Hot refuel during Hover
I was peripherally involved with a similar programme when Bristow decided they needed it for a Puma operation in Australia. The equipment for refuelling in the hover is commercially available.
Flight Refuelling manufactured the manifold assembly that was installed on the airframe filler necks on the fwd and aft tanks. The idea was to winch up the hose, then fill both tanks through the single filler port. For the life of me, I can't remember if this was a gravity system, or a closed circuit - I seem to think it was a closed circuit system of some type.
They had sent someone up to measure the installation for the aircraft, and FR manufactured a really nice piece of equipment to install on the aircraft. There was only one minor glitch to the entire cunning plan, the measurements and planning for this great escapade had been accomplished on a Puma in heavies at ABZ. Due to the status of the inspection, the machine had no cabin doors installed, which also conveniently made everything so much more accessible. When the moment arrived to install the great invention, there was considerable embarrasment when it was discovered the cabin door could only be opened about 8 inches, due to the manifold being installed on the fwd filler neck.
Still, never ones to let minor problems interfere with our success, we continued to perform the flight testing portion with the poor winchman trying to manhandle the fuel nozzle and attach it all, through a rather small opening in the cabin door! We did fly-away and break-off tests with the line connected and various other fun things to pass the weekend away productively.
Although it did prove possible to refuel the aircraft in flight, the entire project quietly went away. As did an internal aux-tank (concept) for the Puma that was going on the same weekend, that involved an S58T aux tank stuffed in the tail supported on wooden trestles.
I actually have pictures of all this fun and games somewhere.
Perhaps the best one was the S76 ferry tank system that could neither get in or out of the aircraft doors. It sure looked nice assembled on the hangar floor though!
Ah, them was the days!
Flight Refuelling manufactured the manifold assembly that was installed on the airframe filler necks on the fwd and aft tanks. The idea was to winch up the hose, then fill both tanks through the single filler port. For the life of me, I can't remember if this was a gravity system, or a closed circuit - I seem to think it was a closed circuit system of some type.
They had sent someone up to measure the installation for the aircraft, and FR manufactured a really nice piece of equipment to install on the aircraft. There was only one minor glitch to the entire cunning plan, the measurements and planning for this great escapade had been accomplished on a Puma in heavies at ABZ. Due to the status of the inspection, the machine had no cabin doors installed, which also conveniently made everything so much more accessible. When the moment arrived to install the great invention, there was considerable embarrasment when it was discovered the cabin door could only be opened about 8 inches, due to the manifold being installed on the fwd filler neck.
Still, never ones to let minor problems interfere with our success, we continued to perform the flight testing portion with the poor winchman trying to manhandle the fuel nozzle and attach it all, through a rather small opening in the cabin door! We did fly-away and break-off tests with the line connected and various other fun things to pass the weekend away productively.
Although it did prove possible to refuel the aircraft in flight, the entire project quietly went away. As did an internal aux-tank (concept) for the Puma that was going on the same weekend, that involved an S58T aux tank stuffed in the tail supported on wooden trestles.
I actually have pictures of all this fun and games somewhere.
Perhaps the best one was the S76 ferry tank system that could neither get in or out of the aircraft doors. It sure looked nice assembled on the hangar floor though!
Ah, them was the days!
My uncle was flying back in the late 70's in a 500 on deer recovery. He said that they were very low on fuel and stuck above cloud, so his shooter climbed out and walked along the skid to the back door. (there were no doors on the machine) He refuelled the machine in the hover from jerrys in the back.
I dont think this is recomended back was the only option at the time.
I dont think this is recomended back was the only option at the time.
In lime and fertilizing spreading operations some operators have installed airborne refuel capabilities on their spread bucket.
The system works in the way that when you come in over the rig and change spread bucket the new bucket have a small fuel tank that fills into the helicopter fuel tank. So the system refills the helicopter tank during the short flight to spead the lime/fertilizer.
It is just a small amount of fuel on each bucket, but the system allows the helicopter to fly at minimum fuel all the time and thereby increase lift capasity. The time-in-air limiting factor will be the pilot, toilet, coffe or food. Maybe in an other order
I have seen this system on Bell 205 and AS 350.
CB
The system works in the way that when you come in over the rig and change spread bucket the new bucket have a small fuel tank that fills into the helicopter fuel tank. So the system refills the helicopter tank during the short flight to spead the lime/fertilizer.
It is just a small amount of fuel on each bucket, but the system allows the helicopter to fly at minimum fuel all the time and thereby increase lift capasity. The time-in-air limiting factor will be the pilot, toilet, coffe or food. Maybe in an other order
I have seen this system on Bell 205 and AS 350.
CB
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HIFR
The Royal Navy Merlin have trialed many a HIFR but have now realised due to the sheer size and weight of the bloody thing, it burns as much fuel through the three engines as what it can take in during the actual HIFR!! (from a merlin engineering friend!)
HIFR in the RN still remains essential when on missions such as Anti Surface Warfare where they are a long way from mother ship. The SAR role may use it also whenever there is a frigate around on their way to a long ranger.
HIFR in the RN still remains essential when on missions such as Anti Surface Warfare where they are a long way from mother ship. The SAR role may use it also whenever there is a frigate around on their way to a long ranger.
the new bucket have a small fuel tank that fills into the helicopter fuel tank.
This system is so smart that this just has to be in Sweden, no other aviation authority would approve such a good idea.
