EC225
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 431
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From: Aer
Pablo, 2 thou depth doesn't sound a lot but in the context of a machined mirror finish, its obvious to the naked eye.
Corrosion would not have been visible in that location on REDW with the naked eye as it would have been obscured by the plug.
Not sure whether the other corrosion on the main shaft was 2 thou deep and I frankly doubt that it is visible to the naked eye if it only became apparent on the CHC shaft after microscopic inspection.
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,105
Likes: 50
From: Aberdeen
TM yes I was talking about the corrosion on the inside surface of the shaft, not corrosion in the drill hole which as you say is obscured by the plug and probably difficult to see even if the plug is removed. However the photos that were published showing the corroded shaft internals against a shaft with internals in good condition (mirror machined finish) surely indicates that corrosion to that extent was easily visible?
I just checked the photos again (SIN 2600-S-00 on TIPI) and it doesn't make it clear what level of magnification is being used, however I wouldn't have thought it too difficult to visually check for corrosion with the appropriate degree of magnification.
I just checked the photos again (SIN 2600-S-00 on TIPI) and it doesn't make it clear what level of magnification is being used, however I wouldn't have thought it too difficult to visually check for corrosion with the appropriate degree of magnification.
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 160
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From: A nice place
Pablo, 2 thou depth doesn't sound a lot but in the context of a machined mirror finish, its obvious to the naked eye.
Just out of idle curiosity, have you looked into one of these shafts?
Post edited to make it less confrontational.
Just out of idle curiosity, have you looked into one of these shafts?
Post edited to make it less confrontational.
Last edited by Pablo332; 6th August 2013 at 01:13.
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,105
Likes: 50
From: Aberdeen
No, however 2 thou depth of pitting on a mirror finish is easy to see. Inside the shaft, not so easy to see without some gear, but with the right gear, easy to see with optical magnification as portrayed in the image in the SIN.
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,105
Likes: 50
From: Aberdeen
Lowfat, thanks for your advice but I shall continue to comment on whatever I want to comment on, especially when its a matter of common sense.
Rather than telling me what to do, perhaps you would care to make a positive contribution to the discussion by explaining how the photo in the SIN was obtained including how difficult it was? That is presuming of course that you have any idea.
Rather than telling me what to do, perhaps you would care to make a positive contribution to the discussion by explaining how the photo in the SIN was obtained including how difficult it was? That is presuming of course that you have any idea.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 275
Likes: 1
From: Behind the curve
What some of you might need to appreciate is that HC is far more than just a pretty face flying various aircraft. He has academic qualifications far beyond what is required to be a mere glorified bus driver.
But more to the point, his many talents and capabilities include much hands-on and in-depth experience with mechanical, electrical and electronic equipment.
There is very little that people formally qualified in those areas could surprise him with and had he chosen a career in any of those disciplines, he would have excelled.
So if he says "however 2 thou depth of pitting on a mirror finish is easy to see" then I suggest that you ought to believe it.
I await the predictable storm of snide comments from the usual suspects.
But more to the point, his many talents and capabilities include much hands-on and in-depth experience with mechanical, electrical and electronic equipment.
There is very little that people formally qualified in those areas could surprise him with and had he chosen a career in any of those disciplines, he would have excelled.
So if he says "however 2 thou depth of pitting on a mirror finish is easy to see" then I suggest that you ought to believe it.
I await the predictable storm of snide comments from the usual suspects.
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,105
Likes: 50
From: Aberdeen
What some of you might need to appreciate is that HC is far more than just a pretty face flying various aircraft. He has academic qualifications far beyond what is required to be a mere glorified bus driver.
But more to the point, his many talents and capabilities include much hands-on and in-depth experience with mechanical, electrical and electronic equipment.
There is very little that people formally qualified in those areas could surprise him with and had he chosen a career in any of those disciplines, he would have excelled.
So if he says "however 2 thou depth of pitting on a mirror finish is easy to see" then I suggest that you ought to believe it.
I await the predictable storm of snide comments from the usual suspects.
But more to the point, his many talents and capabilities include much hands-on and in-depth experience with mechanical, electrical and electronic equipment.
There is very little that people formally qualified in those areas could surprise him with and had he chosen a career in any of those disciplines, he would have excelled.
So if he says "however 2 thou depth of pitting on a mirror finish is easy to see" then I suggest that you ought to believe it.
I await the predictable storm of snide comments from the usual suspects.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 876
Likes: 0
From: Inside the Industry
Colibri
Not being snide but I don't think I have ever read a more ridiculous post.
You may well know HC. So do I, in fact I have known him for 33 years. I sincerely appreciate his technical knowledge, opinion, pilot skill and even humour, which some don't always get.
But you have no idea of the qualifications, knowledge, prettiness or position of those who engage with him or their reasons for doing so. Until you do, I would be inclined to keep quiet.
Not being snide but I don't think I have ever read a more ridiculous post.
You may well know HC. So do I, in fact I have known him for 33 years. I sincerely appreciate his technical knowledge, opinion, pilot skill and even humour, which some don't always get.
But you have no idea of the qualifications, knowledge, prettiness or position of those who engage with him or their reasons for doing so. Until you do, I would be inclined to keep quiet.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 275
Likes: 1
From: Behind the curve
I.I. On the contrary, from the way that certain personalities keep repeating the same worn-out criticisms, it is clear to me that some of them either aren't very bright, or just want to argue from their same old corners for the sake of arguing, or have agendas seemingly arising from jealousy.
