Training & Flying in America: Visa information
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Organ Donor,
Yes, you are right. There are other options, but so far as the JAA licence is concerned training in Europe is cost prohibitive wherever I go, and language (outside the cockpit presumably) would be a difficulty for me in many places.
As far as I know, the only JAA approved helicopter school outside of the EU is HAI. I've visited four flying schools in the UK, and they all said that if I'm hoping to work in the UK afterwards, but I have to do it abroad re cost, then HAI should be my first choice. (One actually said only choice, but obviously there will be many exceptions to that rule already gainfully employed I'm sure.)
However, I'm always willing to review alternative options, but I felt that training to the JAA syllabus would simplify things greatly. Saving a few grand but making things harder might be a false economy. And I like the idea of the school environment. I know there'll be less exposure to the grizzled oldies, who's knowledge and experience is invaluable, but I believe there'll be great benefit to me of studying around a lot of other people. I'm not quite the spring chicken myself any more, and I think I'm going to need that culture and competition to help it all sink in!
One of the benefits that HAI offers over UK integrated schools is a pay-as-you-go policy. So, if I did find it difficult to get flight time, or the instruction was poor, I could leave after the PPL phase and go to South Africa, NZ or wherever to build hours. (CabAir for example make a point of stating that they'll aggressively pursue for the balance of funds if a student leaves mid-course for (almost) any reason.)
You state there are places where chances of work are better, but that's the information that is the most difficult to find because of course no-one is ever able to make promises (quite rightly.)
I know I'm breaking the "you must use Search for all of your knowledge, young Padawan" rule here, but if anyone really does know a better way, then please let me know. I believe I've examined all the options fairly, but am more than happy to be educated.
Si
Yes, you are right. There are other options, but so far as the JAA licence is concerned training in Europe is cost prohibitive wherever I go, and language (outside the cockpit presumably) would be a difficulty for me in many places.
As far as I know, the only JAA approved helicopter school outside of the EU is HAI. I've visited four flying schools in the UK, and they all said that if I'm hoping to work in the UK afterwards, but I have to do it abroad re cost, then HAI should be my first choice. (One actually said only choice, but obviously there will be many exceptions to that rule already gainfully employed I'm sure.)
However, I'm always willing to review alternative options, but I felt that training to the JAA syllabus would simplify things greatly. Saving a few grand but making things harder might be a false economy. And I like the idea of the school environment. I know there'll be less exposure to the grizzled oldies, who's knowledge and experience is invaluable, but I believe there'll be great benefit to me of studying around a lot of other people. I'm not quite the spring chicken myself any more, and I think I'm going to need that culture and competition to help it all sink in!
One of the benefits that HAI offers over UK integrated schools is a pay-as-you-go policy. So, if I did find it difficult to get flight time, or the instruction was poor, I could leave after the PPL phase and go to South Africa, NZ or wherever to build hours. (CabAir for example make a point of stating that they'll aggressively pursue for the balance of funds if a student leaves mid-course for (almost) any reason.)
You state there are places where chances of work are better, but that's the information that is the most difficult to find because of course no-one is ever able to make promises (quite rightly.)
I know I'm breaking the "you must use Search for all of your knowledge, young Padawan" rule here, but if anyone really does know a better way, then please let me know. I believe I've examined all the options fairly, but am more than happy to be educated.
Si
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Simon,
I think you are right in thinking that HAI is the only JAA approved training centre outside the EU, and if you want a JAR licence then these are your only options. It will be worth asking the CAA how to convert foreign licences to JAR, to see if the cost would be prohibitive.
Of course, the problem is once you have the JAR ticket you are still pretty unemployable due to lack of hours, unless you go down the instructing route, or have friends in convenient places.
I understand advertising is frowned upon here so don't want to receive the wrath of the moderators but there is a school in SA who will place their students in work once they have completed their licence. This gives them the opportunity to build some commercial experience so that they are in a better position to gain work when they return to their home countries. feel free to PM me if this is of any interest to you.
