Awright You Booze Hounds...Listen Up!
Thread Starter
Awright You Booze Hounds...Listen Up!
Pilots Guilty of Being Drunk in Cockpit
By Associated Press
June 8, 2005, 1:39 PM EDT
MIAMI -- Two former America West pilots were convicted Wednesday of being drunk in the cockpit after an all-night drinking binge.
They face up to five years in prison on the charge of operating an aircraft while drunk. Both men bowed their heads when the verdict was read after a two-week trial and jury deliberations over parts of two days.
Pilot Thomas Cloyd and co-pilot Christopher Hughes were arrested July 1, 2002, as their Phoenix-bound jet was being pushed back from its gate at Miami International Airport.
Police ordered the plane to turn back and arrested the pilots after security screeners smelled a strong odor of alcohol on Hughes, and Cloyd got in an argument over his attempts to bring aboard a cup of coffee.
The pilots had 14 beers between them at a bar the night before the flight, closing out their $122 tab at about 4:40 a.m. -- roughly six hours before their flight was to depart. Hours later, they registered blood-alcohol levels above Florida's 0.08 legal limit.
The pilots maintained they were not operating the aircraft because it was being pushed by a runway tug and its steering was disengaged at the time it was ordered back to the terminal. They were fired by America West after their arrests and lost their commercial pilot's licenses.
Copyright 2005 Newsday Inc.
By Associated Press
June 8, 2005, 1:39 PM EDT
MIAMI -- Two former America West pilots were convicted Wednesday of being drunk in the cockpit after an all-night drinking binge.
They face up to five years in prison on the charge of operating an aircraft while drunk. Both men bowed their heads when the verdict was read after a two-week trial and jury deliberations over parts of two days.
Pilot Thomas Cloyd and co-pilot Christopher Hughes were arrested July 1, 2002, as their Phoenix-bound jet was being pushed back from its gate at Miami International Airport.
Police ordered the plane to turn back and arrested the pilots after security screeners smelled a strong odor of alcohol on Hughes, and Cloyd got in an argument over his attempts to bring aboard a cup of coffee.
The pilots had 14 beers between them at a bar the night before the flight, closing out their $122 tab at about 4:40 a.m. -- roughly six hours before their flight was to depart. Hours later, they registered blood-alcohol levels above Florida's 0.08 legal limit.
The pilots maintained they were not operating the aircraft because it was being pushed by a runway tug and its steering was disengaged at the time it was ordered back to the terminal. They were fired by America West after their arrests and lost their commercial pilot's licenses.
Copyright 2005 Newsday Inc.
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Has happend before and it will happen again. What would be interesting would be to see the STATS (They don't exist) on those that have done the same thing but have not been caught-YET.
Great thing about Murphy is he loves to wait for these sorts of days to catch you out.
Imagine being , full of fuel, heavy, Hot day, High ELEV, Take off roll, lots of happy waving pax in the back, Eng Fire or Flame out just after rotation with a bunch of pi - - ed aviators in the front trying to IDENT-CONFIRM-SELECT with the sum total brain capacity of zero.
Its hard enough some days trying to do the job when you are full bottle.
I agree with ASCEND C, any one that pays $9 for a beer is already brain dead!!!!!
Great thing about Murphy is he loves to wait for these sorts of days to catch you out.
Imagine being , full of fuel, heavy, Hot day, High ELEV, Take off roll, lots of happy waving pax in the back, Eng Fire or Flame out just after rotation with a bunch of pi - - ed aviators in the front trying to IDENT-CONFIRM-SELECT with the sum total brain capacity of zero.
Its hard enough some days trying to do the job when you are full bottle.
I agree with ASCEND C, any one that pays $9 for a beer is already brain dead!!!!!
Iconoclast
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Flying while under the influence. It depends on where you are.
Several years ago two Northwest pilots who were known to be under the influence were allowed to depart on a trip to Detroit. The reasons for letting them continue the flight was that Minnesota did not have a law against flying while drunk. However the State of Michigan did. The pilots were allowed to fly in this condition endangering the passengers, the crew, and the aircraft and were arrested upon landing at Detroit.
So which is worse.
So which is worse.
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Saw part of the trial on TV. It was a vain effort as I understand the judge wouldnt accept a plea bargin. Im sure they are toast now.
All because the arrogrant dude argued about a cup of coffee......
Two careers shot(deservedly so)..........AND Pilots cant play pool worth a sh1t anyway..........
Judge is gonna put them in with the rest of economy class........
All because the arrogrant dude argued about a cup of coffee......
Two careers shot(deservedly so)..........AND Pilots cant play pool worth a sh1t anyway..........
Judge is gonna put them in with the rest of economy class........
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giveitsome
I'm not trying to defend their actions, and I bow to your expertise as a professional pilot. Just to put things in perspective:
Florida's legal breath alcohol limit for drivers is 0.08
Cloyd's reading was 0.091
Hughes was 0.084.
ie Both were only over the limit at which they could have legally driven by a minute fraction.
Isn't "a bunch of pi - - ed aviators in the front" overstating it just a bit?
