Enstrom Corner
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Location: Escrick York england
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I think it's not that he bought a pup but he hasn't got anyone engineering wise to look after it properly and is doing it himself as his pilots licence allows
I have had a few enstroms they are lovely helicopters and fly well but they do need attention by experienced enstrom engineers
I have had a few enstroms they are lovely helicopters and fly well but they do need attention by experienced enstrom engineers
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Yep I don't think the ship is a Dog but the mechanic that is so highly praised by the Enstrom peeps sure was. I think he just thought working on an Enstrom was beneath him so he cut many corners while charging the owner $5000+ for an annual every year. That is why I am not using him. I plan on taking myself and my mechanic to Enstrom school, but I just have a hard time with over $1500 each for 9 days of lectures. I might ask them if I flew up there with the ship would they walk us through a correct annual. I can't believe the previous owner, and by the looks of it, the mechanic didn't even have a service manual. All my information is from you guys and other forums. I put all the monetary reserve I had into this just so my rating wouldn't go to waste. It has been 4 years since all the rentable ships disappeared from anywhere around here. Before that I had to fly over 200 miles just to rent a 300B.
Last edited by lvflyer; 16th Mar 2015 at 22:52.
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Update: Ok we took a close look at the oleos. We jacked up the front of the cockpit and the right front oleo didn't extend. I let some of the air/nitrogen out of the right front and now it collapses and extends. I still don't think they have been serviced in a very long time. The rock was a lot less so I'm sure they are all wrong. Now to find someone or the equipment to get it done right. Have any of you rented a nitrogen bottle from a welding shop and have been able to service them. What is a normal cost at an FBO to check and fill? I still haven't heard from Bayard at Enstrom so I'm not sure on the pressures. I know helodriver said he uses 200lbs in the fronts when providing rides so what would a pilot by himself require and what would a single passenger require?
Last edited by lvflyer; 16th Mar 2015 at 22:53.
I'd be very cautions (i.e. wouldn't) about touching them - due to risk of ground resonance.
Final Report: Ground resonance destroyed helicopter | Aviation International News
Final Report: Ground resonance destroyed helicopter | Aviation International News
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irv
thats realy good news that the nice people at enstrom are still providing cheap support for their helicopters ,i have a eurocopter product at the moment the IPC was over £3000 ,the maint manual was over £3000 and the MDE was well over £3000 , and the training courses for engineers need a mortgage dont know how much a nine day course would be but i wouldnt want to pay it
well done enstrom
steve ex goswa,gbpoz,gosab,n485a and gxxxx cant remember the reg [480 ]
thats realy good news that the nice people at enstrom are still providing cheap support for their helicopters ,i have a eurocopter product at the moment the IPC was over £3000 ,the maint manual was over £3000 and the MDE was well over £3000 , and the training courses for engineers need a mortgage dont know how much a nine day course would be but i wouldnt want to pay it
well done enstrom
steve ex goswa,gbpoz,gosab,n485a and gxxxx cant remember the reg [480 ]
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struts
The landing gear oleo's are filled to 400 lb. AS far as the class being expensive you are right but I go back every couple of years just to see what is new and to keep up with the new models and with what has changed. I'm in a little different situation than most owners as to the cost because I'm not only an owner but an IA and make my living working on piston helicopters. A perfect example is the pressures, at one time it was 450 lb and at the last class I took in June it was 400lb. Remember that the struts also have 5606 oil in them and not just nitrogen ,they work like a damper and actually perform the same function. I hope this helps and if I can help in any way give me a call. BE SAFE and keep on flying. Bill Mott 570-729-7006
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Just poking my nose in to set you right regarding schooling costs.
The instructors are almost certainly NOT "1%-ers"
Start with the premises....capital cost, maintenance, heat ,light, insurance....Heck! you know what it costs to keep a home going...would be as cheap to rent a motel-room.
Loss of capital...if it's tied up in training, it can't be used to buy materials, labour, machine tools etc. th produce parts which make a profit.
Cost of people to actually work out and collate what needs to be done, when, and how.
Liability insurance....a biggie in the lawyer-led claim culture.
The staff to administer all these activities and liaise with people like yourself.
they made the profit on the initial sale and they make a profit on spares, but how many years is that profit spread over? the fact that there aren't many billionaires in the Heli-manufacturing industry,and,unlike banking, it's not crowded with fat-cats, would suggest the pickings are fairly lean.
Yes, it's a substantial sum, but compared with the cost of an annual, the longer you use what you've learnt, the cheaper it becomes.