On another note, I would stay well away from schools who don't offer a pay as you go policy, but I can't see how they have a right to withold money if you decide to go elsewhere?
I think you are right in thinking that HAI is the only JAA approved training centre outside the EU, and if you want a JAR licence then these are your only options. It will be worth asking the CAA how to convert foreign licences to JAR, to see if the cost would be prohibitive.
Of course, the problem is once you have the JAR ticket you are still pretty unemployable due to lack of hours, unless you go down the instructing route, or have friends in convenient places.
I understand advertising is frowned upon here so don't want to receive the wrath of the moderators but there is a school in SA who will place their students in work once they have completed their licence. This gives them the opportunity to build some commercial experience so that they are in a better position to gain work when they return to their home countries. feel free to PM me if this is of any interest to you.
On another note, I would stay well away from schools who don't offer a pay as you go policy, but I can't see how they have a right to withold money if you decide to go elsewhere?
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organ donor,
PM sent, but I think I know where you meant.
For various reasons I had discounted it long ago, possibly for illeducated reasons at the time. I shall take another look and give it serious consideration.
Si
PM sent, but I think I know where you meant.
For various reasons I had discounted it long ago, possibly for illeducated reasons at the time. I shall take another look and give it serious consideration.
Si
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HAI is not the only option. There is one other school offering JAA Helicopter training and J1 visa. I don't know anything about their quality.
What I do know (I'm at HAI now), it's a great school. They have very well maintained helicopters and a quite a number of new Schweizers and still more to come. They are most likely the largest private helicopter school in the world.
The quality of training is very good. It's true that a lot of the instructors are low time, but trained to a very high standard by very, very, very experienced CFI instructors. The CFI training doesn't take 2 weeks like a lot of other schools but they train you far beyond the standard needed for the checkride.
That goes actually for all the training you do at HAI the focus on getting you ready for the operation not just a ticket.
The aircraft and instructor availabilty however is a big issue. You have to fight to get you're flights in. If you're not really on top it takes you a long time to get finished. But I think that always the case if you're not on top of things.
I do have to say I'd rather fly a bit less, in well maintained helicopters getting good instruction, as to flying around in old crappy stuff waiting for a 'real' engine failure.
By the way I did my PPL, CPL, CFI in 5.5 months so it can be done. I did not get hired however, but still think it is a good school.
There's not a lot of jobs out there at the moment, but getting your tickets doesn't automatically mean you get a job and it's just like any other education.
What I do know (I'm at HAI now), it's a great school. They have very well maintained helicopters and a quite a number of new Schweizers and still more to come. They are most likely the largest private helicopter school in the world.
The quality of training is very good. It's true that a lot of the instructors are low time, but trained to a very high standard by very, very, very experienced CFI instructors. The CFI training doesn't take 2 weeks like a lot of other schools but they train you far beyond the standard needed for the checkride.
That goes actually for all the training you do at HAI the focus on getting you ready for the operation not just a ticket.
The aircraft and instructor availabilty however is a big issue. You have to fight to get you're flights in. If you're not really on top it takes you a long time to get finished. But I think that always the case if you're not on top of things.
I do have to say I'd rather fly a bit less, in well maintained helicopters getting good instruction, as to flying around in old crappy stuff waiting for a 'real' engine failure.
By the way I did my PPL, CPL, CFI in 5.5 months so it can be done. I did not get hired however, but still think it is a good school.
There's not a lot of jobs out there at the moment, but getting your tickets doesn't automatically mean you get a job and it's just like any other education.
