North Sea Recruitment
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North Sea Recruitment
Does anyone have the accurate tally on the number of Captains leaving the North Sea. Last I heard was 4 gone from Bristow and 12 from Scotia in the last 2 months.
Where are the new pilots coming from - Various rumours abound that Scotia are resuming Ab-Initio training and another story that Bristow and Scotia were going to set up a joint training school in the US, based on Bristows existing school over there. Any truth to any of this ??
Where are the new pilots coming from - Various rumours abound that Scotia are resuming Ab-Initio training and another story that Bristow and Scotia were going to set up a joint training school in the US, based on Bristows existing school over there. Any truth to any of this ??
Guest
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Sounds about right.
I don't think anybody knows where the new pilots will come from. The oil companies are planning a lot of work this summer on the North Sea and both companies are pretty much working to their limits at the moment. Bristows probably has some slack in the system at the moment but that'll be used up very quickly.
I think the management are planning to fill the gaps with contract pilots and where they are coming from is anyone's guess! Mind you the problem may be with a shortage of aircraft rather than with pilots.
Night Sun
I don't think anybody knows where the new pilots will come from. The oil companies are planning a lot of work this summer on the North Sea and both companies are pretty much working to their limits at the moment. Bristows probably has some slack in the system at the moment but that'll be used up very quickly.
I think the management are planning to fill the gaps with contract pilots and where they are coming from is anyone's guess! Mind you the problem may be with a shortage of aircraft rather than with pilots.
Night Sun
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Why would a company like Scotia, start ab-initio training? There are plenty of commercial pilots out there who are just desperate to find work. I know of at least 5 with between 500 and 1000 hours who just keep getting turned away without even an interview. Surely it's cheaper to take those guys on.
I posted a thread a few days ago titled, "Experience?" most poeple say the pilots with the experience get the jobs??!!
I'm confused.
I posted a thread a few days ago titled, "Experience?" most poeple say the pilots with the experience get the jobs??!!
I'm confused.
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Offshoreigor
I don't agree that Bristow and CHC wouldn't cooperate with something like pilot training.
In the late 1970s, Bristow used to train pilots for the then British Airways Helicopters.
Since then, Bristow bought some Super Pumas and S76s from CHC when they were doing the Helikopter Service buy out. Both companies have a history of cooperating when they need to, especially if it reduces their costs.
In fact, since the CHC buy out of HS, there has been some other cooperation as well but I might get into trouble if I was to write about it here.
All is not what you see my friend.
I don't agree that Bristow and CHC wouldn't cooperate with something like pilot training.
In the late 1970s, Bristow used to train pilots for the then British Airways Helicopters.
Since then, Bristow bought some Super Pumas and S76s from CHC when they were doing the Helikopter Service buy out. Both companies have a history of cooperating when they need to, especially if it reduces their costs.
In fact, since the CHC buy out of HS, there has been some other cooperation as well but I might get into trouble if I was to write about it here.
All is not what you see my friend.
Guest
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You won't get into trouble sharing it here with your friends, LE! There is not a single contributor who would not maintain the confidence of anything discussed within the confines of our intimate circle!
So you tell us your bit, and I'll tell you mine!
You going to buy me a beer at the HAI this year? I sadly have no money, so will have to look to my good friends for beer!
So you tell us your bit, and I'll tell you mine!
You going to buy me a beer at the HAI this year? I sadly have no money, so will have to look to my good friends for beer!
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Cyclic
I would be happy to put my hand in my pocket and buy you a few beers but I cannot guarantee being at the HAI this year, but I am sure that there are many others who will also be happy to put a Bud in your hand.
I wish I could reveal the specific extent of cooperation but unfortunately, fear and the need for a paycheck will not allow it.
However, it is ALLEGED by a recently departed BHL employee that it includes quoting rates that ensure that either BHL or CHC get specific contracts.
This is seen as the way to raise rates although I am sure it won't be passed on to the crews. Funny how their salaries are almost identical in amount and only differ in structure and composition. You don't think that...... no, surely not.
I would be happy to put my hand in my pocket and buy you a few beers but I cannot guarantee being at the HAI this year, but I am sure that there are many others who will also be happy to put a Bud in your hand.
I wish I could reveal the specific extent of cooperation but unfortunately, fear and the need for a paycheck will not allow it.
However, it is ALLEGED by a recently departed BHL employee that it includes quoting rates that ensure that either BHL or CHC get specific contracts.
This is seen as the way to raise rates although I am sure it won't be passed on to the crews. Funny how their salaries are almost identical in amount and only differ in structure and composition. You don't think that...... no, surely not.
Guest
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BHL and Brintel have always worked together from a training point of view. One company having a 61 sim and the other the Puma sim with pilots using each others simulators. I am aware that the latest co-pilots at Scotia were type coverted onto the Super Puma by Bristows as Scotia didn't have a training licence in place.
