North Sea Crash
Thread Starter
North Sea Crash
A Scotia Super Puma rolled over today on the West Navion (west of Shetland). No pax on board but one of the crew members was injured, I believe a broken leg. Fortunately the aircraft remained on the deck which I guess is a blessing.
Any other news as to what caused the roll over ?
Any other news as to what caused the roll over ?
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Saturday, 10 November, 2001, 18:19 GMT
Pilot injured in helicopter accident
The helicopter was on a drilling ship
A helicopter with two crew on board has been involved in an accident on a North Sea drilling ship.
The Super Puma rolled over on its side after landing on the West Navion.
One of the pilots suffered a broken leg and has been taken by coastguard helicopter to Lerwick where he is being treated in hospital.
The man, who has not been named, was inside the aircraft which flipped over on its side on the North Sea ship, 70 miles west of Shetland.
'Windy conditions'
The drilling ship is owned by Norwegian company Smedveg and is operated by BP.
A BP spokesman said an investigation had begun into the incident.
He said: "At the moment we are unsure why this helicopter turned on its side, windy conditions may have played a part in this, but it is too early to say.
"The crew were making last-minute checks to the helicopter, which was being refuelled on the ship's helicopter deck when this happened.
"They had taken 12 oil workers out to the ship earlier in the day and were about to return with 12 different workers who were taking part in a regular shift change.
"The passengers had been waiting near the helicopter when the incident took place but none of them had gone into the aircraft prior to it turning."
Pilot injured in helicopter accident
The helicopter was on a drilling ship
A helicopter with two crew on board has been involved in an accident on a North Sea drilling ship.
The Super Puma rolled over on its side after landing on the West Navion.
One of the pilots suffered a broken leg and has been taken by coastguard helicopter to Lerwick where he is being treated in hospital.
The man, who has not been named, was inside the aircraft which flipped over on its side on the North Sea ship, 70 miles west of Shetland.
'Windy conditions'
The drilling ship is owned by Norwegian company Smedveg and is operated by BP.
A BP spokesman said an investigation had begun into the incident.
He said: "At the moment we are unsure why this helicopter turned on its side, windy conditions may have played a part in this, but it is too early to say.
"The crew were making last-minute checks to the helicopter, which was being refuelled on the ship's helicopter deck when this happened.
"They had taken 12 oil workers out to the ship earlier in the day and were about to return with 12 different workers who were taking part in a regular shift change.
"The passengers had been waiting near the helicopter when the incident took place but none of them had gone into the aircraft prior to it turning."
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A whole multitude of possibilities.
Too early to speculate, time to reflect and Thank God that the only thing to happen as a consiquence was a broken leg. Could have been a hell of a lot worse!!
Too early to speculate, time to reflect and Thank God that the only thing to happen as a consiquence was a broken leg. Could have been a hell of a lot worse!!
Just a numbered other
Seem to remember from my Navy days that the stumbly had an appallingly low sloping ground limit due to its high CofG. It was considered totally unsuitable for ship ops. Are the civvy ones different?
Glad it was no worse.
Glad it was no worse.
Avoid imitations
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Ark,
Yes. The undercarriage is different. They have been successful in the role (roll?) for twenty years or so.
Yes. The undercarriage is different. They have been successful in the role (roll?) for twenty years or so.
Thread Starter
Undercarriage may be different, but its still very top-heavy with a high mounted gearbox and a narrow wheel base. All in all, give it a low fuel quantity and empty out all the pax and it won't take much to tip it over.
Glad to see that no-one was hurt.
Here is the ABZ P&J story.
Probe under way into helicopter accident
by Angela Taylor
A MAJOR investigation was under way last night to establish why a helicopter tipped over on the deck of a drilling ship, injuring the co-pilot.
Coastguards and offshore union officials said the incident, off Shetland, could easily have had devastating consequences.
The Aberdeen-based CHC Scotia helicopter had flown 12 crew members to the West Navion ship, then refuelled onboard.
It was preparing to return to Aberdeen at about 1.10pm on Saturday when it rolled on to its side in gale-force winds.
The rotor blades were still turning as the Super Puma helicopter rolled and it is understood one blade struck the co-pilot, breaking his leg.
He had been standing nearby, supervising the refuelling of the helicopter, when it rolled.
The pilot, who was the only person on board the aircraft at the time, is thought to have clambered out of the helicopter.