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Kind of missed all the discussion for the last few days being away. But as Chariman has had a go at what people are doing for training these days am I interested to hear how he did everything and am sure his experiences and knowledge would be great to share with the pprune community, especially for new students. As other people pointed out alright you kninda missed the point of this post, and would be interested to hear how you and SASloss would recommend getting their training if they shouldnt pay for it - "tossing your hard earned pounds away"
Rotorboy, HAI is still relatively cheaper for training than a lot of other schools in the US, and as we all know as the dollar is so **** right now make is a hell of a lot cheaper for foreign people. Personally I believe that getting your Private in the 300 is the best way to start, from there you can do your instrument and commercial in the R22. Finishing at 150 hours wil kinda get you nowhere these days. Even at 200, getting a Robinson instructing job is becoming harder and harder thanks to insurance these days. Something you failed to mention, that if you look at a lot of instructing jobs advertised with R22's the min time is 300 hours. At least if you finish with 100 horus 300C and 100 R22 with your SFAR then you have a chance at both aircraft and all the schools, not limiting yourself in any way. And personally I have not met too many people when being interviewed that asked me did you wash helicopters before your flight training to help them decide to hire you.
I have met people from schools all over the US and they all have their fair share of dropouts and people who dont succeed in a helicopter career after training. A bit random to be saying that it only happens at HAI. Naturally there might be more from HAI, but lets look at figures, they have the biggest flight school in the world. So of course you can say more people drop out from there or dont make a career out of it, if you have over 100 students and 10% dropout then thats 10 students. Whereas a school with 50 students and the same 10% dropout then thats only 5. Pretty simple. And also as we all know HAI is primarily a school with foreign students, again a major reason why people will not get a career out if it, as its harder to get a job when returing to Europe. Using visas to their best is not about beating the system, its about getting the most you can from it and people offering you their experiences and knowledge.
Someone is always going to make money in these schools. Thats why they are a business and thats what business' do. Make money! So its not about people strealing your money or you giving it away, its about the best way you spend it for yourself. And when new students ask questions about where to go and how to do things, they are trying to find out the best way to spend their money.
On a side note Chariman, generalising with statements like "your pommie brethen" and "you English" aint really appreciated. If you are from Australia you would be more of a pmmie than I would be. This is an international forum. Try to keep that in mind!!
Rotorboy, HAI is still relatively cheaper for training than a lot of other schools in the US, and as we all know as the dollar is so **** right now make is a hell of a lot cheaper for foreign people. Personally I believe that getting your Private in the 300 is the best way to start, from there you can do your instrument and commercial in the R22. Finishing at 150 hours wil kinda get you nowhere these days. Even at 200, getting a Robinson instructing job is becoming harder and harder thanks to insurance these days. Something you failed to mention, that if you look at a lot of instructing jobs advertised with R22's the min time is 300 hours. At least if you finish with 100 horus 300C and 100 R22 with your SFAR then you have a chance at both aircraft and all the schools, not limiting yourself in any way. And personally I have not met too many people when being interviewed that asked me did you wash helicopters before your flight training to help them decide to hire you.
I have met people from schools all over the US and they all have their fair share of dropouts and people who dont succeed in a helicopter career after training. A bit random to be saying that it only happens at HAI. Naturally there might be more from HAI, but lets look at figures, they have the biggest flight school in the world. So of course you can say more people drop out from there or dont make a career out of it, if you have over 100 students and 10% dropout then thats 10 students. Whereas a school with 50 students and the same 10% dropout then thats only 5. Pretty simple. And also as we all know HAI is primarily a school with foreign students, again a major reason why people will not get a career out if it, as its harder to get a job when returing to Europe. Using visas to their best is not about beating the system, its about getting the most you can from it and people offering you their experiences and knowledge.
Someone is always going to make money in these schools. Thats why they are a business and thats what business' do. Make money! So its not about people strealing your money or you giving it away, its about the best way you spend it for yourself. And when new students ask questions about where to go and how to do things, they are trying to find out the best way to spend their money.
On a side note Chariman, generalising with statements like "your pommie brethen" and "you English" aint really appreciated. If you are from Australia you would be more of a pmmie than I would be. This is an international forum. Try to keep that in mind!!
