too, so hope I'm not committing any syntax error or one of etiquettes on this post.
I have some flying in the Military, and we had all been used to a wonderful graph that told us what would be the hover collective pitch required (or hover torque depending on the type) for a given set of conditions (WAT). You guessed it right, I was flying the Alouette first and also have some experience on the Euro oriented machines.
The Bell 212 Manual, somehow doesn't seem to have this type of graph. I recently had a case where the folks on the platform measured the load in Kg and passed it to me without specifying it wasn't in Lbs. Fortunately the wind was about 25 kts offshore, so it wasn't an issue, but I did feel the torque required to hover on deck was a wee bit more than I was used to for a similar load. The actual load of course was weighed in my presence on landing, which is
The question is, here, that I do not have a ready reference to tell me in the cockpit what is my AUW for that particular torque (and vice versa). Temperatures here ordinarily range in the mid 30s so it really is an issue. In the trusty old Alouette, one could work backwards from the hover power, temp and also the wind, what exactly the weight of the helicopter was. No luck in any document I looked into for the 212. Would be grateful for any information, and also any logic why this has not been included in the basic RFM please.
I also read in a post by Rotorbike on 23 May 02, that the allowable load reduces to just 10280 at 38 degrees. Now, is that IGE or OGE, TOP or MCP, Cat A or not, and is it for offshore or onshore? Can anyone help
Also interesting was the discussion on OEI while coming in to land. I survive to tell the tale and so does the whirlybird. That would be a topic for another post, of course
I am new to the Bell 212 and I must say she is a wonderful bird to fly. New to this forum too, so hope I'm not committing any syntax error or one of etiquettes on this post.
I have some flying in the Military, and we had all been used to a wonderful graph that told us what would be the hover collective pitch required (or hover torque depending on the type) for a given set of conditions (WAT). You guessed it right, I was flying the Alouette first and also have some experience on the Euro oriented machines.
The Bell 212 Manual, somehow doesn't seem to have this type of graph. I recently had a case where the folks on the platform measured the load in Kg and passed it to me without specifying it wasn't in Lbs. Fortunately the wind was about 25 kts offshore, so it wasn't an issue, but I did feel the torque required to hover on deck was a wee bit more than I was used to for a similar load. The actual load of course was weighed in my presence on landing, which is
The question is, here, that I do not have a ready reference to tell me in the cockpit what is my AUW for that particular torque (and vice versa). Temperatures here ordinarily range in the mid 30s so it really is an issue. In the trusty old Alouette, one could work backwards from the hover power, temp and also the wind, what exactly the weight of the helicopter was.
No luck in any document I looked into for the 212. Would be grateful for any information, and also any logic why this has not been included in the basic RFM please.I also read in a post by Rotorbike on 23 May 02, that the allowable load reduces to just 10280 at 38 degrees. Now, is that IGE or OGE, TOP or MCP, Cat A or not, and is it for offshore or onshore? Can anyone help
Also interesting was the discussion on OEI while coming in to land. I survive to tell the tale and so does the whirlybird. That would be a topic for another post, of course
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When i started in the 212, i had the same problem....
Flying the 204 or 205 normally, i have always used the graphs in the checklist to recheck the calculated weight against hoverpower..
Unfortunately, there is no such graph for the 212.....if you will find one, let me know....
We came out to write down different weights and OATīs for each ship-just to have one value to check..
But normally it is not necessary-i have spoken to some of the Bell engineers, and they told me that you just have to check your hover power-and if there is 10-15% left, you can fly....
For the OEI-question-i am used to fly single engine ships, so i donīt really care...
But i had a TRE who took this serious....so i always had to stay in the OEI limits...
Where did you fly in the army (just send me a pm...)?
Flying the 204 or 205 normally, i have always used the graphs in the checklist to recheck the calculated weight against hoverpower..
Unfortunately, there is no such graph for the 212.....if you will find one, let me know....
We came out to write down different weights and OATīs for each ship-just to have one value to check..
But normally it is not necessary-i have spoken to some of the Bell engineers, and they told me that you just have to check your hover power-and if there is 10-15% left, you can fly....
For the OEI-question-i am used to fly single engine ships, so i donīt really care...
But i had a TRE who took this serious....so i always had to stay in the OEI limits...
Where did you fly in the army (just send me a pm...)?
Feeling very guilty that I haven't checked this thread more often; have only just read 'forget's story about the avionics refit in Singapore.
Very grateful to you for all the work you did - Brunei wasn't a brilliant tour, mainly because of the local's approach to work (and I'm a fine one to talk...), but the aircraft more than made up for that. You did us a big favour, 'forget' - thanks.
Very grateful to you for all the work you did - Brunei wasn't a brilliant tour, mainly because of the local's approach to work (and I'm a fine one to talk...), but the aircraft more than made up for that. You did us a big favour, 'forget' - thanks.
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212
Hey Luft, I got about 4000 hours on 212s, lots in very hot climes. Send me an email and I will send you a bag full of stuff.
Cheers, Joe
[email protected]
Cheers, Joe
[email protected]
Join Date: Dec 2001
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It's actually a problem with civilian performance charts. They really don't tell you what you need to know.
I have some old Canadian Air Force CH-135 (UH-1N) performance charts that go up to 10,500 lb as well as a nifty whiz-wheel that showed power required to hover. I'd be happy to send them along next week when I get home. Send me a PM.
I have some old Canadian Air Force CH-135 (UH-1N) performance charts that go up to 10,500 lb as well as a nifty whiz-wheel that showed power required to hover. I'd be happy to send them along next week when I get home. Send me a PM.