The co-pilot – who suffered a "nasty leg injury" according to coastguards – was winched into a coastguard helicopter and taken to hospital. Neither he nor the pilot have been named.
The ship – owned by Norwegian firm Smedvig – was operating in the Assynt field, about 78 miles from Shetland.
She was being used to carry out drilling work in the Assynt well for BP and was scheduled to continue that work for about another fortnight, although all work has been suspended in the wake of the accident, a spokesman for the oil company said.
Last night, it was still unclear exactly why the Super Puma capsized.
The Air Accidents Investigation Branch and Health and Safety Executive are investigating the incident, while BP is also conducting investigations in conjunction with the HSE.
An internal investigation by CHC Scotia is also under way.
Jake Molloy, secretary of the offshore workers union OILC, said the crew were "very lucky indeed" that the incident had not been worse.
He said: "I was a helicopter lander when I was offshore for 17 years. I've never come across a helicopter being blown over. If there was a pitch and roll of four to five metres you must be looking at the limits for safe landings and take-offs.
"If it was sitting steady on the deck I can only imagine it was pitch and roll that caused the problem."
The rescue operation was co-ordinated by staff at Aberdeen Coastguard, assisted by their Shetland colleagues.
According to a spokesman, the West Navion was pitching and rolling between four and five metres. A westerly wind was blowing at 33knots – gale force seven to eight – and visibility was 4,000m.
Shetland Coastguard's Sumburgh-based helicopter, Rescue Oscar Charlie, flew out to the ship and winched the injured man on board. He was taken to Gilbert Bain Hospital, in Lerwick, and later transferred to Aberdeen Royal Infirmary, where he was last night said to be "comfortable".
The Super Puma was lashed to the deck of the vessel to prevent it toppling into the sea.
Coastguard winchman Friedie Manson said: "We were told before we arrived there that one of the pilots had a severely broken leg and that the other pilot was unhurt, just shaken.
"Amazingly, nobody else was hurt in the accident."
Captain of the coastguard helicopter, Mark Jackson, said the winching operation was not as straightforward as he would have liked.
"The difficulty, initially, was to try winching him from the stern. But it was so turbulent that we couldn't do it.
"So we had a little think about it. We spoke to the captain of the West Navion and came up with the idea to winch him from the helideck where the helicopter was lying on its side," he said.
"We winched from a height, so we did not affect the chopper at all, and that was relatively straightforward."
The BP spokesman said measures had been taken to prevent further problems on the ship.
"The helideck on the drill ship has been isolated and, as a precautionary measure, foam has been used to make the aircraft safe. The well has not been affected by the accident and has been made safe."
The crew due to be taken off the boat will have to remain on board until the damaged aircraft has been removed.
They will not have to work while they wait for transport, the BP spokesman said.
He added that the vessel has the capacity to accommodate the extra staff and there would be no bed shortages.
No helicopters will be able to land on the West Navion until the damaged helicopter has been removed.
Large cranes will have to be used to carry out the salvage operation. It has not yet been decided whether to get heavy lifting gear taken out to the West Navion or have the ship brought back to shore.
It is not known how long it would take to get a crane to the site.
BP will work in conjunction with Scotia and Smedvig to arrange removal of the helicopter.
The rotor blades of the helicopter were damaged when it rolled, the BP spokesman said. It was unclear yesterday whether there was any further damage.
"Until investigations are carried out no one is going near the craft," he said.
The rotor blades cut into the helideck causing some superficial damage, but this will not cause any operational difficulties.
The Super Puma is made by Eurocopter, a French-German consortium, and can take 20 passengers.
It is 18.7-metres long and has a top speed of 165mph and a range of 540 miles.
The disabled helicopter could be removed from the West Navion in a number of ways. Experts said the most likely method used to remove it would be by crane, either on shore or offshore.
The West Navion has been modified into a drilling rig so she can carry out drilling operations. She can manoeuvre like a ship but she has a drilling platform on board, so she can move from well to well. She was in the middle of a drilling programme at the time of the incident.
The drama could potentially have been much worse, if the aircraft had gone into the water or the rotors had struck the drilling equipment, the Aberdeen Coastguard spokeswoman said.
"It was a very, very unfortunate accident, but it's one of these things that could have been a lot worse. Safety measures were put into play immediately, preventing it being worse. Luckily, nobody was in the sea or more seriously injured. If the helicopter had gone into the sea it would have been a lot worse."