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Flying at PPL level in the States
I am actually stunned as I have just found out what I need to do to fly in the States now at PPL level. $68 to the FAA at Oklahoma and a two month wait to get checked out for security with them and with the CAA here - Then I walk into my nominated FAA office in the US to collect my license on receipt of their acceptance letter. ( Which you could do on the spot prior to 9.11 ) Then I have to nominate a flying training organisation in the States at $130 per organisation requested. You pay on acceptance by the school ! If you change your mind and go elsewhere, yep, another $130 please !! ( This does not apply if you already have a type rating on an aircraft and just want to do some solo flying. ) Also £16 to the CAA to support their 'mutual' agreement with the FAA. ( I have been told by some FBO's that the TSA is still letting alien students train on a visa waiver due to the current regulation uncertainties - at the discression of individual schools !! ) If you have a CPL, you will be issued with a PPL until you pass the FAA examinations and have undertaken the required training and examiner checkride.
Click here to sign up with the TSA ( $130 per selected FTO - not all schools have authority to issue Visas if required. )
Transport Safety Authority Sign Up
and here with the FAA at Oklahoma ( this requires a $68 AMEX cheque as a processing fee. )
FAA Oklahoma Sign Up
and here to locate the CAA SRG/1160 form ( the CAA require £16 with the form to process the FAA's request for info about you ! )
CAA 1160 form download
and here to learn about converting JAA to FAA....
Alien Pilots instructions
You now have to be WELL prepared....Good Luck !
Click here to sign up with the TSA ( $130 per selected FTO - not all schools have authority to issue Visas if required. )
Transport Safety Authority Sign Up
and here with the FAA at Oklahoma ( this requires a $68 AMEX cheque as a processing fee. )
FAA Oklahoma Sign Up
and here to locate the CAA SRG/1160 form ( the CAA require £16 with the form to process the FAA's request for info about you ! )
CAA 1160 form download
and here to learn about converting JAA to FAA....
Alien Pilots instructions
You now have to be WELL prepared....Good Luck !
Last edited by TheFlyingSquirrel; 18th Mar 2005 at 12:48.
Helicopter Pilots Get It Up Quicker
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THS... cheaper to sit the FAA exams and checkride in the UK first?
I know there used to be a place in (??)Norwich which did the FAA writtens and theres at least one FAA examiner in the UK I think.
Anyone know if this is possible?
PW
I know there used to be a place in (??)Norwich which did the FAA writtens and theres at least one FAA examiner in the UK I think.
Anyone know if this is possible?
PW
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It is true that things have tightened up since 9/11, but there is nothing much you can do about the FAA security fee, and if you go to a school on a J1 or M1 visa you cant change schools anyway as the sponsor will revoke your visa if you go to another school, so changing your mind to go to another school doesnt realy matter. And since I think there are only 3 schools in the States that currently offer the J1 or M1 this isnt really a problem.
As far as I am aware you can recieve training from an FAA instructor in a November reg aircraft anywhere and it counts towards training for FAA licenses, but I dont think you can do the written tests in the UK. According to the CATS testing website you can only do them in the US, Germany, Japan, South Korea and the United Arab Emirates. But you can get the FAA Testprerp books and study all you like so that you can do the tests straight away when you get to the States. And if you get an AOPA membership I think there is a 10% discount for each written test.
As far as I am aware you can recieve training from an FAA instructor in a November reg aircraft anywhere and it counts towards training for FAA licenses, but I dont think you can do the written tests in the UK. According to the CATS testing website you can only do them in the US, Germany, Japan, South Korea and the United Arab Emirates. But you can get the FAA Testprerp books and study all you like so that you can do the tests straight away when you get to the States. And if you get an AOPA membership I think there is a 10% discount for each written test.
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FAA confirmation
Just received confirmation from the FAA at Oklahoma that I can collect my FAA license from my nominated Flight Standards Office in the USA. It's taken the FAA and CAA two weeks to sort this out - Must admit, that's pretty impressive for two government agencies, so thanks to them.