I assume "sum total brain capacity of zero" refers to their stupidity in drinking heavily shortly before flying, not that they were in that state because of the alcohol they'd drunk.
I'm not trying to defend their actions, and I bow to your expertise as a professional pilot. Just to put things in perspective:
Florida's legal breath alcohol limit for drivers is 0.08
Cloyd's reading was 0.091
Hughes was 0.084.
ie Both were only over the limit at which they could have legally driven by a minute fraction.
Isn't "a bunch of pi - - ed aviators in the front" overstating it just a bit?
I assume "sum total brain capacity of zero" refers to their stupidity in drinking heavily shortly before flying, not that they were in that state because of the alcohol they'd drunk.
Thread Starter
FL.....
Might we ask the question : Have you ever flown the day after a long night of drinking and felt the after effects of that night? After effects commonly known as "The hangover from Hades"....compounded by lack of sleep and lack of adequate nourishment.
Is that not as bad as being legally intoxicated but not drunk as you rightly suggest?
I plead the fifth.....amendment....not the quantity!
Also FL....if by chance either one of them held a Commercial Drivers License......the tolerance drops by half purely because of the Commerical license vice non-commerical driving license.
Might we ask the question : Have you ever flown the day after a long night of drinking and felt the after effects of that night? After effects commonly known as "The hangover from Hades"....compounded by lack of sleep and lack of adequate nourishment.
Is that not as bad as being legally intoxicated but not drunk as you rightly suggest?
I plead the fifth.....amendment....not the quantity!
Also FL....if by chance either one of them held a Commercial Drivers License......the tolerance drops by half purely because of the Commerical license vice non-commerical driving license.
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Who are we kidding?... pilots are just what they are, truckers of the air and what do you expect from them, truckers do what they do.
Truckers do:
1. how the h+ll should I know I'm just a pilot!
Hey waitress!! I'll have another one!
I guess common sense isn't a very common sense?
Truckers do:
1. how the h+ll should I know I'm just a pilot!
Hey waitress!! I'll have another one!
I guess common sense isn't a very common sense?
Thread Starter
Heli,
I am both a pilot and a trucker....and a drinker. Doing less of all three lately.....but I do know that the one time that I did the drive a big truck with a hang-over thing....it was both pure misery and a very unwise thing to do.
I have also done the same thing in a helicopter....when I was both young and foolish....and upon reflection....being older and wiser than in those years....it was not a good deed then.
I do think there lurks a Red Indian Medicine Man in most pilots....there are times we have all done a Rain Dance praying for some really ugly weather to magically appear and ground us for the day. I still know the chant just in case I fall off the wagon.
I am both a pilot and a trucker....and a drinker. Doing less of all three lately.....but I do know that the one time that I did the drive a big truck with a hang-over thing....it was both pure misery and a very unwise thing to do.
I have also done the same thing in a helicopter....when I was both young and foolish....and upon reflection....being older and wiser than in those years....it was not a good deed then.
I do think there lurks a Red Indian Medicine Man in most pilots....there are times we have all done a Rain Dance praying for some really ugly weather to magically appear and ground us for the day. I still know the chant just in case I fall off the wagon.
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Flying Lawyer
"Florida's legal breath alcohol limit for drivers is 0.08
Cloyd's reading was 0.091 Hughes was 0.084."
FL can you be a little bit pregnant?? Whether they were compared against a standard that exists for driving vs flying doesn't really cut the mustard. 0.08 OR 100.8, no business being in cockpit with live meat on board. I am not aware of the legal standard to be applied in this case (however I know where to find it), the reasonable man would say-Flying and Drinking is not a good idea. And yes anybody who pays $9 for a beer is still an idiot!!!
Give It some
"Florida's legal breath alcohol limit for drivers is 0.08
Cloyd's reading was 0.091 Hughes was 0.084."
FL can you be a little bit pregnant?? Whether they were compared against a standard that exists for driving vs flying doesn't really cut the mustard. 0.08 OR 100.8, no business being in cockpit with live meat on board. I am not aware of the legal standard to be applied in this case (however I know where to find it), the reasonable man would say-Flying and Drinking is not a good idea. And yes anybody who pays $9 for a beer is still an idiot!!!
Give It some
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SAS,
Know what you mean.
Done the hangover in a truck thingy my self and wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Never did it flying though and I hope my bean doesn't let me so I won't have to bow my head in a court room somewhere.
This trucker-pilot resemblance thing is interesting...
Know what you mean.
Done the hangover in a truck thingy my self and wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Never did it flying though and I hope my bean doesn't let me so I won't have to bow my head in a court room somewhere.
This trucker-pilot resemblance thing is interesting...
Last edited by Heli-Ice; 9th Jun 2005 at 11:50.
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SASless
No, but I've done other things in that state and agree with your point.
I was simply putting these pilots' alcohol levels in context. ieBeing a minute amount over the legal driving limit doesn't mean someone is drunk.
The FAA alcohol limit for pilots also drops to half.
Coincidentally, I'm also a trucker. I've got a licence to drive articulated trucks, but haven't used it for a few years. I'm not tee-total, but I'm not a 'drinker' in the usual sense of the word.
giveitsome
No, you can't be "a little bit pregnant", and you can be a lttle bit drunk.
