Training & Flying in America: Visa information
The Oracle
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Training & Flying in America: Visa information
I am writing this thread because there is still much confusion about what the requirements are to fly or train in the U.S.A. Please do not let the length of this post stop you from reading it. Look at numbers 1 to 5, to decide whether or not need a Visa. If you are required to have a Visa, it is very important to make sure you understand the steps you must follow. The process is straight forward and there are people that will help you every step of the way.
On the 12th of April 2002 the immigration rules changed and affected flight training in the U.S.A.
Who needs a Visa and what type will you need:
1) If you are coming to hour build or a flying holiday and have a FAA Licence or an FAA licence issued on the basis of your Foreign Licence, you can enter the country on a Visa Waiver and fly as long as you meet the F.A.R.s. (BFR, Medical, etc.)
2) If you need to convert your licence to a Restricted F.A.A. Licence, you will need to submit the request to the F.A.A. in Oklahoma City so they can do a full background check; this process takes upwards of 60 days. If you get the o.k. to convert your licence you can enter the country on a Visa Waiver.
If you do not have the time to wait to convert your licence, you can take the F.A.A. Written Test and the Flight Test in order to get an Unrestricted F.A.A. Licence. In order to do this you will need to be on an F-1, M-1, or J-1 Visa. (Since you are seeking a Licence/Rating)
If you decide not to convert your licence and just fly on an F.A.A. Student Solo Certificate, you will once again need to be on an F-1, M-1, or J-1 Visa. (Since it is a Student Licence)
3) Going to the U.S.A. in order to train for a J.A.A. or F.A.A. Licence. You must be on a F-1, M-1, J-1 Visa. (Since you are seeking a Licence/Rating)
4) If you are coming to the U.S.A. in order to revalidate you licence, either F.A.A. or J.A.A., you can come on a Visa Waiver since that is a currency requirement and you are not adding a Rating/Licence. This is subject to change since the authorities are looking at this situation and there are people in I.N.S. which want this to require a Visa.
5) If you have entered the U.S.A. on holiday and while here decided to do flight training. Should you want to train in the U.S.A. after you arrive in the U.S.A. and are on a B Visa, you can apply to change your status to F-1/M-1/J-1 Visa and must wait till your status is changed before you can begin training. If you entered the U.S.A. on a Visa Waiver, you will have to leave the country, obtain the appropriate Visa and then return to train. The Visa Waiver is NOT a Visa and therefore you do not have a Visa to change status on.
Where do you find the information:
If you have any questions about what Visas you are required to have, contact the U.S. Embassy in your country. They are the direct source. Anything else is "hear say", even this thread is technically "hear say". The U.S. Embassy will give you definitive answers on any requirements on entering the U.S.A.
The most common Visa for J.A.A. flight training in the U.S.A. is the M-1 Visa. Here is a thread which I posted on October 03, 2001 explaining the M-1 Visa:
M-1 Visa Explained
The changes since that thread was posted are:
When you go to the Embassy you need to bring:
1) A letter from the school you are going to attend listing the max takeoff weight of the aircraft or simulator you are going to train in.
2) Completed Form DS-0156
3) Completed Form DS-0158
4) Completed Form DS-0157 (If you are Male between the ages of 16 and 45)
This process will take on average 7 to 10 days.
What are the actual INS Regulations:
These are the rules which were added on 12th of April 2002 by FR 11-02 in order to close the loopholes in flight training:
Requiring Change of Status From B to F-1 or M-1 Nonimmigrant Prior to Pursuing a Course of Study
The changes were made to:
8 CFR PART 214 -- NONIMMIGRANT CLASSES
and
8 CFR PART 248 -- CHANGE OF NONIMMIGRANT CLASSIFICATION
The Visa Waiver Program:
8 CFR PART 217 -- VISA WAIVER PROGRAM
Note the Visa Waiver Program does not allow any training of any kind in the U.S.A.
If anyone tells you to lie to the Immigration Officer when you enter the country (ie. say you are on holiday), that means they know the Laws and are knowingly telling you to Violate them. Be sure to check with the U.S. Embassy if you have any questions.
