EC225
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 315
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From: Up here, but not for long
FADEC, not sure if it is possible to do the check whilst you are doing the wash run - with both engines at idle but...
...I would recommend that it is done before flight - or at least before the first flight of the day - to ensure that it is working following any maintenance done on the aircraft; it might be that the system was disturbed during work carried out on the aircraft and finding out it's not working when you really need it might have you wishing you spent the two minutes it takes to check it.
Wiz
...I would recommend that it is done before flight - or at least before the first flight of the day - to ensure that it is working following any maintenance done on the aircraft; it might be that the system was disturbed during work carried out on the aircraft and finding out it's not working when you really need it might have you wishing you spent the two minutes it takes to check it.
Wiz
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: in the rain
Is there not something about the TRU 3 being driven by hydraulics and the Nr needs to be above 78 before the hydraulics are working? So if you have both engines at idle then the Nr would be too low for the hydraulics, hence the Emergency Supply would not work.
Its been a while so I might be full of poo
Its been a while so I might be full of poo
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,105
Likes: 50
From: Aberdeen
Yes, it is called for in the Supplement. If you tried to do it with engines at idle, rotor speed (and hence hydraulic pump speed) would be low and there might be insufficient LH hydraulic pressure to run the hydraulic motor, so it might fail the test.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104
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From: In the Orient
I tend to agree with FADEC 225. Even if the TRU 3 is found to be unserviceable it is not a NO GO item ..meaning the flight will still have to proceed unless there are other valid reasons (snowing hard?). I had suggested this earlier on but the FM says it is before flight so the company just follow. In our case we do ther engine wash one at a time so the RRPM is always at 100% .
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: Germany
Engine wash
I don't see the point making the engine wash at both engine idle, you lose the alternators at low RPM and you have to switch back to flight for 5 minutes drying time anyway.
For the hydro-alternator, it has to be tested before the first flight of the day and specially for offshore flight. It's a No Go. Don't expect to last on the battery more than 20 minutes in case of losing both TRU's, which was not unusual in hot countries before the modification of the exhaust.
For the hydro-alternator, it has to be tested before the first flight of the day and specially for offshore flight. It's a No Go. Don't expect to last on the battery more than 20 minutes in case of losing both TRU's, which was not unusual in hot countries before the modification of the exhaust.
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,105
Likes: 50
From: Aberdeen
We wash with both engines at idle because we wash both engines simultaneously. Why not, it saves a little time? The battery is recharged during the drying run.
212, MMELs are produced by the manufacturer, EASA just approve them. The 225 MMEL can be found on EC's tech publication system TIPI.
212, MMELs are produced by the manufacturer, EASA just approve them. The 225 MMEL can be found on EC's tech publication system TIPI.
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: china
thanks Wiz.some crew said that is indicate the same with normal check first flight.nothing different.i check flight manual.TR3 is connect to essential bus.maybe test is the same good result--indicate test normal.may i find on eurocopter technical support-T.I.P.I
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104
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From: In the Orient
Another EC 225 discussion....
The AMC computed Vtoss is shown on the IAS column (eg 45 kts). If we decide to take a higher V1 than indicated eg when using a long runway departure in Performance Class 1 ops (maybe 40 ft / 60 kts h1 v1 TDP) from an airport with sufficient runway length, would it be better to beep the V toss to 70 kts (in this case) or to leave the V toss as indicating 45 kts? I personally like to keep the origional V toss rather than beeping to the new selected V toss as I will know at all times the exact take off safety speed. Any extra is a bonus and in "real bad time" I may even be able to convert the excess speed to height.
The AMC computed Vtoss is shown on the IAS column (eg 45 kts). If we decide to take a higher V1 than indicated eg when using a long runway departure in Performance Class 1 ops (maybe 40 ft / 60 kts h1 v1 TDP) from an airport with sufficient runway length, would it be better to beep the V toss to 70 kts (in this case) or to leave the V toss as indicating 45 kts? I personally like to keep the origional V toss rather than beeping to the new selected V toss as I will know at all times the exact take off safety speed. Any extra is a bonus and in "real bad time" I may even be able to convert the excess speed to height.
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,105
Likes: 50
From: Aberdeen
gnow
We always try to nominate a Vtoss higher than the minimum for airfield takeoff (even if it means a backtrack) since 100'/min is not a very good rate of climb, especially if there happens to be a downdraft of 200'/min!
We then beep the Vtoss up to that nominated speed for various reasons - for a clear airfield takeoff so that it acts as a reminder to both pilots what the nominated Vtoss is, and for onshore helipad takeoff so that the autopilot knows what speed to go for if we go OEI before Vtoss.
But then it was me who asked EC for the ability to beep up Vtoss (it was not a feature of the original software version we had with our first deliveries) so maybe I am biased!
To comply with the Cat A procedure, you should not change the Vtoss in mid-stream from that which you based your takeoff decision point on. If you do, whilst it might work out OK, you are effectively making up your own procedure that has not been approved by any Authority. You would certainly invalidate any obstacle clearance calculations that you might have had to do since the graphs presume that the stated profile is followed.
HC
We always try to nominate a Vtoss higher than the minimum for airfield takeoff (even if it means a backtrack) since 100'/min is not a very good rate of climb, especially if there happens to be a downdraft of 200'/min!
We then beep the Vtoss up to that nominated speed for various reasons - for a clear airfield takeoff so that it acts as a reminder to both pilots what the nominated Vtoss is, and for onshore helipad takeoff so that the autopilot knows what speed to go for if we go OEI before Vtoss.
But then it was me who asked EC for the ability to beep up Vtoss (it was not a feature of the original software version we had with our first deliveries) so maybe I am biased!
To comply with the Cat A procedure, you should not change the Vtoss in mid-stream from that which you based your takeoff decision point on. If you do, whilst it might work out OK, you are effectively making up your own procedure that has not been approved by any Authority. You would certainly invalidate any obstacle clearance calculations that you might have had to do since the graphs presume that the stated profile is followed.
HC
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 275
Likes: 1
From: Behind the curve
FADEC225 After the first start of each day, after the hydraulic HTG is on, and after both engines are running, then we test the 3rd TRU. We don't consider the OAT for this test.
I agree that there does not seem to be a graph in the FM specifically for platform landings.
I agree that there does not seem to be a graph in the FM specifically for platform landings.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 921
Likes: 30
From: Europe
FADEC225,
Depending on the Operational Rules, the maximum mass for landing on a rig will be satisfaction of the PC2 requirements.
At the very least that will be the mass provided by the lesser of: maximum certificated take-off mass; compliance with Second Segment Climb Performance (from the clear area CAT A performance graphs); or the OEI en-route climb requirement (which is identical to PC1).
Even if your State's rules do not specify these limitations, the operator (pilot) might wish to apply them - they are not (usually) punitive.
Jim
Depending on the Operational Rules, the maximum mass for landing on a rig will be satisfaction of the PC2 requirements.
At the very least that will be the mass provided by the lesser of: maximum certificated take-off mass; compliance with Second Segment Climb Performance (from the clear area CAT A performance graphs); or the OEI en-route climb requirement (which is identical to PC1).
Even if your State's rules do not specify these limitations, the operator (pilot) might wish to apply them - they are not (usually) punitive.
Jim
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: china
how to decide change the VTOSS of EC225?
when we have enter payload,we can find the vtoss indicator,we have the figure,is it necessary to change the figure for ourself operation?if we change what kind of effct to operation?many thanks