High turnover of Pilots in ESSO (Bas Strait)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: adelaide
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
High turnover of Pilots in ESSO (Bass Strait)
There is another advertisement for pilots for the ESSO operation
in Bass Strait . These have been coming up regularly . Can
anybody advise the reason for the rapid turnover in what I had thought was a highly paid job ?
Helicopter Pilots
Offshore Bass Strait
Captains and Co pilots S-76
Current Australian ATPL (H)
Casa Medical Class 1
Min 3000 hrs Heli
1500 hrs ME Heli Command
CIR with 2 renewals
Offshore exp preferred
2 years accident free (human error causes)
Violation free
Interseted pilots approaching Captain are encouraged
Interviews and testing will occur in March
in Bass Strait . These have been coming up regularly . Can
anybody advise the reason for the rapid turnover in what I had thought was a highly paid job ?
Helicopter Pilots
Offshore Bass Strait
Captains and Co pilots S-76
Current Australian ATPL (H)
Casa Medical Class 1
Min 3000 hrs Heli
1500 hrs ME Heli Command
CIR with 2 renewals
Offshore exp preferred
2 years accident free (human error causes)
Violation free
Interseted pilots approaching Captain are encouraged
Interviews and testing will occur in March
Last edited by piggy_mcbeef; 6th Feb 2005 at 19:08.
Only guessing, but it might have something to do with
a) Esso contracting out Captains as well as co jos
b) Esso having a mandatory retirement at 55, and nearly all the esso guys rapidly approaching that dreaded age.
I wonder if they can then get their old jobs back, with HA?
a) Esso contracting out Captains as well as co jos
b) Esso having a mandatory retirement at 55, and nearly all the esso guys rapidly approaching that dreaded age.
I wonder if they can then get their old jobs back, with HA?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: adelaide
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Two years ago , the basic pay for a contract captain was $90000
per year .
A mandatory retiring age for direct employees of Esso or any other company is not legal in Australia and some of Esso`s pilots are past 60 , but presumably Esso can specify age limits to the company who supplies contract pilots .
per year .
A mandatory retiring age for direct employees of Esso or any other company is not legal in Australia and some of Esso`s pilots are past 60 , but presumably Esso can specify age limits to the company who supplies contract pilots .
Last edited by piggy_mcbeef; 5th Feb 2005 at 08:01.
ESSO Age
I believe the reason ESSO started using co-pilots years ago is because many of their crew were approaching 60 at which time they could not fly unless they had a co-pilot less than 60.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: OI OI OI
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surprising that no recently ex- pilots have commented on this. Its a great job but is still run in the same old way. Making highly qualified pilots fly icus for 6 to 12 months may have alot to do with it, also i know for a fact that very few of the contract pilots are happy with HA, and there remuneration. Still its a funny old mix until they finally go one way or the other (esso employees or contractors.) the job will still have its problems.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: South of the Equator
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
COTB - Indeed.!!!!
Also heard that HA were luring potential drivers with the offer of ICUS??
My knowledge of the existing CAR’s is that: unless you are an ATPL with a CIR, then mate you can’t undertake ICUS in an aircraft with more than 9 passengers. Bet that is not discussed at interview.
Also heard that the game is VFR only?
Esso [Exxon Mobil] are an experienced Offshore Operator, HA are not!!
[Believe me or not, I am not a critic of HA, just a strong view of not screwing the Flightcrew by greedy management].
My knowledge of the existing CAR’s is that: unless you are an ATPL with a CIR, then mate you can’t undertake ICUS in an aircraft with more than 9 passengers. Bet that is not discussed at interview.
Also heard that the game is VFR only?
Esso [Exxon Mobil] are an experienced Offshore Operator, HA are not!!
[Believe me or not, I am not a critic of HA, just a strong view of not screwing the Flightcrew by greedy management].
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: within walking distance of the pub
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seat swapping
Does anyone know from experience or rumour what time frame is required to progress from the left to right seat? Bare cojo and/or icus cojo. Im aware i will depend on experience, aptitude, supply and demand etc but a roughie time will do.
cheers
cheers
There isn't any transition to captain.
The co'ies are employed on contract through another company as co'ies, and the captains are employed directly by Esso (or whatever the current name is ExxonMolbil).
The contractor doesn't employ captains, and Esso doesn't employ co'ies.
The co'ies are employed on contract through another company as co'ies, and the captains are employed directly by Esso (or whatever the current name is ExxonMolbil).
The contractor doesn't employ captains, and Esso doesn't employ co'ies.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Out Back
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the past there has been no chance of movement to the right hand seat, last year they introduced a co-pilot upgrade program. Which has already seen one captain produced on the system.
Due to the upgrade system the requirements for co-pilots has also been lifted ( no more 200 hr co-pilots ).
Depending on where you fit in into the systems depends on how long it will take. It may take a few months to 4-5 years.
All new captains and co-pilots are employed by the same contract company.
Due to the upgrade system the requirements for co-pilots has also been lifted ( no more 200 hr co-pilots ).