I hope this helps anyone wanting to fly in the U.S.A. enter the U.S.A. correctly.
Happy Flying,
Capt. Richard J. Gentil, Pres.
Naples Air Center, Inc.
On the 12th of April 2002 the immigration rules changed and affected flight training in the U.S.A.
Who needs a Visa and what type will you need:
1) If you are coming to hour build or a flying holiday and have a FAA Licence or an FAA licence issued on the basis of your Foreign Licence, you can enter the country on a Visa Waiver and fly as long as you meet the F.A.R.s. (BFR, Medical, etc.)
2) If you need to convert your licence to a Restricted F.A.A. Licence, you will need to submit the request to the F.A.A. in Oklahoma City so they can do a full background check; this process takes upwards of 60 days. If you get the o.k. to convert your licence you can enter the country on a Visa Waiver.
If you do not have the time to wait to convert your licence, you can take the F.A.A. Written Test and the Flight Test in order to get an Unrestricted F.A.A. Licence. In order to do this you will need to be on an F-1, M-1, or J-1 Visa. (Since you are seeking a Licence/Rating)
If you decide not to convert your licence and just fly on an F.A.A. Student Solo Certificate, you will once again need to be on an F-1, M-1, or J-1 Visa. (Since it is a Student Licence)
3) Going to the U.S.A. in order to train for a J.A.A. or F.A.A. Licence. You must be on a F-1, M-1, J-1 Visa. (Since you are seeking a Licence/Rating)
4) If you are coming to the U.S.A. in order to revalidate you licence, either F.A.A. or J.A.A., you can come on a Visa Waiver since that is a currency requirement and you are not adding a Rating/Licence. This is subject to change since the authorities are looking at this situation and there are people in I.N.S. which want this to require a Visa.
5) If you have entered the U.S.A. on holiday and while here decided to do flight training. Should you want to train in the U.S.A. after you arrive in the U.S.A. and are on a B Visa, you can apply to change your status to F-1/M-1/J-1 Visa and must wait till your status is changed before you can begin training. If you entered the U.S.A. on a Visa Waiver, you will have to leave the country, obtain the appropriate Visa and then return to train. The Visa Waiver is NOT a Visa and therefore you do not have a Visa to change status on.
Where do you find the information:
If you have any questions about what Visas you are required to have, contact the U.S. Embassy in your country. They are the direct source. Anything else is "hear say", even this thread is technically "hear say". The U.S. Embassy will give you definitive answers on any requirements on entering the U.S.A.
The most common Visa for J.A.A. flight training in the U.S.A. is the M-1 Visa. Here is a thread which I posted on October 03, 2001 explaining the M-1 Visa:
M-1 Visa Explained
The changes since that thread was posted are:
When you go to the Embassy you need to bring:
1) A letter from the school you are going to attend listing the max takeoff weight of the aircraft or simulator you are going to train in.
2) Completed Form DS-0156
3) Completed Form DS-0158
4) Completed Form DS-0157 (If you are Male between the ages of 16 and 45)
This process will take on average 7 to 10 days.
What are the actual INS Regulations:
These are the rules which were added on 12th of April 2002 by FR 11-02 in order to close the loopholes in flight training:
Requiring Change of Status From B to F-1 or M-1 Nonimmigrant Prior to Pursuing a Course of Study
The changes were made to:
8 CFR PART 214 -- NONIMMIGRANT CLASSES
and
8 CFR PART 248 -- CHANGE OF NONIMMIGRANT CLASSIFICATION
The Visa Waiver Program:
8 CFR PART 217 -- VISA WAIVER PROGRAM
Note the Visa Waiver Program does not allow any training of any kind in the U.S.A.
If anyone tells you to lie to the Immigration Officer when you enter the country (ie. say you are on holiday), that means they know the Laws and are knowingly telling you to Violate them. Be sure to check with the U.S. Embassy if you have any questions.
