Coppers and Copters
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 101
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From: UK
Flying Lawyer: OK I glanced over Cyclic Hotline's thread; as it read (at the start) word for word as was reported in the London Evening Standard yesterday. Guilty as charged.
But, the police prepared a case and thought it worthwhile. The CPS agreed that a prosecution was likely given the evidence and took it to court, the magistrates agreed that the law was breached - that's the system.
The aircraft probably combined this task with several others so the flight time was minimal.
As an aside I have lost count of the number of times people have nearly hit my car or have nearly caused an accident in their car when on the phone or sorting CD's etc. If was down to me I would tear their licence up on the spot
But, the police prepared a case and thought it worthwhile. The CPS agreed that a prosecution was likely given the evidence and took it to court, the magistrates agreed that the law was breached - that's the system.
The aircraft probably combined this task with several others so the flight time was minimal.
As an aside I have lost count of the number of times people have nearly hit my car or have nearly caused an accident in their car when on the phone or sorting CD's etc. If was down to me I would tear their licence up on the spot
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38
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From: uk
Semi Rigid,
I think I have heard enough.
When was the last time you blew your nose whilst driving or do you always pull into the side of the road (or use the sleeve on your police flying suit), like the very good boy you are?
Also, how often do you see a jam sandwhich driver using a microphone whilst pursuing some scrote (you see it on chopper copper television!)? I see policemen driving whilst using mobile phones more often than they should use them and I should see them - so where do we draw the line? Should we pull over, call 999 and report them - or is that wasting police time?
The policeman might have the power but he should not abuse the resources available without criticism and, when he does, without some sort of serious penalty?
Earpiece
"Believe nothing you hear and half of what you see and you will be nearer the truth"
I think I have heard enough.
When was the last time you blew your nose whilst driving or do you always pull into the side of the road (or use the sleeve on your police flying suit), like the very good boy you are?
Also, how often do you see a jam sandwhich driver using a microphone whilst pursuing some scrote (you see it on chopper copper television!)? I see policemen driving whilst using mobile phones more often than they should use them and I should see them - so where do we draw the line? Should we pull over, call 999 and report them - or is that wasting police time?
The policeman might have the power but he should not abuse the resources available without criticism and, when he does, without some sort of serious penalty?
Earpiece
"Believe nothing you hear and half of what you see and you will be nearer the truth"
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 151
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From: I have a home where the Junglies roam.
Also, how often do you see a jam sandwhich driver using a microphone whilst pursuing some scrote
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 699
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From: 18 Degrees North
it seems to me that there is a increasing tendency for the media / police to view any secondary tasks as dangerous as far as car driving is concerned, so at the moment the holding the phone is outlawed, next i guess we will be told we cant operate the stereo and drive safely, if it comes to that what about the wipers and the indicators and the lights ! dont they all detract from the business of driving ?
wheras you get in your helicopter on day 1 of flight school and they do nothimg but load you up with tasks, flying, talking, messing about with maps, and they even had me drawing on maps with my left hand years ago.
seems to me that multi-tasking is perfectly possible and i hope the nanny state does not interfere with the driving experience any more
regards
CF
wheras you get in your helicopter on day 1 of flight school and they do nothimg but load you up with tasks, flying, talking, messing about with maps, and they even had me drawing on maps with my left hand years ago.
seems to me that multi-tasking is perfectly possible and i hope the nanny state does not interfere with the driving experience any more
regards
CF
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Another one to make me think that the police appear to be losing the plot. Talk about going for "soft targets"....
Anyone know where I can get a hands free apple?
Anyone know where I can get a hands free apple?
Hovering AND talking
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,711
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From: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Never tried bobbing for apples? You could rig up a similar system except the apple could be suspended from a piece of string.
Alternatively, perhaps your wife could hold... the apple... for you!
Cheers
Whirls
Alternatively, perhaps your wife could hold... the apple... for you!
