US Presidential Helicopter Bid (and Result)
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only 37-50 percent availability for Canadian 101s?
Study Recommends Changes To Keep Canadian EH101s Flying
Aerospace Daily & Defense Report
11/10/2008 , page 13
Graham Warwick
The availability of Canada’s CH-149 Cormorant search-and-rescue helicopters is less than 50 percent, and minimum operational requirements can only be met by buying more aircraft or reducing maintenance inspections, says an official report.
Canada purchased 15 of the AgustaWestland EH101 helicopters in 1998 on the assumption of 75 percent availability, but a study by Defence Research and Development Canada (DRDC) found actual figures vary from 37 to 50 percent.
Lower than expected availability and the loss of an aircraft in 2006 has restricted the Canadian Forces to flying Cormorants from only three of the four planned main operating bases (MOBs) and to use smaller Bell CH-146 Griffons at the fourth.
As recently as late October, all four Cormorants at the Gander MOB were out of service at the same time: one with a maintenance issue, one with damaged blades after a training incident and two in scheduled maintenance.
Canada’s Department of National Defense says it is still evaluating the report, which was completed in June. Just released publicly, the report warns the 14 helicopters may not be able to operate indefinitely without changes to inspections.
DRDC studied whether the Cormorant’s low availability could be overcome by improving logistic support, but even with ideal access to spares 25 aircraft would be needed at four MOBs, or 19 at three, to meet the availability requirements, it concluded.
If the duration of major, minor and out-of-sequence maintenance inspections could be trimmed by 25 percent, the study found, the number of aircraft required would be reduced to 20 for four MOBs, or 15 for three.
“It should not be expected that the current fleet of 14 aircraft can operate indefinitely from four, or even three, MOBs without significant changes to the fleet’s maintenance program,” the report concludes.
Aerospace Daily & Defense Report
11/10/2008 , page 13
Graham Warwick
The availability of Canada’s CH-149 Cormorant search-and-rescue helicopters is less than 50 percent, and minimum operational requirements can only be met by buying more aircraft or reducing maintenance inspections, says an official report.
Canada purchased 15 of the AgustaWestland EH101 helicopters in 1998 on the assumption of 75 percent availability, but a study by Defence Research and Development Canada (DRDC) found actual figures vary from 37 to 50 percent.
Lower than expected availability and the loss of an aircraft in 2006 has restricted the Canadian Forces to flying Cormorants from only three of the four planned main operating bases (MOBs) and to use smaller Bell CH-146 Griffons at the fourth.
As recently as late October, all four Cormorants at the Gander MOB were out of service at the same time: one with a maintenance issue, one with damaged blades after a training incident and two in scheduled maintenance.
Canada’s Department of National Defense says it is still evaluating the report, which was completed in June. Just released publicly, the report warns the 14 helicopters may not be able to operate indefinitely without changes to inspections.
DRDC studied whether the Cormorant’s low availability could be overcome by improving logistic support, but even with ideal access to spares 25 aircraft would be needed at four MOBs, or 19 at three, to meet the availability requirements, it concluded.
If the duration of major, minor and out-of-sequence maintenance inspections could be trimmed by 25 percent, the study found, the number of aircraft required would be reduced to 20 for four MOBs, or 15 for three.
“It should not be expected that the current fleet of 14 aircraft can operate indefinitely from four, or even three, MOBs without significant changes to the fleet’s maintenance program,” the report concludes.
Recently spent some time with a couple of guys who are close to the program.
They scoff at the situation and made comments about why the costs were so high....lots of Cherry wood paneling, desks, and furnishings in the dedicated hangar facility. Also noted the brand new Pax River Control Tower came from the program budget.
It is a political deal pure and simple and the usual games of spending money by the Federal Bureaucracy remain in vogue.
They scoff at the situation and made comments about why the costs were so high....lots of Cherry wood paneling, desks, and furnishings in the dedicated hangar facility. Also noted the brand new Pax River Control Tower came from the program budget.
It is a political deal pure and simple and the usual games of spending money by the Federal Bureaucracy remain in vogue.
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SASless -
What was their opinion of the fate of the program? Live or die?
Surprising that such an expensive boondoggle, with such limited US content (esp. If the aircraft are shipped direct from Yeovil, as has been suggested) didn't attract more attention during the election, especially with the prospect of a prolonged recession and DoD funding cuts.