I hope this helps anyone wanting to fly in the U.S.A. enter the U.S.A. correctly.
Happy Flying,
Capt. Richard J. Gentil, Pres.
Naples Air Center, Inc.
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Additional USA Non-Immigrant Visa Application Process
Hello All,
The US Embassy in London has introduced an additional requirement for the application of Non-Immigrant Visas this month (January 2003).
They now require *all* applicants between the ages of sixteen and fifty nine to attend the Embassy with all required paperwork for a formal interview with regards to the application. Sixteen to Fifty Nine year olds are no longer able to apply for Non-Immigrant Visa's (inc M-1) by post.
URL: http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web.../interview.htm
I thought it would be wise to let you all know, even though those of you who will be applying for this type of visa will be checking the US Embassy website for the latest information.
This information is for UK people only, I am unable to comment on applications from other countries / citizens.
The US Embassy in London has introduced an additional requirement for the application of Non-Immigrant Visas this month (January 2003).
They now require *all* applicants between the ages of sixteen and fifty nine to attend the Embassy with all required paperwork for a formal interview with regards to the application. Sixteen to Fifty Nine year olds are no longer able to apply for Non-Immigrant Visa's (inc M-1) by post.
URL: http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web.../interview.htm
I thought it would be wise to let you all know, even though those of you who will be applying for this type of visa will be checking the US Embassy website for the latest information.
This information is for UK people only, I am unable to comment on applications from other countries / citizens.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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CZ,
Since you are obviously going through this process at the moment, can you give us an idea how long the whole thing takes, from start to end? Or is it too soon for you to have a good idea yet?
(I'm thinking of going to the US to do some training towards the end of this year. Haven't made a definite decision yet, but will obviously need to make that decision in plenty of time to get the paperwork sorted out!)
Thanks,
FFF
-----------
Since you are obviously going through this process at the moment, can you give us an idea how long the whole thing takes, from start to end? Or is it too soon for you to have a good idea yet?
(I'm thinking of going to the US to do some training towards the end of this year. Haven't made a definite decision yet, but will obviously need to make that decision in plenty of time to get the paperwork sorted out!)
Thanks,
FFF
-----------
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As far as I am aware the visa should be approved and issued within a couple fo days after the interview.
I was speaking to someone who had their interview yesterday and he said that his interview was quite a relaxed affair, about 10 minutes in total. The worst part was waiting around for an 1 and a half hours for his number to be called out. They also informed him that his application was successful and they would be sending out his visa yesterday evening. (I'm not sure if he has received it yet though). However I am not sure if this is normal as they do say on the embassy website that it will take a couple of days to process the application.
So in total the process has taken me 10 weeks, probably a total of 3 months by the time it has been issued. But I am sure you could get the process down to 4-5 weeks if you don't delay it like I did!!!
I was speaking to someone who had their interview yesterday and he said that his interview was quite a relaxed affair, about 10 minutes in total. The worst part was waiting around for an 1 and a half hours for his number to be called out. They also informed him that his application was successful and they would be sending out his visa yesterday evening. (I'm not sure if he has received it yet though). However I am not sure if this is normal as they do say on the embassy website that it will take a couple of days to process the application.
So in total the process has taken me 10 weeks, probably a total of 3 months by the time it has been issued. But I am sure you could get the process down to 4-5 weeks if you don't delay it like I did!!!
Last edited by Charlie Zulu; 17th Jan 2003 at 11:45.
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Yes, that timescale is about right. I applied to NAC at the beginning of December and received the I-20 about 10 days later. I thought I’d be really organized and get all the visa forms in advance, so I was just waiting on the I-20 – until I discovered my passport had gone AWOL. 
New passport issued 30th December, and 1st available interview at the embassy was the 14th of Jan. As CZ says, the only hassle with the appointment is the hanging around for nearly 2 hours, waiting to be seen. The interview itself was very brief, and they confirmed there and then I would get the visa – it duly turned up a couple of days later.
All fairly painless.