Twelve men were killed when the Super Puma helicopter they were travelling in crashed off the coast of Norway in September, 1997. It disappeared while on a flight to the Norne field in the Norwegian Sea. Super Pumas were voluntarily grounded for a short time after the crash.
Here is the ABZ P&J story.
Probe under way into helicopter accident
by Angela Taylor
A MAJOR investigation was under way last night to establish why a helicopter tipped over on the deck of a drilling ship, injuring the co-pilot.
Coastguards and offshore union officials said the incident, off Shetland, could easily have had devastating consequences.
The Aberdeen-based CHC Scotia helicopter had flown 12 crew members to the West Navion ship, then refuelled onboard.
It was preparing to return to Aberdeen at about 1.10pm on Saturday when it rolled on to its side in gale-force winds.
The rotor blades were still turning as the Super Puma helicopter rolled and it is understood one blade struck the co-pilot, breaking his leg.
He had been standing nearby, supervising the refuelling of the helicopter, when it rolled.
The pilot, who was the only person on board the aircraft at the time, is thought to have clambered out of the helicopter.
The co-pilot – who suffered a "nasty leg injury" according to coastguards – was winched into a coastguard helicopter and taken to hospital. Neither he nor the pilot have been named.
The ship – owned by Norwegian firm Smedvig – was operating in the Assynt field, about 78 miles from Shetland.
She was being used to carry out drilling work in the Assynt well for BP and was scheduled to continue that work for about another fortnight, although all work has been suspended in the wake of the accident, a spokesman for the oil company said.
Last night, it was still unclear exactly why the Super Puma capsized.
The Air Accidents Investigation Branch and Health and Safety Executive are investigating the incident, while BP is also conducting investigations in conjunction with the HSE.
An internal investigation by CHC Scotia is also under way.
Jake Molloy, secretary of the offshore workers union OILC, said the crew were "very lucky indeed" that the incident had not been worse.
He said: "I was a helicopter lander when I was offshore for 17 years. I've never come across a helicopter being blown over. If there was a pitch and roll of four to five metres you must be looking at the limits for safe landings and take-offs.
"If it was sitting steady on the deck I can only imagine it was pitch and roll that caused the problem."
The rescue operation was co-ordinated by staff at Aberdeen Coastguard, assisted by their Shetland colleagues.
According to a spokesman, the West Navion was pitching and rolling between four and five metres. A westerly wind was blowing at 33knots – gale force seven to eight – and visibility was 4,000m.
Shetland Coastguard's Sumburgh-based helicopter, Rescue Oscar Charlie, flew out to the ship and winched the injured man on board. He was taken to Gilbert Bain Hospital, in Lerwick, and later transferred to Aberdeen Royal Infirmary, where he was last night said to be "comfortable".
The Super Puma was lashed to the deck of the vessel to prevent it toppling into the sea.
Coastguard winchman Friedie Manson said: "We were told before we arrived there that one of the pilots had a severely broken leg and that the other pilot was unhurt, just shaken.
"Amazingly, nobody else was hurt in the accident."
Captain of the coastguard helicopter, Mark Jackson, said the winching operation was not as straightforward as he would have liked.
"The difficulty, initially, was to try winching him from the stern. But it was so turbulent that we couldn't do it.
"So we had a little think about it. We spoke to the captain of the West Navion and came up with the idea to winch him from the helideck where the helicopter was lying on its side," he said.
"We winched from a height, so we did not affect the chopper at all, and that was relatively straightforward."
The BP spokesman said measures had been taken to prevent further problems on the ship.
"The helideck on the drill ship has been isolated and, as a precautionary measure, foam has been used to make the aircraft safe. The well has not been affected by the accident and has been made safe."
The crew due to be taken off the boat will have to remain on board until the damaged aircraft has been removed.
They will not have to work while they wait for transport, the BP spokesman said.
He added that the vessel has the capacity to accommodate the extra staff and there would be no bed shortages.
No helicopters will be able to land on the West Navion until the damaged helicopter has been removed.
Large cranes will have to be used to carry out the salvage operation. It has not yet been decided whether to get heavy lifting gear taken out to the West Navion or have the ship brought back to shore.
It is not known how long it would take to get a crane to the site.
BP will work in conjunction with Scotia and Smedvig to arrange removal of the helicopter.
The rotor blades of the helicopter were damaged when it rolled, the BP spokesman said. It was unclear yesterday whether there was any further damage.
"Until investigations are carried out no one is going near the craft," he said.