I/C
What was their opinion of the fate of the program? Live or die?
Surprising that such an expensive boondoggle, with such limited US content (esp. If the aircraft are shipped direct from Yeovil, as has been suggested) didn't attract more attention during the election, especially with the prospect of a prolonged recession and DoD funding cuts.
I/C
Oh dear...the same old rubbish .
First the piece on the CANADIAN flet......the government didn't buy or make provision for the right level of spares ,nor the engineers needed to maintain the aircraft plus the aircraft are being worked very hard,as one would expect in the climate they are operating in.It is not the fault of the design but poor budgeting and staffing.
Second ...the Presidential buy ...Since when did green aircraft become the main profit base.The real money is in the powerplants ,equipment ,especially the avionics ,and the fitting out ,all of which is being done by the US of A in the US of A.
It might hurt the old US pride my former colonial friends but why not accept the VH-71 is as much of an international aircraft as the S-92..and at least parts don't come from China!!
First the piece on the CANADIAN flet......the government didn't buy or make provision for the right level of spares ,nor the engineers needed to maintain the aircraft plus the aircraft are being worked very hard,as one would expect in the climate they are operating in.It is not the fault of the design but poor budgeting and staffing.
Second ...the Presidential buy ...Since when did green aircraft become the main profit base.The real money is in the powerplants ,equipment ,especially the avionics ,and the fitting out ,all of which is being done by the US of A in the US of A.
It might hurt the old US pride my former colonial friends but why not accept the VH-71 is as much of an international aircraft as the S-92..and at least parts don't come from China!!
Right level of spares!
Funny that both the Danes and the Portuguese are experiencing the same level of poor operational availability, but no doubt they screwed up too.
During the tender the Canadians would have received guidance on the amount of spares and engineering support required to support the fleet during a required level of OPS.
A cynic might suggest that the level of support required did not tally with the in-service experience of others in order to make the platform look more attractive during the bid process, but as you and I both know this would not have been the case in this situation.
Regarding the program, I wouldn’t bet good money that the President Elect won’t share the nations suffering and cancel tranche II in order to save a considerable amount of taxpayers’ money, but time will tell.
Funny that both the Danes and the Portuguese are experiencing the same level of poor operational availability, but no doubt they screwed up too.
During the tender the Canadians would have received guidance on the amount of spares and engineering support required to support the fleet during a required level of OPS.
A cynic might suggest that the level of support required did not tally with the in-service experience of others in order to make the platform look more attractive during the bid process, but as you and I both know this would not have been the case in this situation.
Regarding the program, I wouldn’t bet good money that the President Elect won’t share the nations suffering and cancel tranche II in order to save a considerable amount of taxpayers’ money, but time will tell.
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First the piece on the CANADIAN flet......the government didn't buy or make provision for the right level of spares ,nor the engineers needed to maintain the aircraft plus the aircraft are being worked very hard,as one would expect in the climate they are operating in.It is not the fault of the design but poor budgeting and staffing
Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA) has called for a 25 percent cut in the US DOD budget and President Elect Obama has stated intentions to freeze/cancel most (or all) of the DOD's weapon systems contracting and research.
One could reasonably assume this particular purchase would gain some very close scrutiny during the upcoming Obama administration.
That being said.....cutting one's new ride might be more than a certain ego could resist.
However, from the way the media reports on the man.......Obama will provide his on organic wings thus negating the need for a helicopter in the first place.
All bets are on the program being cancelled and re-bid thus allowing yet another chance for the lobbyists to line some new pockets. That would be a form of change.....new hands stuck out for padding.
One could reasonably assume this particular purchase would gain some very close scrutiny during the upcoming Obama administration.
That being said.....cutting one's new ride might be more than a certain ego could resist.
However, from the way the media reports on the man.......Obama will provide his on organic wings thus negating the need for a helicopter in the first place.
All bets are on the program being cancelled and re-bid thus allowing yet another chance for the lobbyists to line some new pockets. That would be a form of change.....new hands stuck out for padding.
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From Aviation International News today. Life in the old dog yet? Perhaps? Maybe?