New passport issued 30th December, and 1st available interview at the embassy was the 14th of Jan. As CZ says, the only hassle with the appointment is the hanging around for nearly 2 hours, waiting to be seen. The interview itself was very brief, and they confirmed there and then I would get the visa – it duly turned up a couple of days later.
All fairly painless.
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G-SXTY,
When are you going to NAC and which courses are you going over for? I'm going on the 26th April for a month...
Just under a week to my interview, hopefully they'll give me a yes or no at my interview also.
FlyingForFun,
Good luck with the exams.
I'd be tempted to go and do my JAR CPL over in the USA as well, but I'm not sure if it'll be worth my while as with an FAA CPL/IR I'll have quite a lot of flying credit towards the JAA CPL/IR course. Just a shame I'll still be required to do the JAA ATPL exams. :-)
When are you going to NAC and which courses are you going over for? I'm going on the 26th April for a month...
Just under a week to my interview, hopefully they'll give me a yes or no at my interview also.
FlyingForFun,
Good luck with the exams.
I'd be tempted to go and do my JAR CPL over in the USA as well, but I'm not sure if it'll be worth my while as with an FAA CPL/IR I'll have quite a lot of flying credit towards the JAA CPL/IR course. Just a shame I'll still be required to do the JAA ATPL exams. :-)
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VISA
Other than the fact everyone here is going to NAC (and who can blame them - from expeirence - first class operation), I hope to go to the US and do a course in a smaller operation that doesn't have VISA approval. Does this close off all avenues?
I will be recording P1 throughout the course and already have a FAA flight-test issued ticket.
VT
I will be recording P1 throughout the course and already have a FAA flight-test issued ticket.
VT
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If the training you are going to be undertaking will lead towards a licence, be it an FAA or other such as JAA, then my belief is that you will most definately require a Visa.
In order to obtain, say an M-1 visa you will require a flight school who are approved to send out I20M forms, these forms are required to apply to the US Embassy for your visa, without one the US Embassy will not issue an M-1 visa.
IIRC a BFR doesn't count as training towards a licence as you already have the licence, you are just revalidating it.
In order to obtain, say an M-1 visa you will require a flight school who are approved to send out I20M forms, these forms are required to apply to the US Embassy for your visa, without one the US Embassy will not issue an M-1 visa.
IIRC a BFR doesn't count as training towards a licence as you already have the licence, you are just revalidating it.
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I already have an M-1 visa for flying in the US. My passport ran out last week and just wondering if anyone knows if the M-1 visa in my old passport is still valid when used with my new one. I got my new passport in through the post today. I thought I would ask here before ringing the US Embassy Visa line at £1.50per/min for advice.
Thanks
Thanks
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Hai M1 > J1
Hello.....
I have just spent a couple of hrs going through the posts, and have found the majority inspiring, and some made me a chuckle .
I am a wannabe, and am studying all aspects of training. I am 35 have a UK law degree, and am detirmed to commence training later this year.
Have looked at all the posts in respect of age, Canada, Austalia, and the US.
The majority of my questions have been answered, and some elements covered questions I should be asking. Ta
One area I would like some input on, is the option of US training with HAI.
Sounds like a good school with good options, however in one post it suggested that it's possible to get an M-1, train, then convert to J-1 toward the latter part of the course, which gives the maximum 24 Months to build hours under the ambit of a CFI(I),any input would be greatly recieved.
I have just spent a couple of hrs going through the posts, and have found the majority inspiring, and some made me a chuckle .
I am a wannabe, and am studying all aspects of training. I am 35 have a UK law degree, and am detirmed to commence training later this year.
Have looked at all the posts in respect of age, Canada, Austalia, and the US.
The majority of my questions have been answered, and some elements covered questions I should be asking. Ta
One area I would like some input on, is the option of US training with HAI.
Sounds like a good school with good options, however in one post it suggested that it's possible to get an M-1, train, then convert to J-1 toward the latter part of the course, which gives the maximum 24 Months to build hours under the ambit of a CFI(I),any input would be greatly recieved.
