Gazelle: Flying, operating, buying
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Heliport
Thanks for the info.
I have spoken to Martin at Helitech and I intend to whizz down to Stapleford in the near future to look at the gazelle's there.
Thanks again
Thanks for the info.
I have spoken to Martin at Helitech and I intend to whizz down to Stapleford in the near future to look at the gazelle's there.
Thanks again
Also try Kev Brigden who is selling quite a few refurbished Gazelles, on:
South West Aviation Services, at:
01872 225854 or [email protected].
He has reupholstered them, blanked off the mil comm/nav aspects and repainted them, new carpets etc.
Permit to fly also doesn't allow you to fly over built up areas so no flights to london!
You can "train" your passengers to be ground crew in a few minutes to get round this aspect of it.
Reliability of spares is another issue you might want to consider.
But at £145,000 each....they're a snip..aren't they Kev?
South West Aviation Services, at:
01872 225854 or [email protected].
He has reupholstered them, blanked off the mil comm/nav aspects and repainted them, new carpets etc.
Permit to fly also doesn't allow you to fly over built up areas so no flights to london!
You can "train" your passengers to be ground crew in a few minutes to get round this aspect of it.
Reliability of spares is another issue you might want to consider.
But at £145,000 each....they're a snip..aren't they Kev?
Senis Semper Fidelis
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Hi TC,
Might be alittle high for only a Permit to fly, BUUUTTT what a peach to handle, its the sort of Heli that wet dreams are made of!!
In My humble Op
My Regards
Might be alittle high for only a Permit to fly, BUUUTTT what a peach to handle, its the sort of Heli that wet dreams are made of!!
In My humble Op
My Regards
Join Date: Mar 2000
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TC
Do you mean 'reliability' of spares?
What's the problem?
Or did you mean to say 'availability'?
I've taken this up with my Gazelle contact and am informed that used to be a problem, but MW Helicopters have bought up an enormous supply of spares. Says they've never let him down yet.
The Permit restrictions can be a nuisance, depending where you live, where you want to fly etc.
Isn't it stupid of the CAA to refuse to issue a full CofA?
But, in these days of seemingly nothing but bad news for aviation, maybe some good news.
At Helitech, I saw that MW Helicopters can supply ex-mil Gazelles on a foreign register with a full CofA ie no restrictions.
It might not suit some egotist who needs a 'G' for his 'personal' reg (G-EOFF, G-ERRY etc
), but it's an option. I've noticed that quite a few UK Gazelle owners seem to leave them on the 'F' register at the moment.
So the potential purchaser may now have a choice: CAA Permit with restrictions, or foreign CofA without - at the same price.
Do you mean 'reliability' of spares?
What's the problem?
Or did you mean to say 'availability'?
I've taken this up with my Gazelle contact and am informed that used to be a problem, but MW Helicopters have bought up an enormous supply of spares. Says they've never let him down yet.
The Permit restrictions can be a nuisance, depending where you live, where you want to fly etc.
Isn't it stupid of the CAA to refuse to issue a full CofA?
But, in these days of seemingly nothing but bad news for aviation, maybe some good news.
At Helitech, I saw that MW Helicopters can supply ex-mil Gazelles on a foreign register with a full CofA ie no restrictions.
It might not suit some egotist who needs a 'G' for his 'personal' reg (G-EOFF, G-ERRY etc
), but it's an option. I've noticed that quite a few UK Gazelle owners seem to leave them on the 'F' register at the moment.So the potential purchaser may now have a choice: CAA Permit with restrictions, or foreign CofA without - at the same price.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Vfrpilotpb
Tell us more about your Gazelle trip.
Is it yours?
Who supplied it?
What's the after sales service like?
Is it a civvy or ex-mil?
G-reg or foreign Reg?
Utility of one of the luxury versions?
Have you (of the owner if not you) experienced any difficulty with maintenance/spares?
Are you/the owner happy with it?
Would you/he recommend a Gazelle?
etc etc
Tell us more about your Gazelle trip.
Is it yours?
Who supplied it?
What's the after sales service like?
Is it a civvy or ex-mil?
G-reg or foreign Reg?
Utility of one of the luxury versions?
Have you (of the owner if not you) experienced any difficulty with maintenance/spares?
Are you/the owner happy with it?
Would you/he recommend a Gazelle?
etc etc
Join Date: Feb 2001
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and MW's latest preference is the Swaziland register! There was one at Helitech for a couple of days with a 3D- prefix and look out for more of those - they reckon five by Christmas with 3D registrations!
Senis Semper Fidelis
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Good morning Heliport,
Gaz belongs to a friend of mine, super guy who was converted from R22 to the Gaz by a well known converter from Shawbury!
Purchashed from MW heli's and is on Frog Register, The A/c has always been civvie, and is a superb piece of kit, it is decked out just like the highest ( no pun) spec Limo ,
We tried last week (Wednesday) to get down to Dux, but after two attempts the farthest we got was to just south of Stoke, we tried high and low but "No Go", we had with us a very experienced pilot, and it was only his expertise that got us down that far, the Gaz cover so much ground so quickley, but obviously at a price for those of you who dont know it burns about 40 /50 galls per hour, but it is a small price to pay for such performance.