I referred to the driving limit simply to illustrate that a reading of 0.091 or 0.084 isn't 'drunk', nor even 'a lttle bit drunk' IMHO.
I agree they had no business being in cockpit with those alcohol levels, but I disagree that they can sensibly be described as "pi - - ed aviators."
I've no doubt the reasonable man would say 'Flying and Drinking is not a good idea.' I'd agree, and would put it rather stronger than that.
The Florida limit is different from the Federal limit.
The Federal limit is in FAR 91.17 Alcohol or Drugs.
"No person may act or attempt to act as a crewmember of a civil aircraft -
within eight hours after the consumption of any alcoholic beverage;
while under the influence of alcohol;
while using any drug that affects the person's faculties in any way contrary to safety;
while having 0.04 percent by weight or more alcohol in the blood."
Any one of those alternatives is sufficient to prove a violation.
eg If a pilot flies within eight hours after consuming alcohol, he commits an offence even if he's not under the influence of alcohol when he flies and even if his blood alcohol level is zero.
No, but I've done other things in that state and agree with your point.
I was simply putting these pilots' alcohol levels in context. ieBeing a minute amount over the legal driving limit doesn't mean someone is drunk.
The FAA alcohol limit for pilots also drops to half.
Coincidentally, I'm also a trucker. I've got a licence to drive articulated trucks, but haven't used it for a few years. I'm not tee-total, but I'm not a 'drinker' in the usual sense of the word.
giveitsome
No, you can't be "a little bit pregnant", and you can be a lttle bit drunk.
I referred to the driving limit simply to illustrate that a reading of 0.091 or 0.084 isn't 'drunk', nor even 'a lttle bit drunk' IMHO.
I agree they had no business being in cockpit with those alcohol levels, but I disagree that they can sensibly be described as "pi - - ed aviators."
I've no doubt the reasonable man would say 'Flying and Drinking is not a good idea.' I'd agree, and would put it rather stronger than that.
The Florida limit is different from the Federal limit.
The Federal limit is in FAR 91.17 Alcohol or Drugs.
"No person may act or attempt to act as a crewmember of a civil aircraft -
within eight hours after the consumption of any alcoholic beverage;
while under the influence of alcohol;
while using any drug that affects the person's faculties in any way contrary to safety;
while having 0.04 percent by weight or more alcohol in the blood."
Any one of those alternatives is sufficient to prove a violation.
eg If a pilot flies within eight hours after consuming alcohol, he commits an offence even if he's not under the influence of alcohol when he flies and even if his blood alcohol level is zero.
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Theshe pilots (hic!) were jusht a bit conf... conf ... confushed.
They thought the rule was "No smoking within 8 hours of flight, and no drinking within 100 feet of the aircraft."
They thought the rule was "No smoking within 8 hours of flight, and no drinking within 100 feet of the aircraft."
Thread Starter
FL,
Your point is well taken....and I think we would all agree that although under the influence...they were....they were probably not "drunk"...but one of them really wanted that cup of coffee. But then it could be he had a drug addiction for caffeine too.....or a resentment of authority as represented by the unfriendly TSA man.
There is more to this than just two intoxicated pilots....there was some kind of confrontation at the security check that set all this into motion.
Bottom line....be nice....eat peppermints....and breathe shallowly as you meekly walk by other folks.....and do not recognize your drinking buddies from the night before if they happen to be seated in the cabin of your airplane.....even if they wave at you.
Your point is well taken....and I think we would all agree that although under the influence...they were....they were probably not "drunk"...but one of them really wanted that cup of coffee. But then it could be he had a drug addiction for caffeine too.....or a resentment of authority as represented by the unfriendly TSA man.
There is more to this than just two intoxicated pilots....there was some kind of confrontation at the security check that set all this into motion.
Bottom line....be nice....eat peppermints....and breathe shallowly as you meekly walk by other folks.....and do not recognize your drinking buddies from the night before if they happen to be seated in the cabin of your airplane.....even if they wave at you.
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Good call KRO, however we all have to grow up at some point. One of the worst trips I remember was NVG Form, complicated sortie with complicated rejoin procedures. All of us had finished our session 24 hrs before the planned sortie however we were all under performers that night, simply because we were still tired and fatigued.
Like I said. Murphy will catch up with all of us if we let him.
Don't always have Supp O2 available at your finger tips. Better to get on it when you have some space in your roster.
Yes your right we have all been guilty at some point.
Like I said. Murphy will catch up with all of us if we let him.
Don't always have Supp O2 available at your finger tips. Better to get on it when you have some space in your roster.
Yes your right we have all been guilty at some point.
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I can't believe that there are numbnuts committing this kind of blunder. Why would anybody risk its career by going on a drinking binge the night before the flight? That is stupid irresponsible and in disregard of safety. We all make stupid mistakes but this is by far the stupidest I have heard from in a long time. Bravo..an immediate dismissal from the job and a prison sentence is quite an accomplishment. Their lives are screwed.
Not mouthwash; it contains alcohol!