Depending on where you fit in into the systems depends on how long it will take. It may take a few months to 4-5 years.
All new captains and co-pilots are employed by the same contract company.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oz
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe it is time to set the record straight here.
Interesting reading guys’, it’s a shame to let the truth get in the way of a good story.
John Eacott,
a. Yes
b. No. Esso still has several of the old school Captains with at least one over 55.
piggy_mcbeef,
“Two years ago, the basic pay for a contract captain was $90000
per year.” This has risen by approx 8% with a variety of improved benefits and future negotiated increases as part of an EBA.
CockpitJunkie,
Wrong. Esso started using Co-pilots in 1990, long before any of the old school Captains were approaching 55.
QAZWSX,
ExxonMobil (USA) dictates that Captains have 1500 hours ME command and 3000 hours helicopter. The amount of co-pilot/ICUS required varies with the individual in order to achieve this goal.
Chairmanofthebored,
Going home every night appeals to a lot of people. Show me a job that doesn’t get tedious and/or boring.
High Nr,
All pilots employed are done so with the aim of progression through to a Captain position. There is a competency based upgrade program in place that is fully explained at the interview. Interviews are conducted by HA Manager, HA Chief Pilot and Esso Chief Pilot.
Captains are required to be ME Command Instrument Rated and Co-pilots are required to have a Co-pilot Instrument Rating. Currently several Co-pilots have a Command ME IR.
Day operation is normally VFR only and night operation is IFR.
Esso (ExxonMobil) are the operator. HA are not.
Evod,
Upgrade to Captain is when an individual meets the requirements. There is no max number of Captains. Time is about 4 years for an individual with minimum experience and down to 2-3 months for someone with a S76 endorsement. All training is done by Esso.
CockpitJunkie,
Wrong. Helicopters Australia employs all new Captains and Co-pilots.
sammy76,
Minimum requirement for Co-pilots is 700 hrs Helicopter including 500 hours turbine command and a NVFR rating.
lills,
In addition there are several other Co-pilots flying ICUS at the moment.
Interesting reading guys’, it’s a shame to let the truth get in the way of a good story.
John Eacott,
a. Yes
b. No. Esso still has several of the old school Captains with at least one over 55.
piggy_mcbeef,
“Two years ago, the basic pay for a contract captain was $90000
per year.” This has risen by approx 8% with a variety of improved benefits and future negotiated increases as part of an EBA.
CockpitJunkie,
Wrong. Esso started using Co-pilots in 1990, long before any of the old school Captains were approaching 55.
QAZWSX,
ExxonMobil (USA) dictates that Captains have 1500 hours ME command and 3000 hours helicopter. The amount of co-pilot/ICUS required varies with the individual in order to achieve this goal.
Chairmanofthebored,
Going home every night appeals to a lot of people. Show me a job that doesn’t get tedious and/or boring.
High Nr,
All pilots employed are done so with the aim of progression through to a Captain position. There is a competency based upgrade program in place that is fully explained at the interview. Interviews are conducted by HA Manager, HA Chief Pilot and Esso Chief Pilot.
Captains are required to be ME Command Instrument Rated and Co-pilots are required to have a Co-pilot Instrument Rating. Currently several Co-pilots have a Command ME IR.
Day operation is normally VFR only and night operation is IFR.
Esso (ExxonMobil) are the operator. HA are not.
Evod,
Upgrade to Captain is when an individual meets the requirements. There is no max number of Captains. Time is about 4 years for an individual with minimum experience and down to 2-3 months for someone with a S76 endorsement. All training is done by Esso.
CockpitJunkie,
Wrong. Helicopters Australia employs all new Captains and Co-pilots.
sammy76,
Minimum requirement for Co-pilots is 700 hrs Helicopter including 500 hours turbine command and a NVFR rating.
lills,
In addition there are several other Co-pilots flying ICUS at the moment.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The Twilight Zone
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Esso Turnover
Ok Slowlane
You seem to know what the go is, so why the high turnover of pilots
What happened to the once great job
6 gone in the last 6 months, with more to follow soon we hear
Please tell
You seem to know what the go is, so why the high turnover of pilots
What happened to the once great job
6 gone in the last 6 months, with more to follow soon we hear
Please tell
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Aberdeen
Age: 50
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Esso hopefulls should note that as a career path, this job
may be appealing initially. Bristow and CHC have employed
ex Esso pilots with many offshore hours to their names.
The experience they brought from Esso has no real relevance
in these companys cultures. A new pilot to the offshore
industry is better off with a company that can offer different
bases, aircraft types and the opportunity to work on overseas
operations. Many guys have wasted years at Longford, left
and found that it was start all over again at a multinational
company..................
may be appealing initially. Bristow and CHC have employed
ex Esso pilots with many offshore hours to their names.
The experience they brought from Esso has no real relevance
in these companys cultures. A new pilot to the offshore
industry is better off with a company that can offer different
bases, aircraft types and the opportunity to work on overseas
operations. Many guys have wasted years at Longford, left
and found that it was start all over again at a multinational
company..................