VH-71 Helicopter for the President Not Dead Yet
Alhough the Senate defense appropriations subcommittee yesterday did not add funding in the Senate defense appropriations bill to extend the VH-71 presidential helicopter program, the House of Representatives in July approved $400 million in its companion bill (H.R. 3326) to continue work on the program, with the objective of making the five “pilot production” VH-71As into operational helicopters for the President. The Senate bill still needs approval of the full Senate and then the two versions of the bill will be reconciled in conference committee before going to the President. If funding to continue the program is included in the final version of the bill, Congress would be openly challenging President Barack Obama, who has said publicly he would veto any defense bill that includes funding for the new Marine One helicopter. But wording about the VH-71 in a July 30 White House statement leaves open the possibility that the President could decide not to veto such a bill. The U.S. Navy awarded the VH-71 contract in 2005 to the team lead by Lockheed Martin System Integration, which based its bid on the AgustaWestland AW101. The DOD terminated work on the program, which has been plagued by delays and cost overruns, on May 15.
VH-71 Helicopter for the President Not Dead Yet
Alhough the Senate defense appropriations subcommittee yesterday did not add funding in the Senate defense appropriations bill to extend the VH-71 presidential helicopter program, the House of Representatives in July approved $400 million in its companion bill (H.R. 3326) to continue work on the program, with the objective of making the five “pilot production” VH-71As into operational helicopters for the President. The Senate bill still needs approval of the full Senate and then the two versions of the bill will be reconciled in conference committee before going to the President. If funding to continue the program is included in the final version of the bill, Congress would be openly challenging President Barack Obama, who has said publicly he would veto any defense bill that includes funding for the new Marine One helicopter. But wording about the VH-71 in a July 30 White House statement leaves open the possibility that the President could decide not to veto such a bill. The U.S. Navy awarded the VH-71 contract in 2005 to the team lead by Lockheed Martin System Integration, which based its bid on the AgustaWestland AW101. The DOD terminated work on the program, which has been plagued by delays and cost overruns, on May 15.
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The Final Blow ?
Cancelled White House chopper 'useless': Pentagon
WASHINGTON : New White House helicopters will cost less than a cancelled 13-billion-dollar program that proved too expensive and ‘useless’, the Pentagon said on Friday.
Lawmakers this week scrapped a long-running project to build the VH-71 presidential helicopter, backing a request from President Barack Obama who had ridiculed the program as extravagant.
But a Republican member of the House of Representatives, Maurice Hinchey, charged on Wednesday that Pentagon documents showed plans for a new helicopter would carry an even higher 20-billion-dollar price tag than the cancelled Lockheed Martin program.
Hinchey said the original project could be completed at less cost than starting from scratch.
"It could not be any clearer that continuing the development of the VH-71 program is in the best interests of taxpayers' wallets and the safety and security of the president," Hinchey said in a statement.
Defence Department press secretary Geoff Morrell rejected Hinchey's figures, saying he VH-71 program was "useless to us" and was not close to completion.
"All I can tell you is the new helicopter program is being structured to cost less than the VH-71," Morrell told reporters.
The US Navy contracted Lockheed Martin to build a new fleet of 28 helicopters to serve as "Marine One" in 2005. The project originally was meant to cost around six billion dollars but the price skyrocketed up to about 13 billion dollars, according to Morrell.
Each aircraft would now cost about 400 million dollars -- more than the cost of the two adapted Boeing 747 aircraft now serving as Air Force One.
Having sunk more than three billion dollars into the VH-71 program, the government had only a few "empty aircraft" and would have to start over, he said.
"The bottom line is no matter what we spend on this, we're not going to get what we need. There is not a program to salvage," he said.
While officials have only just begun preliminary discussions on a new helicopter program, the next attempt will avoid elaborate technical requirements and be based on existing aircraft, he said.
"The requirements for the VH-71 were out of control," he said.
Both Obama and Defence Secretary Robert Gates held up the VH-71 program as a symbol of wasteful, slow-moving defence programs, and decried plans for an Armageddon-proof kitchen on board the aircraft.
"It would let me cook a meal while under nuclear attack," Obama said in August.
"Now, let me tell you something: If the United States of America is under nuclear attack, the last thing on my mind will be whipping up a snack."
The cancelled helicopter was to be based on Lockheed's EH-101 aircraft, currently produced by a British-Italian partner.