I think most pilots are aware that Leading Edge knows what he's talking about - There is a lot more going on behind the scenes than even the most suspicious of us would imagine !
I think most pilots are aware that Leading Edge knows what he's talking about - There is a lot more going on behind the scenes than even the most suspicious of us would imagine !
Guest
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Leading Edge is right about what he says there has been gossip suggesting that for a about a year now.
The co-pilots converted on to the Super Puma were originally Bristow pilots on gardening leave. When Bristow lost some major contracts in the summer of 00 they were 'sold' to Scotia and their bonds were transferred with them.
Fishboy, the problem with the recruiting on the North Sea at the moment is the lack of experience available. Both companies have plenty of co-pilots but what Scotia lacks particulary is Captains. You'll notice that the majority of departing pilots are Captains and it is these guys which are hard to replace. Experience of between 500 - 1000 hours is of no use to either company at the moment. Most OIL companies require aircraft commanders with 3000+ hours with twin engine, night, IMC and North Sea experience. This requirement usually forms part of the contract.
Night Sun
The co-pilots converted on to the Super Puma were originally Bristow pilots on gardening leave. When Bristow lost some major contracts in the summer of 00 they were 'sold' to Scotia and their bonds were transferred with them.
Fishboy, the problem with the recruiting on the North Sea at the moment is the lack of experience available. Both companies have plenty of co-pilots but what Scotia lacks particulary is Captains. You'll notice that the majority of departing pilots are Captains and it is these guys which are hard to replace. Experience of between 500 - 1000 hours is of no use to either company at the moment. Most OIL companies require aircraft commanders with 3000+ hours with twin engine, night, IMC and North Sea experience. This requirement usually forms part of the contract.
Night Sun
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mrfish
You could try contacting Bristow's personnel department at Redhill (01737 822353)
Speak to Steve Medlin if he is still there or call Aberdeen and ask for Peter Barnes
(01224 723151)If they do not deal direct then they can point you in the right direction anyway.
Night Sun and Special, thanks for the
re-enforcement of my comments. You are correct that BHL and Scotia are short of Captains, they are the ones who have been laid off, early retired or moved on to other pastures. Most oil company minimums are around 3000 hrs as you say, it is fairly standard even on international contracts.
I'm afraid it is all due to risk management and safety cases which makes it hard to get into the industry with any less time unless there are vacancies for co-pilots.
The future is interesting with around 70-80% of pilots being over 40 and 50% being over 50. The onset of diseases like diabetes and heart disease in the ever ageing helicopter pilot population is compounding the problem.
You could try contacting Bristow's personnel department at Redhill (01737 822353)
Speak to Steve Medlin if he is still there or call Aberdeen and ask for Peter Barnes
(01224 723151)If they do not deal direct then they can point you in the right direction anyway.
Night Sun and Special, thanks for the
re-enforcement of my comments. You are correct that BHL and Scotia are short of Captains, they are the ones who have been laid off, early retired or moved on to other pastures. Most oil company minimums are around 3000 hrs as you say, it is fairly standard even on international contracts.
I'm afraid it is all due to risk management and safety cases which makes it hard to get into the industry with any less time unless there are vacancies for co-pilots.
The future is interesting with around 70-80% of pilots being over 40 and 50% being over 50. The onset of diseases like diabetes and heart disease in the ever ageing helicopter pilot population is compounding the problem.
Guest
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Thanks Nightsun, I thought it was simply "people" that they wanted. I can certainly understand their requirment for captains.
I think everyone has known for a long time now, that there is an upcoming pilot shortage.
I guess that Scotia and Bristows etc. will have to give early promotion to co-pilots. Failing that, they will have to offer some all important cash to the qualified guys that are leaving.
I don't have a solution but what are they waiting for? A situation where they can't meet contract requirements?
Still don't understand them starting ab-initio training.
[This message has been edited by fishboy (edited 09 January 2001).]
I think everyone has known for a long time now, that there is an upcoming pilot shortage.
I guess that Scotia and Bristows etc. will have to give early promotion to co-pilots. Failing that, they will have to offer some all important cash to the qualified guys that are leaving.
I don't have a solution but what are they waiting for? A situation where they can't meet contract requirements?
Still don't understand them starting ab-initio training.
[This message has been edited by fishboy (edited 09 January 2001).]
Guest
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Don't be so quick to knock the idea of Ab-Inition training. As everyone has said above, the problem is in a real inbalance of the pilot workforce, too many 35ish guys leaving to go fixed wing, while those of us quite long in the tooth being laid-off or coming up for retirement now.
Scotia have a few new co-pilots but I know Bristow haven't taken on any baby pilots for 3 or so years. With a future pilot shortage well documented, and no prospect of an influx of pilots through traditional channels (ie military) the Scotia / Bristow management must have been thinking along the training lines. It takes at least 15 months to get them on-line earning money for the company so I wouldn't consider new training sponsorships an unlikely prospect.
p.s. I also heard from a friend of a friends, cleaning lady's, uncle's best mate, that they knew someone selected for a Scotia course - And you can't get more concrete than that ! I'll try to find out more.