I wonder how much it would have saved you if you'd done the Course BEFORE you purchased your machine?...you have had a very expensive and frustrating learning-curve so far....don't be "penny-wise, pound foolish"....just to add, I've no dog in the fight whatsoever.
The instructors are almost certainly NOT "1%-ers"
Start with the premises....capital cost, maintenance, heat ,light, insurance....Heck! you know what it costs to keep a home going...would be as cheap to rent a motel-room.
Loss of capital...if it's tied up in training, it can't be used to buy materials, labour, machine tools etc. th produce parts which make a profit.
Cost of people to actually work out and collate what needs to be done, when, and how.
Liability insurance....a biggie in the lawyer-led claim culture.
The staff to administer all these activities and liaise with people like yourself.
they made the profit on the initial sale and they make a profit on spares, but how many years is that profit spread over? the fact that there aren't many billionaires in the Heli-manufacturing industry,and,unlike banking, it's not crowded with fat-cats, would suggest the pickings are fairly lean.
Yes, it's a substantial sum, but compared with the cost of an annual, the longer you use what you've learnt, the cheaper it becomes.
I wonder how much it would have saved you if you'd done the Course BEFORE you purchased your machine?...you have had a very expensive and frustrating learning-curve so far....don't be "penny-wise, pound foolish"....just to add, I've no dog in the fight whatsoever.
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Does your engineer not have a tracking and balancing kit? Enstrom's can be made to fly smoothly. There is a host of things that might be causing the vibrations. If the vibration cannot be reduced sufficiently by tracking and balancing then there is probably something worn. Places to check would be the swashplate then the head. There are 12 bearings in the head that don;t last for ever and if one or more of them is not moving smoothly they will need to be replaced to get the vibrations down to an acceptable level.
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Also check the dampers are bled properly. You can try swinging the blades for and aft with your hand whilst on the ground,(hold tip of blade in your hand and swing forwards and backwards about one foot) this will swill the oil around in the dampers, check to "feel" all three blades are the same.
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During my time on Enstroms (F28A and F28C) we had four in our fleet and looked after half a dozen owners' machines. I spent an extraordinary amount of time doing track and balance on them and I got the impression that some can be smoothed out and some just can't, but none of them stayed smooth for long. I certainly recognise that wunper as a particularly stubborn one to deal with. There certainly was the odd machine that was just rough and could not be smoothed out no matter what you did.
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Enstrom
Hallo IV Flyer ... as an experienced Enstrom pilot and FI, I have to endorse the last two posts. Please have a type experienced engineer go through the drive system as from the two videos you have posted, the level of cabin vibration is excessive. If you do not know, the rotor blade tracking with Vibrex tracking equipment or similar should bring the accelerations to UNDER .1 (being one tenth of an inch per second.) I'm sure your engineer will know all this. Suspect components can be Lamiflex bearings, dampers, excessive friction in the control system or possibly just poor RB tracking.
Enjoy your Enstrom. DRK
Enjoy your Enstrom. DRK
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Thanks for your input all. The Lamiflex bearings were replaced before I took delivery and I was told by the seller that the readings were .1ips. I can say that the difference between initial test flight before purchase and the flight just before delivery was night and day. Before I couldn't read the instruments it shook so bad in the hover and after the replacement it was smooth. I can now hover practically hands off and I can fly hands off for a while as well, but I don't know what .1ips should feel like. I don't trust the AP that worked on this and nobody else does track and balance so I was considering investing in a Dynavibe since Bayard DuPont at Enstrom tested the system and approves. The vibration is primarily in forward flight so I assume that is tracking more than balance. I hope to fly up north a bit this summer and have a couple former owners of this ship take a ride and tell me if everthing is normal. I'll try the swinging the blades as described and I plan on getting the bleed kit from Bayard. I'm in the process of getting the tools and nitrogen tank together to properly service the struts, but that shake on take off has settled down since I let some pressure out of one of the fronts. I'll do it properly when the weather warms up. It's sitting in the hangar with space heaters now anyway.
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If it is primarily in forward flight chances are it will need a trim tab adjustment. As I said earlier get an Engineer who is experienced on Enstroms. Anyone working on helicopters without a tracking and balancing machine is pissing about.
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I don't know how it translates to full-size,...but.....model helis are very critical on blade-balance.....chordwise is just as important as lengthwise,and , of course, the perfectly -balanced blade should weigh exactly the same as any of the others on the same rotorhead.
When you're running 2,000 RPM headspeed, with almost a 2-metre diameter rotary scythe that's as fast and twitchy as hell, you want it right!
The bigger they are, the easier to fly,(inertia and gyroscopic effect) but the more important accurate dynamic balance, track and good bearings in the system.