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Of course to add a bit more fun to the whole evolution, the pump pressure of the ships was and probably still is so low, that you have to hover very low over the water to overcome the "uphill" bit so that the amount delivered is more than the amount burned.
Can be interesting at night and in rough weather (the reason perhaps the deck is not available for land on...) You tend to get a lot of salt ingestion as well
Igor:
The ship can turn while HIFRing, as long as the relative wind stays within limits, and depending on the aircraft, can be a large range from port or stbd.
Think it's fun for the pilot, how about the poor s*ds manning the hose, having a tug of war with a 10 ton seaking in cr*p weather, hoping the pilot doesn't over control and break the weak links, letting the whole lot flop over the side into the sea!
I've done it in anger a couple of times and practiced it far too many times (practice bleeding is always fun)
Can be interesting at night and in rough weather (the reason perhaps the deck is not available for land on...) You tend to get a lot of salt ingestion as well
Igor:
The ship can turn while HIFRing, as long as the relative wind stays within limits, and depending on the aircraft, can be a large range from port or stbd.
Think it's fun for the pilot, how about the poor s*ds manning the hose, having a tug of war with a 10 ton seaking in cr*p weather, hoping the pilot doesn't over control and break the weak links, letting the whole lot flop over the side into the sea!
I've done it in anger a couple of times and practiced it far too many times (practice bleeding is always fun)
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Hover re-fuel.
Hallo Pruners,
From experience I can tell all, that a hover refuel once prevented an accident.
Returning from a crop spraying calibration at Sutton Bridge in 1976, as I lowered the lever for landing, the left skid began buckling from a fracture of the forward eg. The type was a F28C Enstrom. The ground refueller/chemical loader signalled the problem to me. Rotors turning chemical loading was normal for the operation, but not Avgas refuelling.
The fuel state gave an estimated 5 to 10 minutes remaining.
The engineer, Tony Ticehurst called on the hand held and suggested he could make a short term repair fix but which might need more time. The usual refuelling truck was on site and as the machine was held in a hover around five gallons was loaded. (fire extinguisher equipment well at the ready as we had full fire cover for the spraying operation. The engineer was able to secure clip a supporting brace (claw jemmy) which allowed the safe landing.
Later it was suggested to me It might have been better to put the machine down on a suitable tree stump, but we couldn't find one ! An accident definitely avoided.
From experience I can tell all, that a hover refuel once prevented an accident.
Returning from a crop spraying calibration at Sutton Bridge in 1976, as I lowered the lever for landing, the left skid began buckling from a fracture of the forward eg. The type was a F28C Enstrom. The ground refueller/chemical loader signalled the problem to me. Rotors turning chemical loading was normal for the operation, but not Avgas refuelling.
The fuel state gave an estimated 5 to 10 minutes remaining.
The engineer, Tony Ticehurst called on the hand held and suggested he could make a short term repair fix but which might need more time. The usual refuelling truck was on site and as the machine was held in a hover around five gallons was loaded. (fire extinguisher equipment well at the ready as we had full fire cover for the spraying operation. The engineer was able to secure clip a supporting brace (claw jemmy) which allowed the safe landing.
Later it was suggested to me It might have been better to put the machine down on a suitable tree stump, but we couldn't find one ! An accident definitely avoided.
Mr Coupling
This has happened more than once in the old days. We do not all operate from airfield to airfield in shiny new machines where everything is done by the book!
Belive me this has been done.
This has happened more than once in the old days. We do not all operate from airfield to airfield in shiny new machines where everything is done by the book!
Belive me this has been done.
I seem to remember a similar skid repair was done at Blackpool about 15 years ago after a wire strike in a 206 [no, it wasn't me] and at least one RRRF was done while they fitted new skids.
Wasn't the origin of the maritime technique with Air Whaling in the early 1950's?
Wasn't the origin of the maritime technique with Air Whaling in the early 1950's?
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There was chinook in the mid 80s at Gutersloh that had to refuel in the hover whilst a rig was constructed to enable the a/c to land without rear undercarriage. A heavy landing during an auto I think but not sure.
I wonder where Thumper is to-day??
R1a
I wonder where Thumper is to-day??
R1a
Now, Now Mr Coupling. Don't give EMS R22 a hard time. His Uncle said it happened so it MUST be true. I bet it was also the biggest deer ever shot in the whole wide world.
Don't spoil the poor lad's vision of his hero uncle.
Don't spoil the poor lad's vision of his hero uncle.
Hi
Does anyone have a copy of the photo of pilot and passenger out on the skids of a Hiller (I think) over San Francisco Bay - PR shot I think - it might make R22's story seem very believable.
TeeS
Does anyone have a copy of the photo of pilot and passenger out on the skids of a Hiller (I think) over San Francisco Bay - PR shot I think - it might make R22's story seem very believable.
TeeS
Roundwego , thanks for your kind words. This was not an uncommen thing to do back in the day. Thankyou TeeS for not taking the piss out of my like old Roundy!
I dont think it was the biggest deer ever shot . The biggest deer ever shot, was shot on the ground not out of a machine.
I dont think it was the biggest deer ever shot . The biggest deer ever shot, was shot on the ground not out of a machine.
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I do have to agree with ems R22, that it has been known to be done in the old days. That story is actually in a great book called the venison hunters!! and very well documented in there. Even though R22 maybe be a slight rattler dreaming off the good ol' days, He is right!!