I don't need to know anything about the backgrounds of other contributors to be able to pick up from what they write some clues as to their particular specialisations.
As for "ridiculous", yes I agree, but as for keeping quiet, it's a free society and how boring life would be without buffoons like me to periodically toss something outrageous into the mix.
I don't need to know anything about the backgrounds of other contributors to be able to pick up from what they write some clues as to their particular specialisations.
As for "ridiculous", yes I agree, but as for keeping quiet, it's a free society and how boring life would be without buffoons like me to periodically toss something outrageous into the mix.
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
Likes: 1,072
From: Downeast
HC is more than just a pretty face....other's words and certainly not mine....but he does bring much to the discussion based upon his extensive experience and unique insight to the EC-225.
One may not always agree with him....but he bears listening too....closely!
One thing is for sure here at Rotorheads.....issues get discussed....viewpoints get attacked....but we show respect to those that by merit of their background, abilities, knowledge and experience deserve it.
HC does in all regards.
As an aside....I would never accuse him of being pretty....as that would a purely false accusation!
One may not always agree with him....but he bears listening too....closely!
One thing is for sure here at Rotorheads.....issues get discussed....viewpoints get attacked....but we show respect to those that by merit of their background, abilities, knowledge and experience deserve it.
HC does in all regards.
As an aside....I would never accuse him of being pretty....as that would a purely false accusation!
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
From: Aer
Colibri 49, I for one, as someone to whom you probably obliquely refer, have enjoyed debating in the interests of stimulating some discussion to counter the ease with which some seem to accept effete explanations of EC. The debate seems to be getting under your skin.
There can be no better example of a lack of real world testing, even if it only happens at speeds >125 knots on descent, than the MOD45 acquisition with the now 17 spurious MOD45 warnings.
Had this been properly tested in the aircraft by EC, it would and should have been known and software corrected before the modification was released.
It's all very well to say never mind, there there, it is only a software issue or a question of slowing down and changing the descent profile. But how such a lack of real world testing was missed by eminent experts, the OEM and the European regulators shows insufficient application of rigorous procedure and questioning and an acceptance of the EC spin.
I am not jealous nor do I have an agenda other than to be able to honestly answer passengers' questions and right now they are not impressed with the helicopter industry's explanations. Lastly, I don't care what you, HC, or anyone else thinks of my intelligence or perceived lack of it.
There can be no better example of a lack of real world testing, even if it only happens at speeds >125 knots on descent, than the MOD45 acquisition with the now 17 spurious MOD45 warnings.
Had this been properly tested in the aircraft by EC, it would and should have been known and software corrected before the modification was released.
It's all very well to say never mind, there there, it is only a software issue or a question of slowing down and changing the descent profile. But how such a lack of real world testing was missed by eminent experts, the OEM and the European regulators shows insufficient application of rigorous procedure and questioning and an acceptance of the EC spin.
I am not jealous nor do I have an agenda other than to be able to honestly answer passengers' questions and right now they are not impressed with the helicopter industry's explanations. Lastly, I don't care what you, HC, or anyone else thinks of my intelligence or perceived lack of it.
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,105
Likes: 50
From: Aberdeen
lowfat, no, but then neither have you. If only certainties were posted on this rumour forum, it would be a dull and postless place.
I am however aware that minor imperfections are easily visible in a mirror smooth surface, that the shaft has a relatively wide internal bore and is relative short (from the end to the area in question), and that a photo making the corrosion plainly visible is already in the public domain. Therefore I conclude that it is quite feasible to check other shafts in the same way, and to not do so would seem foolish. If you can't see all that, it is you who is posting from a position of ignorance.
I am however aware that minor imperfections are easily visible in a mirror smooth surface, that the shaft has a relatively wide internal bore and is relative short (from the end to the area in question), and that a photo making the corrosion plainly visible is already in the public domain. Therefore I conclude that it is quite feasible to check other shafts in the same way, and to not do so would seem foolish. If you can't see all that, it is you who is posting from a position of ignorance.
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
Likes: 1,072
From: Downeast
To hear some tell it....HC has never seen a 225 up close....and knows naught of the machine or has never had any contact with those who design, build, and/or maintain the machine!
That is a very false Premise. How many times must we remind said Party of the fallacy of his suppositions?
Perhaps we need to expose said Party to the American Comedian who has made famous the saying....."Here's Yer Sign!"!
As HC can attest....in the past I accused him of knowing nothing else but the 225.
The poor Sod seems to be in a crossfire!
That is a very false Premise. How many times must we remind said Party of the fallacy of his suppositions?
Perhaps we need to expose said Party to the American Comedian who has made famous the saying....."Here's Yer Sign!"!
As HC can attest....in the past I accused him of knowing nothing else but the 225.
The poor Sod seems to be in a crossfire!
Last edited by SASless; 6th August 2013 at 15:15.
Howcanwebeexpectedtoflylikeeagles
whensurroundedbyturkeys
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
Just home from 2 days back on the 225. Just over 10 hours, 8 sectors, 4 instrument approaches and everything worked fine. Great to be back. Admin day tomorrow; wish I was flying.
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
From: A nice place
Nice to see you back in the air. Any unexpected MOD45 indications? Or modifications of procedures required to
avoid unwanted MOD 45 warnings?
Post edited for clarity
avoid unwanted MOD 45 warnings?
Post edited for clarity
Last edited by Pablo332; 9th August 2013 at 13:36.