My pal who owns it has no problem with the service side , and says MW helis are brilliant, spare are no Prob at all.
All round it is a very good heli , one that most pilots should try to fly, just to see how our Government has looked after our Mil pilots in the Past!!
Hope that helps,
My Regards
[ 04 October 2001: Message edited by: Vfrpilotpb ]
Gaz belongs to a friend of mine, super guy who was converted from R22 to the Gaz by a well known converter from Shawbury!
Purchashed from MW heli's and is on Frog Register, The A/c has always been civvie, and is a superb piece of kit, it is decked out just like the highest ( no pun) spec Limo ,
We tried last week (Wednesday) to get down to Dux, but after two attempts the farthest we got was to just south of Stoke, we tried high and low but "No Go", we had with us a very experienced pilot, and it was only his expertise that got us down that far, the Gaz cover so much ground so quickley, but obviously at a price for those of you who dont know it burns about 40 /50 galls per hour, but it is a small price to pay for such performance.
My pal who owns it has no problem with the service side , and says MW helis are brilliant, spare are no Prob at all.
All round it is a very good heli , one that most pilots should try to fly, just to see how our Government has looked after our Mil pilots in the Past!!
Hope that helps,
My Regards
[ 04 October 2001: Message edited by: Vfrpilotpb ]
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Thanks for the input.
I agree 40/50 gph wouldn't be bad - Jet A1 is cheap, and you get a 135 kt cruise.
But I thought fuel burn was nearer 30 gph.
I know what you mean about the interiors. I saw them at Helitech - magnolia hide, matching trim, etc, looked like they'd been kitted out by Ferrari.
[ 04 October 2001: Message edited by: Heliport ]
I agree 40/50 gph wouldn't be bad - Jet A1 is cheap, and you get a 135 kt cruise.
But I thought fuel burn was nearer 30 gph.
I know what you mean about the interiors. I saw them at Helitech - magnolia hide, matching trim, etc, looked like they'd been kitted out by Ferrari.
[ 04 October 2001: Message edited by: Heliport ]
Gaz fuel burn is a little less than 2.5kg per minute flat out - don't know what that is in gals/hr.
A freind has just bought a civvy Gaz for £180K'ish. Can carry 5 without restrictions so makes £145K for an ex-mil '2-seater' seem expensive.
Also, watch out for component times. A new engine / MRH are serious £££.
However, you don't usually find Ferrari owners complaining about fuel economy or servicing costs! In helicopter terms, the Gaz definitely performs like a Ferrari!
A freind has just bought a civvy Gaz for £180K'ish. Can carry 5 without restrictions so makes £145K for an ex-mil '2-seater' seem expensive.
Also, watch out for component times. A new engine / MRH are serious £££.
However, you don't usually find Ferrari owners complaining about fuel economy or servicing costs! In helicopter terms, the Gaz definitely performs like a Ferrari!
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Swazi reg Gazelles
Reports in the UK today of the fact that MW Helicopters are being told by the UK CAA to stop flying 3D- (Swaziland) registered Gazelles until they can prove their airworthiness. These are all ex UK military Gazelles as referred to in posts around Helitech time.
Anyone know any more or can confirm this?
Anyone know any more or can confirm this?
Join Date: Mar 2000
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What sad news, if it's true.
And a predictable fit of pique by the petty minded penpushers at the CAA.
Trouble is that, as most people find out when they have to deal with the CAA, logical arguments are no match for stubborn attitudes.
This is the British ego at its embarrassing worst. But it's no surprise. As the CAA doesn't even accept that the FAA knows how to run aviation, a small African country stands no chance even though they are full members of ICAO.
The ex-mil Gazelles are off the same production line as the civvy versions, with a different engine which has proved itself to be one of the most reliable heli engines ever produced.
I hope MW Helicopters eventually win the battle, although with the CAA holding all the Aces it's going to be difficult.
They've established themselves as the leading Gazelle experts, turn out stunning refurbished helicopters as anyone who has flown their Gazelles will vouch for, and they deserve to win.
Good Luck, MW Helicopters.
And a predictable fit of pique by the petty minded penpushers at the CAA.
Trouble is that, as most people find out when they have to deal with the CAA, logical arguments are no match for stubborn attitudes.
This is the British ego at its embarrassing worst. But it's no surprise. As the CAA doesn't even accept that the FAA knows how to run aviation, a small African country stands no chance even though they are full members of ICAO.
The ex-mil Gazelles are off the same production line as the civvy versions, with a different engine which has proved itself to be one of the most reliable heli engines ever produced.
I hope MW Helicopters eventually win the battle, although with the CAA holding all the Aces it's going to be difficult.
They've established themselves as the leading Gazelle experts, turn out stunning refurbished helicopters as anyone who has flown their Gazelles will vouch for, and they deserve to win.
Good Luck, MW Helicopters.