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Still hammering my through the posts and found this from ClearBlueWater.........
"HandyAndyUK, one thing is for certain there will never be an easy way to become a helo pilot. Given a fairly typical profile, when you're in your 20s you've got the time but you can't afford it. When you're in your 30s your wife (or other) and kids will demand some of your time, hamper mobility for that elusive first job and you still can't afford it without taking on enormous debt. In your 40s the kids need stability and moving to the bhundu for the first job is not a practical option, also you still can't afford it and you've got less time left to pay off the accumulated debt. In your 50s you're too old to get the first job (usually). In a nutshell it is not going to get any easier by waiting for tomorrow, if anything it just gets harder.
At the end of the day you'll never justify embarking on the venture from a reasoned position so it's not a decision for the head, it's a decision for the heart.
You don't regret what you've done only what you didn't do.
As ever you've got to be in to win."
Insipiration at its best.
"HandyAndyUK, one thing is for certain there will never be an easy way to become a helo pilot. Given a fairly typical profile, when you're in your 20s you've got the time but you can't afford it. When you're in your 30s your wife (or other) and kids will demand some of your time, hamper mobility for that elusive first job and you still can't afford it without taking on enormous debt. In your 40s the kids need stability and moving to the bhundu for the first job is not a practical option, also you still can't afford it and you've got less time left to pay off the accumulated debt. In your 50s you're too old to get the first job (usually). In a nutshell it is not going to get any easier by waiting for tomorrow, if anything it just gets harder.
At the end of the day you'll never justify embarking on the venture from a reasoned position so it's not a decision for the head, it's a decision for the heart.
You don't regret what you've done only what you didn't do.
As ever you've got to be in to win."
Insipiration at its best.
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I don't know the specifics but the J-1 is offered as I understand it on the basis of HAI's part 141 programme (FAA integrated professional training programme).
If you take the M-1 option to do part of the training, you then could only qualify for a J-1 if you started from scratch again, which of course would be totally pointless since you'd be covering a number of qualifications you already have.
It's a few months ago now, but I think there may have been some time restriction between VISA applications too (possibly several years).
Either way, it's a good idea to talk with the school direct since they'll have dealt with a few things. Also given the jumpiness in the US right now regarding foreigners, I would be careful not to put yourself on the wrong side of the INS. The US embassy website also has a fair bit of data.
Have fun.
r.
If you take the M-1 option to do part of the training, you then could only qualify for a J-1 if you started from scratch again, which of course would be totally pointless since you'd be covering a number of qualifications you already have.
It's a few months ago now, but I think there may have been some time restriction between VISA applications too (possibly several years).
Either way, it's a good idea to talk with the school direct since they'll have dealt with a few things. Also given the jumpiness in the US right now regarding foreigners, I would be careful not to put yourself on the wrong side of the INS. The US embassy website also has a fair bit of data.
Have fun.
r.
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Its good to see you are thinking of utilising visas the best way possible. I would advise getting an M1 visa to begin with for the majority of your training, get most of the JAA school work done and get your FAA private license done either before or during your JAA training. Then when you are ready to get your FAA commercial, go and get the J1 visa, as you cant get a J1 after you have your FAA commercial license, so they say! then you will only have a few months left of school, and you get your CFI and instrument and have at least 18 months visa working time, to get some good hour building.
Good luck with it all. Let me know if you need any help with info on the visas or the school.
Good luck with it all. Let me know if you need any help with info on the visas or the school.
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Thanks for your post.
I have not completley disregarded the USA, however I am now studying NZ & OZ.
From what I can fathom, the NZ licence is highly regarded in the industry, its just that I am in that age old place, with ancient questions such as which is the best route toward that first job, seek CFI first or operational expereience then CFI.
It's a tough place, and tough decision's to be made.
Dont want to end up on the rubbish heap, with 150hrs.
When I jump in I need it to be right.
Thanks for your offer of assistence, I have been looking at HAI in florida, and may indeed need to come back and pick your brains...
I have not completley disregarded the USA, however I am now studying NZ & OZ.
