Flying in snow
During my time as a Army Pilot as soon as the snow arrived we were rebriefed about snow landings and take-offs etc,also we had to fly with a QHI and demonsrate we could carry out this type of flying....
Do you reckon it is economical to run to a Check Pilot for training anytime something new shows up in the form of weather or task?
You reckon a "Professional" pilot should be able to cope with such encounters...through training, experience, and education or have the commonsense to wait it out until conditions improve?
Avoid imitations
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what happens as a civilian or do you learn the hard way.
As a military pilot, working in a more supervised and mandatory ongoing training environment, you were privy to a far more comprehensive (and ongoing) syllabus.
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Micraman
Thats a very reasonable question. Unfortunately it is sometimes difficult to get a reasonable answer.
There are no hard and fast rules and it depends very much on where you are, what you are required to do, and who pays the bills.
If I am going to send someone out in my helicopter, in the snow, then I will make sure he is capable. If he is not, or if there is doubt, I have two options:
1. Wait for the snow to clear.
2. Give him some training.
Either way it is going to cost money.
I can't think of any responsible operator who will allow their pilots to experiment in the snow without guidance.
I'd take the British Army method every time, unfortunately, as a civvy I now have to have a slightly different outlook.
Tam Macklin
There are no hard and fast rules and it depends very much on where you are, what you are required to do, and who pays the bills.
If I am going to send someone out in my helicopter, in the snow, then I will make sure he is capable. If he is not, or if there is doubt, I have two options:
1. Wait for the snow to clear.
2. Give him some training.
Either way it is going to cost money.
I can't think of any responsible operator who will allow their pilots to experiment in the snow without guidance.
I'd take the British Army method every time, unfortunately, as a civvy I now have to have a slightly different outlook.
Tam Macklin
I reckon it depends where one builds one's hours.
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Here you can see what a nice overcast winter day looks like on the St Lawrence river in Canada . Photo taken from the ground during the seal hunt season.
NO PHOTOSHOPPED. People you see are news reporters.
No blowing snow of course but it gives you a idea of what a "whiteout condition" looks like, that's one of them.
NOT a good time to head back to shore, 40 miles out
JD
NO PHOTOSHOPPED. People you see are news reporters.
No blowing snow of course but it gives you a idea of what a "whiteout condition" looks like, that's one of them.
NOT a good time to head back to shore, 40 miles out
JD
Snow training is part of the initial part 135 training where I work. We do about 2 hours of ground followed by a flight up into deep snow country to practice the techniques. We also conduct quarterly training, (albeit only 30 to 60 minutes of flight--unless more is needed). We try to make at least one of the quarterly's to be in deep snow.
Here is a brief list of topics we cover...this is off the top of my head as I do not have my training manuals at hand---hope it helps:
Discussion Topics:
1. Weather and wind.
2. High and low reconnaissance, including: ridges, valleys, snow conditions, wind evaluation, slope evaluation and approach/departure corridors..
3. Approach and Landing, including: angle, obstacle avoidance, white out, powder vs. packed ice, flat light, slopes, sliding, settling onto snow, packing down, shutting down.
4. Lift off and departure, including: clearing the skis, start up on ice, white out, TR clearance, departure path choices.
Here is a brief list of topics we cover...this is off the top of my head as I do not have my training manuals at hand---hope it helps:
Discussion Topics:
1. Weather and wind.
2. High and low reconnaissance, including: ridges, valleys, snow conditions, wind evaluation, slope evaluation and approach/departure corridors..
3. Approach and Landing, including: angle, obstacle avoidance, white out, powder vs. packed ice, flat light, slopes, sliding, settling onto snow, packing down, shutting down.
4. Lift off and departure, including: clearing the skis, start up on ice, white out, TR clearance, departure path choices.
Avoid imitations
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NO PHOTOSHOPPED. People you see are news reporters.
Gordy, sounds good to me.
We used to do an annual ski expeditition to southern Germany, oops no sorry, I mean a "mountain/snow flying training expedition". Served me very well; I wouldn't consider myself an expert by any means but the basics taught there have kept me out of trouble.
At least as far as flying goes....
Thought you might be interested in the Helicopter Association of Canada's heliskiing guidelines
http://www.h-a-c.ca/heliskiing.pdf
and a friend at work...
Snow Landing video by snippet58 - Photobucket
http://www.h-a-c.ca/heliskiing.pdf
and a friend at work...
Snow Landing video by snippet58 - Photobucket
Last edited by Decredenza; 7th Feb 2012 at 03:14.
Wow! That´s really a lot of powder in the 2.video! Good job!
I had some problems after a landing , the Bell06 was safe on ground for about 20 seconds, but suddenly the skids broke in, that means i looked in the sky and tailrotor was only some inches befor touching the frozen snow! really shocking! My advice: always use snow skids and check with pitch mouvements the condition off the terrain below!
(sorry for bad english, i´am from bavaria
)
I had some problems after a landing , the Bell06 was safe on ground for about 20 seconds, but suddenly the skids broke in, that means i looked in the sky and tailrotor was only some inches befor touching the frozen snow! really shocking! My advice: always use snow skids and check with pitch mouvements the condition off the terrain below!
(sorry for bad english, i´am from bavaria
)
My advice: always use snowboards on the skids
Very sound advice....especially if flying a MD-500.
The other laugh is to land as described...determine it safe to shutdown...then step out of the aircraft and sink up to your waist in the Snow. Sometimes Snow Shoes should go along if your birdie is wearing Snow Boards (Bear Claws).