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J-1 visa and Heliflight USA
Hi I'm planning on getting a J-1 visa to do my CPL and instuctors courses over in the States. Does anyone have any experience of Heliflight in Fort Lauderdale? Any idea how likely it is to get a job instructing after training? Also any idea what the pay is like - I've heard about $12 an hour. I'd appreciate any advice. Thanks.
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IntheTin, Lioncopter,
Could you post the gist of your PM's to ralfm here on the forum? I would be interested to hear your experiences and opinion of this school and the J1 Visa. Thanks,
Could you post the gist of your PM's to ralfm here on the forum? I would be interested to hear your experiences and opinion of this school and the J1 Visa. Thanks,
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Hey ralfm !! Im planning on doing the exact same thing.. 
I heard a rumor that Heliflight currently had some problems with issueing J-1 visa's.. Hope it's just a rumor !!
So anybody who have info about or experiance with Heliflight, please share or post it !!
I heard a rumor that Heliflight currently had some problems with issueing J-1 visa's.. Hope it's just a rumor !!
So anybody who have info about or experiance with Heliflight, please share or post it !!
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Thanks for you replies sounds like there is a problem with issuing the J-1 visa at the moment. Anyone know of other schools that can issue them? HAI is the only other one I've found and it hasn't had a very good write up elsewhere on this forum.
I did not want to reply on the Forum as I am an instructor at heliflight and felt it would seem like i was advertising.
At the moment Heliflight Can not issue J-1 Visa's. This is due to a change in ownership (which is actually for the better). Because there was a change in ownership but the relevent paperwork was not submitted to the government by the person responible for it (who is now no longer with the company) we can not issue the visa untill the paperwork is sorted out.
Before it might not have been such a big problem but now with how twitchy the US government is with Visa'a and flight school you can imagine the head ache.
The last information we (the instructors) were given was about a month ago when the person now dealing with it said 3 months, so that should mean in about 2 month we should be good to issue them.
Ryan McPherson
At the moment Heliflight Can not issue J-1 Visa's. This is due to a change in ownership (which is actually for the better). Because there was a change in ownership but the relevent paperwork was not submitted to the government by the person responible for it (who is now no longer with the company) we can not issue the visa untill the paperwork is sorted out.
Before it might not have been such a big problem but now with how twitchy the US government is with Visa'a and flight school you can imagine the head ache.
The last information we (the instructors) were given was about a month ago when the person now dealing with it said 3 months, so that should mean in about 2 month we should be good to issue them.
Ryan McPherson
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I was speaking to a guy who went to a fixed wing school that issued J-1 visas. He did his private fixed wing Part 141 and then went on to get his FAA rotorcraft ratings at the same school.
Granted that the school that he went to was a fixed wing school and only had two helicopters, but he believes that he still got good training with a smaller price tag (fixed wing time).
This may be an option that you might want to look at. I think Florida Aviation Career Training in St Augustine in Florida can issue J-1 visas. (Oh, He did not go to this school)
Hope this helps....
Granted that the school that he went to was a fixed wing school and only had two helicopters, but he believes that he still got good training with a smaller price tag (fixed wing time).
This may be an option that you might want to look at. I think Florida Aviation Career Training in St Augustine in Florida can issue J-1 visas. (Oh, He did not go to this school)
Hope this helps....
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hi,
talking about J 1 visas I have a few questions:
1)how long r they valid for 12 months ?
2)For the course of your training at the company then the remainder hopefully working at the company for what ever your time limit is.
I have a friend interested in ppl a in the states with a view to go airline faa .
anyone to help ?
talking about J 1 visas I have a few questions:
1)how long r they valid for 12 months ?
2)For the course of your training at the company then the remainder hopefully working at the company for what ever your time limit is.
I have a friend interested in ppl a in the states with a view to go airline faa .
anyone to help ?