The new generation of iconic green-and-white helicopters were supposed to offer the president greater protection and a higher range than current Sikorsky models -- some of which are up to 40 years old.
The decision in 2005 to award the contract culminated an intense competition between Lockheed Martin and Sikorsky Aircraft Corp's all-American entry, the S-92.
WASHINGTON : New White House helicopters will cost less than a cancelled 13-billion-dollar program that proved too expensive and ‘useless’, the Pentagon said on Friday.
Lawmakers this week scrapped a long-running project to build the VH-71 presidential helicopter, backing a request from President Barack Obama who had ridiculed the program as extravagant.
But a Republican member of the House of Representatives, Maurice Hinchey, charged on Wednesday that Pentagon documents showed plans for a new helicopter would carry an even higher 20-billion-dollar price tag than the cancelled Lockheed Martin program.
Hinchey said the original project could be completed at less cost than starting from scratch.
"It could not be any clearer that continuing the development of the VH-71 program is in the best interests of taxpayers' wallets and the safety and security of the president," Hinchey said in a statement.
Defence Department press secretary Geoff Morrell rejected Hinchey's figures, saying he VH-71 program was "useless to us" and was not close to completion.
"All I can tell you is the new helicopter program is being structured to cost less than the VH-71," Morrell told reporters.
The US Navy contracted Lockheed Martin to build a new fleet of 28 helicopters to serve as "Marine One" in 2005. The project originally was meant to cost around six billion dollars but the price skyrocketed up to about 13 billion dollars, according to Morrell.
Each aircraft would now cost about 400 million dollars -- more than the cost of the two adapted Boeing 747 aircraft now serving as Air Force One.
Having sunk more than three billion dollars into the VH-71 program, the government had only a few "empty aircraft" and would have to start over, he said.
"The bottom line is no matter what we spend on this, we're not going to get what we need. There is not a program to salvage," he said.
While officials have only just begun preliminary discussions on a new helicopter program, the next attempt will avoid elaborate technical requirements and be based on existing aircraft, he said.
"The requirements for the VH-71 were out of control," he said.
Both Obama and Defence Secretary Robert Gates held up the VH-71 program as a symbol of wasteful, slow-moving defence programs, and decried plans for an Armageddon-proof kitchen on board the aircraft.
"It would let me cook a meal while under nuclear attack," Obama said in August.
"Now, let me tell you something: If the United States of America is under nuclear attack, the last thing on my mind will be whipping up a snack."
The cancelled helicopter was to be based on Lockheed's EH-101 aircraft, currently produced by a British-Italian partner.
The new generation of iconic green-and-white helicopters were supposed to offer the president greater protection and a higher range than current Sikorsky models -- some of which are up to 40 years old.
The decision in 2005 to award the contract culminated an intense competition between Lockheed Martin and Sikorsky Aircraft Corp's all-American entry, the S-92.
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VH-71 Presidential Helicopter Loses Critical Support: AINonline
By: R. Randall Padfield
November 5, 2009
Not unlike the way the Philadelphia Phillies’ chances of winning this year’s World Series decreased substantially on Sunday when they lost game four to the New York Yankees, the Lockheed Martin/AgustaWestland VH-71 presidential helicopter’s chances of receiving funding in this year’s defense appropriations bill diminished considerably yesterday when Congressman John Murtha (D-Pa.) apparently removed his support of the program. Murtha’s viewpoint counts because he is chairman of the House of Representatives Appropriations Committee and the House and Senate are in the final stages of ironing out the differences between their two versions of the defense appropriations bill. The House’s version contains $400 million to continue development of the VH-71 Increment 1 program, and with an additional $4 billion or so, put five VH-71s in the President’s helicopter fleet in the next few years. The Senate’s version does not.
President Obama has said he’s happy with the Sikorsky VH-3D helicopters the fleet has now. Official statements from the White House have indicated that “if the final bill were to include funds that continue the existing VH-71 program…the President’s senior advisers would recommend that he veto the bill.” The threat of that possible veto has apparently become more intense this month, particularly after the House and Senate sent the defense authorization bill to the President without including funding for the program. The President signed this bill on October 28.