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
High Nr said: My knowledge of the existing CAR’s is that: unless you are an ATPL with a CIR, then mate you can’t undertake ICUS in an aircraft with more than 9 passengers.
I suspect there is no single reference, but it is implied within different sections. E.g. CAR 5.40 states:
5.40 Pilot acting in command under supervision
(1) A person may fly an aircraft as pilot acting in command under
supervision only if:
(a) the person holds:
(i) a commercial pilot licence or an air transport pilot licence;
or
(i) a certificate of validation that has effect as if it were a
commercial pilot licence or an air transport pilot licence;
and
(b) the person holds an aircraft endorsement that authorises him or
her to fly the aircraft as pilot in command; and
(c) if the person proposes to carry out an activity for which a flight
crew rating is required—the person holds a flight crew rating, or
grade of flight crew rating, that permits him or her to carry out
that activity as pilot in command of the aircraft concerned; and
(d) the person is the co-pilot of the aircraft; and
(e) the operator of the aircraft permits the person to fly the aircraft as pilot acting in command under supervision; and
(f) the pilot in command of the aircraft is appointed for the purpose by the operator of the aircraft.
So you will probably find that if you look elsewhere you will find that if the a/c is being operated with more than 9 passengers on a scheduled service it requires two pilots and that the PIC must be an ATPL, therefore if you do not possess one you would not meet requirement (c) above, for instance. Probably the same with the CIR.
But, the above is just a result of a quick look round the CASA site and not meant to be a definite answer.
5.40 Pilot acting in command under supervision
(1) A person may fly an aircraft as pilot acting in command under
supervision only if:
(a) the person holds:
(i) a commercial pilot licence or an air transport pilot licence;
or
(i) a certificate of validation that has effect as if it were a
commercial pilot licence or an air transport pilot licence;
and
(b) the person holds an aircraft endorsement that authorises him or
her to fly the aircraft as pilot in command; and
(c) if the person proposes to carry out an activity for which a flight
crew rating is required—the person holds a flight crew rating, or
grade of flight crew rating, that permits him or her to carry out
that activity as pilot in command of the aircraft concerned; and
(d) the person is the co-pilot of the aircraft; and
(e) the operator of the aircraft permits the person to fly the aircraft as pilot acting in command under supervision; and
(f) the pilot in command of the aircraft is appointed for the purpose by the operator of the aircraft.
So you will probably find that if you look elsewhere you will find that if the a/c is being operated with more than 9 passengers on a scheduled service it requires two pilots and that the PIC must be an ATPL, therefore if you do not possess one you would not meet requirement (c) above, for instance. Probably the same with the CIR.
But, the above is just a result of a quick look round the CASA site and not meant to be a definite answer.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: South of the Equator
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry Straitman.
I was not monitoring this thread, so I didn't see your posting.
Thanks 212 Man, that is one part of it.
To throw more confusion into the equation one must read backwards to the conclusion??
CAR 5.121 (1) (b) and (c). Basically this states: A CHPL is not permitted to be PIC in a Multi Pilot Helicopter in Charter and RPT.
But can be the Co-Pilot.
[I appreciate that ESSO claims to be a private operation] [A Collins Street Lawyer will be best to say if HA Pilots are employee's of Mobil Exxon, if they are employed and paid by a third party, eg HA, then this Flight when the HA pilot is the Flying Pilot or ICUS, may well be Charter, hence Car 5.121(1) (b) applies, hence ICUS is not possible with a CHPL].
Offshore Helicopters are Multi-Pilot aircraft, by requirement, and some by certification.
As 212 Man said, the same can be said for the CIR. The Captain or ICUS Pilot must hold a CIR if the aircraft is planned under the IFR. CAR 5.40 (c).
I will research the maximum passenger aspects when I have had some sleep. However this requirement basically superseded the old CHPL / ATPL MTOW limit of 5700Kg.
Thanks 212 Man, that is one part of it.
To throw more confusion into the equation one must read backwards to the conclusion??
CAR 5.121 (1) (b) and (c). Basically this states: A CHPL is not permitted to be PIC in a Multi Pilot Helicopter in Charter and RPT.
But can be the Co-Pilot.
[I appreciate that ESSO claims to be a private operation] [A Collins Street Lawyer will be best to say if HA Pilots are employee's of Mobil Exxon, if they are employed and paid by a third party, eg HA, then this Flight when the HA pilot is the Flying Pilot or ICUS, may well be Charter, hence Car 5.121(1) (b) applies, hence ICUS is not possible with a CHPL].
Offshore Helicopters are Multi-Pilot aircraft, by requirement, and some by certification.
As 212 Man said, the same can be said for the CIR. The Captain or ICUS Pilot must hold a CIR if the aircraft is planned under the IFR. CAR 5.40 (c).
I will research the maximum passenger aspects when I have had some sleep. However this requirement basically superseded the old CHPL / ATPL MTOW limit of 5700Kg.