Scotia have a few new co-pilots but I know Bristow haven't taken on any baby pilots for 3 or so years. With a future pilot shortage well documented, and no prospect of an influx of pilots through traditional channels (ie military) the Scotia / Bristow management must have been thinking along the training lines. It takes at least 15 months to get them on-line earning money for the company so I wouldn't consider new training sponsorships an unlikely prospect.
p.s. I also heard from a friend of a friends, cleaning lady's, uncle's best mate, that they knew someone selected for a Scotia course - And you can't get more concrete than that ! I'll try to find out more.
Guest
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To go to the first entry in this item, I think it is 7 captains in BHL ABZ/SCS who have gone either through retirement or on to fixed wing. Still been no promotions for the senior captains and other captains back from oveseas who are presently flying as co-pilots though!! Although there has been a recent command made at Norwich much to many's disgust (not the person, but the fact that the company evidently went against an agreement made with Balpa over a command wait list, or so I hear)
Rumour abounds that there will be a course starting in the summer for ab-initio pilots with BHL. As with the rumour of the Skoda (sorry Scotia) course, there are evidently already people nominated.
Lack of aircraft will certainly be a problem if there is a large increase in work if only for the fact that a Super Puma has just gone to Brazil and a S-61 (or possibly 2) are off to the US soon.
Rumour abounds that there will be a course starting in the summer for ab-initio pilots with BHL. As with the rumour of the Skoda (sorry Scotia) course, there are evidently already people nominated.
Lack of aircraft will certainly be a problem if there is a large increase in work if only for the fact that a Super Puma has just gone to Brazil and a S-61 (or possibly 2) are off to the US soon.
Guest
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Traditionally on the North Sea the companies have held a slight surplus of pilots to cater for the very cyclical nature of the business. However since the Oil Companies put the severe thumbscrews on, that has not been the case for several years.
There have been occasions when the supply of pilots have been insufficient, mainly in circumstances similar to those that exist at the moment; Depreciating pay levels, the hire and fire mentality every few years and the perception that the up cycle will not last more than a couple of years. The younger captains have seen how the old hands have been treated, mainly at Bristows, and have decided to jump before they fall into the age trap.
The companies have got around this problem in the past by cozy deals with the CAA (SRG safety reduction group) resulting in pilots from Australia/ New Zealand being recruited on short contracts. No doubt they will repeat this or of course find pilots from Europe or possibly Eastern Europe! They will probably have the magic 3000 hours but usually not obtained in the intense instrument environment, but who cares hours are hours!
One thing is for sure, there is no way anyone is going to improve pay and conditions to attempt to retain the experience they are presently losing. It would just go against the grain!
If any of you are thinking of going Fixed wing, as you are no doubt aware, the time is right. It is not all roses but at least you would be going to an expanding vibrant industry rather than an under funded has been, that is in terminal decline. Good luck to you!
There have been occasions when the supply of pilots have been insufficient, mainly in circumstances similar to those that exist at the moment; Depreciating pay levels, the hire and fire mentality every few years and the perception that the up cycle will not last more than a couple of years. The younger captains have seen how the old hands have been treated, mainly at Bristows, and have decided to jump before they fall into the age trap.
The companies have got around this problem in the past by cozy deals with the CAA (SRG safety reduction group) resulting in pilots from Australia/ New Zealand being recruited on short contracts. No doubt they will repeat this or of course find pilots from Europe or possibly Eastern Europe! They will probably have the magic 3000 hours but usually not obtained in the intense instrument environment, but who cares hours are hours!
One thing is for sure, there is no way anyone is going to improve pay and conditions to attempt to retain the experience they are presently losing. It would just go against the grain!
If any of you are thinking of going Fixed wing, as you are no doubt aware, the time is right. It is not all roses but at least you would be going to an expanding vibrant industry rather than an under funded has been, that is in terminal decline. Good luck to you!
Guest
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Need Advise,
Offshore captain mid 40's here,been through several layoffs over the past 20 years and fed up with the way things are shapping up. 1.Am I too old for the airlines 2.How long before I can make the money I presently earn 3.Even with no fixed wing time can i get on jets.4. Who do I contact and how much will it cost me??? Anyone out there able to help out a dumb old pilot. You guys that have made the switch , was it worth it???
Offshore captain mid 40's here,been through several layoffs over the past 20 years and fed up with the way things are shapping up. 1.Am I too old for the airlines 2.How long before I can make the money I presently earn 3.Even with no fixed wing time can i get on jets.4. Who do I contact and how much will it cost me??? Anyone out there able to help out a dumb old pilot. You guys that have made the switch , was it worth it???