Murtha was, and presumably still is, in favor of a VH-71 Increment 1 solution, but he apparently succumbed to recent pressure from the White House and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) to withdraw his support. Regarding his change of mind, Murtha explained that while he thought there could be enough votes in Congress to overcome a veto, “We are not going to embarrass the President.”
When it became obvious that the 2010 defense appropriations would not get passed before the start of the new fiscal year on October 1, Congress passed a continuing resolution to keep the defense department funded. While the conference committee has informally negotiated the bill, according to Murtha, and it could be brought up for a vote within a week. Congress could pass the final bill before Thanksgiving, but it might get delayed until December.
By: R. Randall Padfield
November 5, 2009
Not unlike the way the Philadelphia Phillies’ chances of winning this year’s World Series decreased substantially on Sunday when they lost game four to the New York Yankees, the Lockheed Martin/AgustaWestland VH-71 presidential helicopter’s chances of receiving funding in this year’s defense appropriations bill diminished considerably yesterday when Congressman John Murtha (D-Pa.) apparently removed his support of the program. Murtha’s viewpoint counts because he is chairman of the House of Representatives Appropriations Committee and the House and Senate are in the final stages of ironing out the differences between their two versions of the defense appropriations bill. The House’s version contains $400 million to continue development of the VH-71 Increment 1 program, and with an additional $4 billion or so, put five VH-71s in the President’s helicopter fleet in the next few years. The Senate’s version does not.
President Obama has said he’s happy with the Sikorsky VH-3D helicopters the fleet has now. Official statements from the White House have indicated that “if the final bill were to include funds that continue the existing VH-71 program…the President’s senior advisers would recommend that he veto the bill.” The threat of that possible veto has apparently become more intense this month, particularly after the House and Senate sent the defense authorization bill to the President without including funding for the program. The President signed this bill on October 28.
Murtha was, and presumably still is, in favor of a VH-71 Increment 1 solution, but he apparently succumbed to recent pressure from the White House and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) to withdraw his support. Regarding his change of mind, Murtha explained that while he thought there could be enough votes in Congress to overcome a veto, “We are not going to embarrass the President.”
When it became obvious that the 2010 defense appropriations would not get passed before the start of the new fiscal year on October 1, Congress passed a continuing resolution to keep the defense department funded. While the conference committee has informally negotiated the bill, according to Murtha, and it could be brought up for a vote within a week. Congress could pass the final bill before Thanksgiving, but it might get delayed until December.
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Looks like the VH-71 is kept alive:
Senate approves $636 billion military spending bill - Yahoo! Canada News
carholme
Senate approves $636 billion military spending bill - Yahoo! Canada News
carholme
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And you thought the VH-71A was expensive. (What's a decimal point between friends? 
)
I/C
)
Sikorsky gets $8.4B Navy helicopter contract
Associated Press June 16th 2010
The U.S. Defense Department said Wednesday it will modify an existing contract with Sikorsky Aircraft Corp. and pay the contractor $8.4 billion for the VH-3D executive helicopter special progressive aircraft rework induction.
Sikorsky, a subsidiary of United Technologies Corp., will perform the work in Stratford, Conn., for the Naval Air systems Command of Patuxent River, Md.
The department said the job is expected to be completed in August 2011.
Associated Press June 16th 2010
The U.S. Defense Department said Wednesday it will modify an existing contract with Sikorsky Aircraft Corp. and pay the contractor $8.4 billion for the VH-3D executive helicopter special progressive aircraft rework induction.
Sikorsky, a subsidiary of United Technologies Corp., will perform the work in Stratford, Conn., for the Naval Air systems Command of Patuxent River, Md.
The department said the job is expected to be completed in August 2011.
@Ian
Illiterate journalists do make for some funny stories.
@ widgeon: 8.4 million sounds about right, depending on what the SLEP/overhaul package entails.
FWIW: Sikorsky has been under contract to do periodic depot level maintenance for the VH-3's for a long time. This award may just be the continuation of the usual rework/overhaul cycle.
Illiterate journalists do make for some funny stories.
@ widgeon: 8.4 million sounds about right, depending on what the SLEP/overhaul package entails.
FWIW: Sikorsky has been under contract to do periodic depot level maintenance for the VH-3's for a long time. This award may just be the continuation of the usual rework/overhaul cycle.