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A few questions:
Why do they have to be registered in Swazi, and not by the CAA. They were good enough to be flown by UK mil PLC and have well documented service history. Why are they all of a sudden not fit to fly. Why only a permit to fly?
When are the next batch of Gazelles being sold and where will the auction be?
Anyone have any info?
Why do they have to be registered in Swazi, and not by the CAA. They were good enough to be flown by UK mil PLC and have well documented service history. Why are they all of a sudden not fit to fly. Why only a permit to fly?
When are the next batch of Gazelles being sold and where will the auction be?
Anyone have any info?
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jiffni
The answer to your question is because that's what the CAA have decided.
I can only assume that you've never had to deal with the Campaign. There are aviators, and there are CAA pen-pushers.
Unfortunately, experience shows that logical, rational arguments like yours cut no ice at all with the pen-pushers, but the pen-pushers have all the power.
The answer to your question is because that's what the CAA have decided.
I can only assume that you've never had to deal with the Campaign. There are aviators, and there are CAA pen-pushers.
Unfortunately, experience shows that logical, rational arguments like yours cut no ice at all with the pen-pushers, but the pen-pushers have all the power.
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Others are better qualified than me on this, but the CAA restrictions include max 4POB for starters (and if memory serves, some odd clause about no kids under 16??). Hence the need to look elsewhere to get 5POB in a machine made for 5POB....
The main difference is that the ending is a different engine - the ex-mil ones having an Astazou III while the SA341G civil model has the Astazou XIV. Even odder is that the CAA do not allow the SA342J/L models which have a marginally longer cabin and the same XIV engine that they are happy with in the 341G model.
With MW involved in five French registered Gazelles in the UK (and that interest dating back to May 98), I am also wondering why the option of putting these ex-mil helicopters on the F register has seemingly been rejected.
Even more interesting, the first ex-UK-mil Gazelle has now appeared on the FAA register.... and the FAA regaards the type of helicopter as having 5 seats (check landings.com for reg N911XW if you like..)
The main difference is that the ending is a different engine - the ex-mil ones having an Astazou III while the SA341G civil model has the Astazou XIV. Even odder is that the CAA do not allow the SA342J/L models which have a marginally longer cabin and the same XIV engine that they are happy with in the 341G model.
With MW involved in five French registered Gazelles in the UK (and that interest dating back to May 98), I am also wondering why the option of putting these ex-mil helicopters on the F register has seemingly been rejected.
Even more interesting, the first ex-UK-mil Gazelle has now appeared on the FAA register.... and the FAA regaards the type of helicopter as having 5 seats (check landings.com for reg N911XW if you like..)
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Well it seems that the CAA have lost the plot and thrown their teddys out of the cot.
They have tried invoking article 33 annex 8 off the ICAO convention.
Regarding type certification by member states. Otherwise they are saying that the Swaziland CAA are not up to it and they will have to prove certification as the UK CAA regard the ex mil aircraft as a different type of gazelle. ie as the 206L is different to the 206B. Tosh! they are upset that MW have got the upperhand and found away of promoting the aircraft. They are also inferring that the aircraft were built to a different standard at Westlands, even though the civilian machines were plucked from the military production line. Regarding engine types: The basic 341G civil has an astazou 111A/B engine which is the same as the original 111N military engine. The 342 version has the astazou XIV engine, whilst the retrofitted military machines have the astazou 111N2 which is a UK only engine type.For this reason the Aircraft cannot be registered in France along with laws regarding the use of ex-mil machines.
So it will now be down to the Swaziland CAA to prove that they are happy with the aircraft (which they have already done!)but forgot to ask for permission from those that know!! and the UK CAA to accept this without loss of face!.
They have tried invoking article 33 annex 8 off the ICAO convention.
Regarding type certification by member states. Otherwise they are saying that the Swaziland CAA are not up to it and they will have to prove certification as the UK CAA regard the ex mil aircraft as a different type of gazelle. ie as the 206L is different to the 206B. Tosh! they are upset that MW have got the upperhand and found away of promoting the aircraft. They are also inferring that the aircraft were built to a different standard at Westlands, even though the civilian machines were plucked from the military production line. Regarding engine types: The basic 341G civil has an astazou 111A/B engine which is the same as the original 111N military engine. The 342 version has the astazou XIV engine, whilst the retrofitted military machines have the astazou 111N2 which is a UK only engine type.For this reason the Aircraft cannot be registered in France along with laws regarding the use of ex-mil machines.
So it will now be down to the Swaziland CAA to prove that they are happy with the aircraft (which they have already done!)but forgot to ask for permission from those that know!! and the UK CAA to accept this without loss of face!.
I am very interested in the "N" registered ex UK-military Gazelle in the States.
Does anyone know what category it is certified under, as I would imagine it is an experimental category.
Does anyone know what category it is certified under, as I would imagine it is an experimental category.
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There is a stretched 342 Gazelle at Bristol with French registration - it's burghundy red with tan interior and I think its reg is F-GGTJ. Perhaps the engine was upgraded recently. Looks the biz, even if it's noisier than BA's Embraers. Dream machine.