When you're running 2,000 RPM headspeed, with almost a 2-metre diameter rotary scythe that's as fast and twitchy as hell, you want it right!
The bigger they are, the easier to fly,(inertia and gyroscopic effect) but the more important accurate dynamic balance, track and good bearings in the system.
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I think some of the later Enstroms are much smother as Enstrom have started building better blades since the 480 has been in production.
Its far more critical with the extra weight and RRPM.
Also I have found it is very important to have a matched set of blades if you want a good ride and stick.
Keep flying and have a Great Christmas and Happy New Year to every one.
Its far more critical with the extra weight and RRPM.
Also I have found it is very important to have a matched set of blades if you want a good ride and stick.
Keep flying and have a Great Christmas and Happy New Year to every one.
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I know what you mean. I flew a Tiger 50. That thing would thrash itself with the lightest off balance, but I think that was due to the high rotor RPM. Big difference in full size and if it was that critical flying through bugs would cause a crash.
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Has anyone had experience with the PB-3 track and balance analyzer? I can't afford a Chadwick and was considering a Dynavibe when I came across the PB-3. I received the following when I inquired to see if it would work on a 3-blade system. The only thing I see is that there is only one accelerometer which means it would have to be moved and tests repeated to get horzontal and vertical. I'm interested in your comments and I know this is best left up to someone with experience, but around here that isn't an option. This also looks like something that may be mounted permanently for constant monitoring as well. Here is what I was sent:
> Is the PB-3 OK to use with an Enstrom 280C? Can you refer me to any
> user that has experience using this with an Enstrom or other 3 blade
> helicopter? Where do I buy in the states? I was considering a
> Dynavibe till I read about this.
Sorry, because the rotor balancing capability of the PB-3 is very new,
I only know about its use with 2 bladed gyro rotors. A couple of
customers have started using it with helicopters but I haven't had any
feedback from them yet.
As far as the PB-3 is concerned, I can't see any reason why it can't be
used to balance a 3 bladed rotor. It should still be able to measure
the vibration phase and magnitude. The real unknown is whether the PB-3
app's support for move lines is adequate for that application. At this
time, the app only supports 2 move lines. Mind you, that's better than
what the Dynavibe supports because that product doesn't make any
attempt whatsoever to suggest adjustments. I expect in the future the
app will be extended to make it more useful for helicopter rotor
balancing.
At the end of the day, you could still use the PB-3 to measure the
vibration values and then plot them manually on a paper polar chart that
shows the move lines that have been determined by the helicopter's
manufacturer. That's all the Dynavibe can do, anyway.
Worldwide sales of the PB-3 are direct from Smart Avionics. The
prop+rotor version of the PB-3 costs 650 UKP and UPS shipping to the USA
is 60 UKP. Payment is by PayPal or bank transfer. Current lead time is
less than 1 week.
Cheers,
Mark
--
Smart Avionics Ltd. -- producer of innovative avionics for homebuilt
aircraft.
> Is the PB-3 OK to use with an Enstrom 280C? Can you refer me to any
> user that has experience using this with an Enstrom or other 3 blade
> helicopter? Where do I buy in the states? I was considering a
> Dynavibe till I read about this.
Sorry, because the rotor balancing capability of the PB-3 is very new,
I only know about its use with 2 bladed gyro rotors. A couple of
customers have started using it with helicopters but I haven't had any
feedback from them yet.
As far as the PB-3 is concerned, I can't see any reason why it can't be
used to balance a 3 bladed rotor. It should still be able to measure
the vibration phase and magnitude. The real unknown is whether the PB-3
app's support for move lines is adequate for that application. At this
time, the app only supports 2 move lines. Mind you, that's better than
what the Dynavibe supports because that product doesn't make any
attempt whatsoever to suggest adjustments. I expect in the future the
app will be extended to make it more useful for helicopter rotor
balancing.
At the end of the day, you could still use the PB-3 to measure the
vibration values and then plot them manually on a paper polar chart that
shows the move lines that have been determined by the helicopter's
manufacturer. That's all the Dynavibe can do, anyway.
Worldwide sales of the PB-3 are direct from Smart Avionics. The
prop+rotor version of the PB-3 costs 650 UKP and UPS shipping to the USA
is 60 UKP. Payment is by PayPal or bank transfer. Current lead time is
less than 1 week.
Cheers,
Mark
--
Smart Avionics Ltd. -- producer of innovative avionics for homebuilt
aircraft.
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Messing about
I am an experienced enstrom engineer and I have to say that messing with the trim tabs for forward flight adjustment would not be recommended as the trim tabs are for stick shack adjustments only, for correct reflex angle of the blades.