From what I can fathom, the NZ licence is highly regarded in the industry, its just that I am in that age old place, with ancient questions such as which is the best route toward that first job, seek CFI first or operational expereience then CFI.
It's a tough place, and tough decision's to be made.
Dont want to end up on the rubbish heap, with 150hrs.
When I jump in I need it to be right.
Thanks for your offer of assistence, I have been looking at HAI in florida, and may indeed need to come back and pick your brains...
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I am a current HAI student (very near the CFI checkride)
HAI is a great place to do the J1 thing. While the numbers dictate that not every graduate of HAI will end up working at HAI, so far I have seen every J1 student get a job somewhere in the US (if that was their goal).
Since HAI is also a JAA training facility, if someone on a J1 visa gets work there, they can then train toward their JAA license while they work as a CFI.
So while you can't count on getting hired by any school that trains you, if you put in a good effort and stand out as a student, pilot, and CFI candidate, there's no better place for opportunity than HAI.
(Can you tell I like the place?)
HAI is a great place to do the J1 thing. While the numbers dictate that not every graduate of HAI will end up working at HAI, so far I have seen every J1 student get a job somewhere in the US (if that was their goal).
Since HAI is also a JAA training facility, if someone on a J1 visa gets work there, they can then train toward their JAA license while they work as a CFI.
So while you can't count on getting hired by any school that trains you, if you put in a good effort and stand out as a student, pilot, and CFI candidate, there's no better place for opportunity than HAI.
(Can you tell I like the place?)
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The slick marketing department may have forgotten to tell you that they were all very experienced American instructors and it is the first movement of Instructors in nearly a year!
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Autosync.
With so many choices of schools, and routes into the industry, and with the with a glut of candidates for employment, the decision making process on schools is nothing short of a waking nightmare
However an indication of movement is better than none, and indeed the slick marketing have just called me and spent an hour on the phone from the USA to the UK where we thrashed out possible routes, and the upshot was that it would be better for me to do my PPL elsewhere, in respect of my particular circumstances and aspirations. (Kind Note to Samantha)
With so many choices of schools, and routes into the industry, and with the with a glut of candidates for employment, the decision making process on schools is nothing short of a waking nightmare
However an indication of movement is better than none, and indeed the slick marketing have just called me and spent an hour on the phone from the USA to the UK where we thrashed out possible routes, and the upshot was that it would be better for me to do my PPL elsewhere, in respect of my particular circumstances and aspirations. (Kind Note to Samantha)
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Hi autosynch,
You are perhaps a little pessemistic - we have two Americans and two J1 guys going to Tex-Air, we had another J1 guy go to Barbados (a very sweet ride) this December, we have another J1 guy going to Columbia (the operator) to fly co-bubba in Chinooks in March.
Between May 2002 - May 2003 we sent two to Temsco, one chose to move to and teach in New Jersey (couldn't tell you why), one went to fly an R-44 in Orlando. Four more went back to Europe with their JAA ratings. There may be one or two others, but that's all I can remember right now.
Anyway, like I said, there is never a guarantee of a job, nor is one implied - there are sometimes stretches of a month or two where there are no new CFIs hired, then (like last month) there may be four hired in as many weeks.
So that's my story, and I'm sticking to it!
You are perhaps a little pessemistic - we have two Americans and two J1 guys going to Tex-Air, we had another J1 guy go to Barbados (a very sweet ride) this December, we have another J1 guy going to Columbia (the operator) to fly co-bubba in Chinooks in March.
Between May 2002 - May 2003 we sent two to Temsco, one chose to move to and teach in New Jersey (couldn't tell you why), one went to fly an R-44 in Orlando. Four more went back to Europe with their JAA ratings. There may be one or two others, but that's all I can remember right now.
Anyway, like I said, there is never a guarantee of a job, nor is one implied - there are sometimes stretches of a month or two where there are no new CFIs hired, then (like last month) there may be four hired in as many weeks.
So that's my story, and I'm sticking to it!