The rotor blades cut into the helideck causing some superficial damage, but this will not cause any operational difficulties.
The Super Puma is made by Eurocopter, a French-German consortium, and can take 20 passengers.
It is 18.7-metres long and has a top speed of 165mph and a range of 540 miles.
The disabled helicopter could be removed from the West Navion in a number of ways. Experts said the most likely method used to remove it would be by crane, either on shore or offshore.
The West Navion has been modified into a drilling rig so she can carry out drilling operations. She can manoeuvre like a ship but she has a drilling platform on board, so she can move from well to well. She was in the middle of a drilling programme at the time of the incident.
The drama could potentially have been much worse, if the aircraft had gone into the water or the rotors had struck the drilling equipment, the Aberdeen Coastguard spokeswoman said.
"It was a very, very unfortunate accident, but it's one of these things that could have been a lot worse. Safety measures were put into play immediately, preventing it being worse. Luckily, nobody was in the sea or more seriously injured. If the helicopter had gone into the sea it would have been a lot worse."
Twelve men were killed when the Super Puma helicopter they were travelling in crashed off the coast of Norway in September, 1997. It disappeared while on a flight to the Norne field in the Norwegian Sea. Super Pumas were voluntarily grounded for a short time after the crash.
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Question....
Is it taught, ie; part of a standard offshore flying training syllabus, to "fly the disc" whilst on a lively moving deck with rotors running? Up to now, I asumed this was fairly standard practice - but on the subject coming up for discussion, a couple of experienced pilots have stated they keep the cyclic central.
Most pilots I think, more or less naturally, input some opposite cyclic to the roll or pitch if they start feeling uncomfortable.
I seem to remember being taught this technique way back in the Navy, but can't remember it being specifically discussed or demonstrated during offshore training - bearing in mind that initial training DLP's and recurrency checks are almost always flown to a stable deck.
Any thoughts on the pros and cons of this?
Is it taught, ie; part of a standard offshore flying training syllabus, to "fly the disc" whilst on a lively moving deck with rotors running? Up to now, I asumed this was fairly standard practice - but on the subject coming up for discussion, a couple of experienced pilots have stated they keep the cyclic central.
Most pilots I think, more or less naturally, input some opposite cyclic to the roll or pitch if they start feeling uncomfortable.
I seem to remember being taught this technique way back in the Navy, but can't remember it being specifically discussed or demonstrated during offshore training - bearing in mind that initial training DLP's and recurrency checks are almost always flown to a stable deck.
Any thoughts on the pros and cons of this?
Thread Starter
In answer to your question TwistGrip, Operating Proceedures forbid us to 'Fly the Disc' whilst on a moving deck. While I feel the Super Puma does not present a particular problem in this regard due to its high rotor head, aircraft such as the S-76 would highly endanger deck crews if the disc was to be manouevered after landing - To stop this from happening, a Manual Disc Lock has been fitted folowing some pretty awful accidents.
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Twistgrip,
yes, I'm afraid I'm guilty of flying the disc during spells on a difficult deck. Most of us have probably landed on a deck that was out of limits due to "enthusiastic" reporting of the pitch, roll and heave. Once on the deck, there is little option but to fly the disc to counteract the oleo movement. I've done it on the S61N & the AS332 but do agree this would be dangerous on a helicopter having a low rotorblade clearance height.
yes, I'm afraid I'm guilty of flying the disc during spells on a difficult deck. Most of us have probably landed on a deck that was out of limits due to "enthusiastic" reporting of the pitch, roll and heave. Once on the deck, there is little option but to fly the disc to counteract the oleo movement. I've done it on the S61N & the AS332 but do agree this would be dangerous on a helicopter having a low rotorblade clearance height.
I did see an AAIB accident report some time ago on the web involving an S76 or Dauphin - can't remember which - and the loss of the life of a deck hand when a blade hit him.
I can't find it on the AAIB web site, but it seems to reinforce the point - low head, moving deck, BE VERY CAREFUL OUT THERE.
I can't find it on the AAIB web site, but it seems to reinforce the point - low head, moving deck, BE VERY CAREFUL OUT THERE.
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Seem to recall something about that too.
Ships crew member was stood at nose of a/c, the ship pitched and the a/c rolled back, and the guy didn't realise. The pilot put in a cyclic input, lowering the front range of the blades. Because he had rolled back, the guy was now at the tip of the blades, and got decapitated.
