HUET recency.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
From: australia
Just for your interest, they have just finished the process of commissioning the HUET trainer for the new Australian Defence Force Tiger choppers. Based in Darwin, NT, the module itself is two cockpit mockups, one front seat and one back seat made of stainless steel. The cockpits are actually joined nose to nose so crew can look at each other, unlike the real machine and the roll actuator is basically just a big air tank on the botton of the cockpit structure that will flip the whole rig over once it sinks into the water. The Pilot station has a stick and collective built into it and both stations have a seat mounted in the module complete with all straps and harness etc. I saw the inital demonstration dunks. The rig is suspended on an outdoor crane and gets lowered into a crystal clear, warm swimming pool at a nice slow pace in a perfectly level attitude and then slowly rolls over as it gets deeper. Crew then unhook the straps and swim out. It does not have any opening doors or window perspex installed, just the frames to represent where the doors and glass would be. I have to say, it did not look too challenging. Nice slow dunks and rolls, no jammed exits or obstructions, warm clear water.............. I guess that it's to the specs that the Army required and I certainly hope that it prepares the pilots for a real water escape but most chopper landings on water would be something more turbulent and chaotic I would imagine.
Joined: Sep 2002
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,721
Likes: 636
From: Great South East, tired and retired
I recall seeing a US Navy film from the 50s showing "Dilbert Dunker", a side-by-side cockpit frame with seats. It sat atop a set of rails, about 10' above the edge of the pool. On "go" it slid down the rails and hit the water headfirst with quite an impact, and then rolled over the nose to inverted.
I suppose in those days there was no Occupational Health and Safety Act, and as a result it was fairly realistic.
I hope the Tiger sim gets some doors (jammable) and seat belts (jammable) and they wear blackout goggles for the night ops and murky water.
I suppose in those days there was no Occupational Health and Safety Act, and as a result it was fairly realistic.
I hope the Tiger sim gets some doors (jammable) and seat belts (jammable) and they wear blackout goggles for the night ops and murky water.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 224
Likes: 2
From: Depends on the day!
As AC has pointed out I don't think that anyone would get away with slamming a dunker into the water these days. I magine the laesuits involved in a crook back or similair.
It sounds like they could notch up the under water part though.
Any training is good training I guess.
hemac,
Some type of breathing device incorporated into the life jacket would be sensational. Some of the bottles I have looked at are up to 32cmx5cm. That's a pretty bulky device to have strapped outside your life jacket that could end up being what snags you.
This may sound like a stupid question(because it may be a stupid question!) but is there any means by storing the oxygen in a high press. hose say, 120cmx2-2.5cm and coiling it within a jacket as to not add any extra protrusions?
Bigchopper,
What happened mate? You got booted off.
Weee bet rrrrude!
From my experience it is the lazy people that look forward to days off.
Have you ever had your kilt snared while trying to egress?
Have you ever considered playing amazing grace on the bag pipes on the way down and then using that as a breathing device to escape?
It sounds like they could notch up the under water part though.
Any training is good training I guess.
hemac,
Some type of breathing device incorporated into the life jacket would be sensational. Some of the bottles I have looked at are up to 32cmx5cm. That's a pretty bulky device to have strapped outside your life jacket that could end up being what snags you.
This may sound like a stupid question(because it may be a stupid question!) but is there any means by storing the oxygen in a high press. hose say, 120cmx2-2.5cm and coiling it within a jacket as to not add any extra protrusions?
Bigchopper,
What happened mate? You got booted off.
Weee bet rrrrude!
From my experience it is the lazy people that look forward to days off.
Have you ever had your kilt snared while trying to egress?
Have you ever considered playing amazing grace on the bag pipes on the way down and then using that as a breathing device to escape?
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
STASS / SpareAir Limitations
Hello,
I am a keen tech diver as well as pilot, so have a couple of cents to chip in. I think GadgetGuru's post is excellent.
I fully agree that continued recurrency training is the only way to keep your skills sharp. After a year, your knowledge of a subject may still be fresh, but your physical skill and ability may well have eroded.
ABSOLUTELY IMPORTANT: I also would like to go further to stress the importance of breathing out as you ascend. ONLY IF USING A STASS or UNDERWATER BREATHING APARATUS.
In addition, I would like to suggest, that anyone using a 'Spare air' or pony-type bottle (for emergency egress or recreational diving) really consider the limitations of this system and get proper training, before adding them to your emergency equipment. Test on it, and train with it or IT WILL KILL YOU! No point in having something, and then when you really need it, you find you can't turn it on or it runs out!
Some simple maths...It holds 85 litres at 200 bar so its is 0.42 litres in size. Assume a 10 m/min ascent rate (to allow for delay in egress and equipment / clothing drag)
Assuming our 40 lpm panic breath rate (and I've seen higher).
10m bail requres 80 l so OK (Just)
20m bail requires 120 l so you're dead
30m bail requires 160 l so you're very dead
Even assuming a 20l breath rate (and many people use more than this at rest)
10m bail requres 40 l so OK
20m bail requires 60 l so you're OK
30m bail requires 80 l so you're OK (just)
As you can see from this, it could be easy to run out very quickly unless you are pretty focused, fit and well practiced. It is definitely not a system to use to return to depth and attempt a rescue of others.
I personally have not been that keen on them because the capacity of these systems is usually too small for they type of diving I am doing. However for Helicopter emergency egress I fully support their use (with proper training). As they say 'owt is better than nowt'. Any little thing can help.
The most important thing is to 'STOP, ASSESS, ACT'.
cl12pv2s
I am a keen tech diver as well as pilot, so have a couple of cents to chip in. I think GadgetGuru's post is excellent.
I fully agree that continued recurrency training is the only way to keep your skills sharp. After a year, your knowledge of a subject may still be fresh, but your physical skill and ability may well have eroded.
ABSOLUTELY IMPORTANT: I also would like to go further to stress the importance of breathing out as you ascend. ONLY IF USING A STASS or UNDERWATER BREATHING APARATUS.
In addition, I would like to suggest, that anyone using a 'Spare air' or pony-type bottle (for emergency egress or recreational diving) really consider the limitations of this system and get proper training, before adding them to your emergency equipment. Test on it, and train with it or IT WILL KILL YOU! No point in having something, and then when you really need it, you find you can't turn it on or it runs out!
Some simple maths...It holds 85 litres at 200 bar so its is 0.42 litres in size. Assume a 10 m/min ascent rate (to allow for delay in egress and equipment / clothing drag)
Assuming our 40 lpm panic breath rate (and I've seen higher).
10m bail requres 80 l so OK (Just)
20m bail requires 120 l so you're dead
30m bail requires 160 l so you're very dead
Even assuming a 20l breath rate (and many people use more than this at rest)
10m bail requres 40 l so OK
20m bail requires 60 l so you're OK
30m bail requires 80 l so you're OK (just)
As you can see from this, it could be easy to run out very quickly unless you are pretty focused, fit and well practiced. It is definitely not a system to use to return to depth and attempt a rescue of others.
I personally have not been that keen on them because the capacity of these systems is usually too small for they type of diving I am doing. However for Helicopter emergency egress I fully support their use (with proper training). As they say 'owt is better than nowt'. Any little thing can help.
The most important thing is to 'STOP, ASSESS, ACT'.
cl12pv2s