Something along those lines.
Not nice.
[ 15 November 2001: Message edited by: skidtoob ]
Ships crew member was stood at nose of a/c, the ship pitched and the a/c rolled back, and the guy didn't realise. The pilot put in a cyclic input, lowering the front range of the blades. Because he had rolled back, the guy was now at the tip of the blades, and got decapitated.
Something along those lines.
Not nice.
[ 15 November 2001: Message edited by: skidtoob ]
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Re: Flying the disc
Check out the posts on ditching relative to disc movement on a pitching,rolling deck or when the helicopter is on floats.
Check out the posts on ditching relative to disc movement on a pitching,rolling deck or when the helicopter is on floats.
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To: All re "Flying the disc"
I need some help but I don’t want to start an argument. Some of you address “Flying the disc” as standard practice and others state that their ops manual says not to do it. I spent a lot of time up in Greenland and in the Great Lakes as a flight mechanic both working on and flying in three types of helicopters. These were the HO4-S (S-55) the HO3-S (S-51) and the Bell HTL-1 (B-47) which was on floats. When the deck was pitching and rolling we had a lot of problems with the Sikorsky models during start up and in some cases we came damned close to going into resonance. The Bell had its’ own problems under the stated conditions. When the rotors were at speed we had additional problems regarding disc stability during heavy rolling and pitching which is common on icebreakers.
Now for the questions: What are you trying to counter by flying the disc? And, what do you do and in response to what. If you do fly the disc what in your mind would happen if you refrained from doing it?
Thanks for your assistance in this matter.
I need some help but I don’t want to start an argument. Some of you address “Flying the disc” as standard practice and others state that their ops manual says not to do it. I spent a lot of time up in Greenland and in the Great Lakes as a flight mechanic both working on and flying in three types of helicopters. These were the HO4-S (S-55) the HO3-S (S-51) and the Bell HTL-1 (B-47) which was on floats. When the deck was pitching and rolling we had a lot of problems with the Sikorsky models during start up and in some cases we came damned close to going into resonance. The Bell had its’ own problems under the stated conditions. When the rotors were at speed we had additional problems regarding disc stability during heavy rolling and pitching which is common on icebreakers.
Now for the questions: What are you trying to counter by flying the disc? And, what do you do and in response to what. If you do fly the disc what in your mind would happen if you refrained from doing it?
Thanks for your assistance in this matter.
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Lu,
Bascially, I think flying the disc, ie; putting in opposite cyclic to the vessel's pitch & roll, helps to keep the aircraft (particularly one with oleos) stable. Now before we possibly get into something highly technical, I have felt comfortable doing this (with a high rotor head - agree the 76 is too low for safety) and I prefer to feel comfortable if possible. This technique would only normally apply on a deck that is moving considerably. Therefore you are generally keeping the disc level with the horizon.
Perhaps relevant is that it is standard technique on the S Puma to apply cyclic into the turn when ground taxying to counteract the rolling moment - though in this case of course the disc will not be level.
Bascially, I think flying the disc, ie; putting in opposite cyclic to the vessel's pitch & roll, helps to keep the aircraft (particularly one with oleos) stable. Now before we possibly get into something highly technical, I have felt comfortable doing this (with a high rotor head - agree the 76 is too low for safety) and I prefer to feel comfortable if possible. This technique would only normally apply on a deck that is moving considerably. Therefore you are generally keeping the disc level with the horizon.
Perhaps relevant is that it is standard technique on the S Puma to apply cyclic into the turn when ground taxying to counteract the rolling moment - though in this case of course the disc will not be level.
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Sorry;
Can't see the point of flying the disk if the lever is fully down! I think some pilots do it to give them a comfortable feeling i.e.'at least I'm doing something'
Can't see the point of flying the disk if the lever is fully down! I think some pilots do it to give them a comfortable feeling i.e.'at least I'm doing something'
If the collective is fully down, and the speed selects at idle, what would be the point of "flying the disc"? Surely there would be little or no thrust from the disc, and little or no overall effect. Can't remember having to resort to such a move, even when sitting on the Capalonga (North Sea tyros from the 70's will remember the name with dread....) and seeing nearly 20 degrees of roll in a 212 
Having refused to go back after that episode, a B105 gave it a go and slid off the back end with all doors still open, and bits falling away left and right
Having refused to go back after that episode, a B105 gave it a go and slid off the back end with all doors still open, and bits falling away left and right