Cheers
Whirls
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 1,083
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Hearing that suggestion reminds me of a certain news story of a few years ago about a certain "East Enders" lady, Gillian Taylforth, I think. However, didn't they still get prosecuted even though she was allegedly "bobbing for apples" while he was doing the driving? 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 202
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From: UK
Blue light tax collectors
It all supports my crazy hypothesis that the Government actually likes and even seeks to encourage crime...
For example: Burglary - if you batter an intruder you end up paying a fortune for decent legal support, MPs are mostly lawyers by trade and so it makes work for their brethren. Of course all the fees are then taxed and that's good for the exchequer! Should the burglars get away, (and we are encouraged to let them), we have to claim on our insurance to replace our stolen goods. That means we pay VAT on the replacements, good for Mr. Brown's red briefcase again, and we're helping the economy by keeping all those stores in business, and their staff employed, off the dole queue and paying PAYE. Then of course our insurance company puts up our premium next year, increasing their revenues, and we pay more tax on that. Think of the drastic negative effect we'd have on the economy if we were allowed to shoot burglars!!!
As for elevating the eating of groceries at the wheel to a criminal level, obviously that's good too! It adds to the government statistics to show just how dangerous our roads are, yet another person not in proper control of their vehicle, the situation's getting worse (next year they'll add sneezing while steering to the list of hanging offences), obviously indicating that more needs to be done to clamp down on this dangerous trend and to issue more fines to teach us all a valuable lesson, that even after we've been robbed at the pump for 80% fuel duty, we're still duty bound to expect to provide revenue at every opportunity. It wont be long before they decide that broken down motorists need also be taught a severe lesson, it's obviously their fault that their vehicles are inadequately maintained, are causing an obstruction (slows down traffic of others seeking to do their bit for the economy by getting to work on time) and fines them too. Not only that, but those of us who suffer by being late for work because of them and our employers will be able to apply to their insurance companies for recompense, their insurance will go up and again, more cash in the government pot through the tax.
It's all a conspiracy, I swear it... pretty soon, they'll just abandon salaries and any kind of personal income and we'll all just be filiing expenses.
Si
For example: Burglary - if you batter an intruder you end up paying a fortune for decent legal support, MPs are mostly lawyers by trade and so it makes work for their brethren. Of course all the fees are then taxed and that's good for the exchequer! Should the burglars get away, (and we are encouraged to let them), we have to claim on our insurance to replace our stolen goods. That means we pay VAT on the replacements, good for Mr. Brown's red briefcase again, and we're helping the economy by keeping all those stores in business, and their staff employed, off the dole queue and paying PAYE. Then of course our insurance company puts up our premium next year, increasing their revenues, and we pay more tax on that. Think of the drastic negative effect we'd have on the economy if we were allowed to shoot burglars!!!
As for elevating the eating of groceries at the wheel to a criminal level, obviously that's good too! It adds to the government statistics to show just how dangerous our roads are, yet another person not in proper control of their vehicle, the situation's getting worse (next year they'll add sneezing while steering to the list of hanging offences), obviously indicating that more needs to be done to clamp down on this dangerous trend and to issue more fines to teach us all a valuable lesson, that even after we've been robbed at the pump for 80% fuel duty, we're still duty bound to expect to provide revenue at every opportunity. It wont be long before they decide that broken down motorists need also be taught a severe lesson, it's obviously their fault that their vehicles are inadequately maintained, are causing an obstruction (slows down traffic of others seeking to do their bit for the economy by getting to work on time) and fines them too. Not only that, but those of us who suffer by being late for work because of them and our employers will be able to apply to their insurance companies for recompense, their insurance will go up and again, more cash in the government pot through the tax.
It's all a conspiracy, I swear it... pretty soon, they'll just abandon salaries and any kind of personal income and we'll all just be filiing expenses.
Si
Scalextric for Men
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 277
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From: Southern England outside the M25
Next thing you know....if you don't have your bicycle clips on...you will be in front of the judge explaining your self.
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 1,286
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From: I have no idea but the view's great.
South Tyneside magistrates found that she was not in proper control of her car
Spend time, like the police officer who stopped her, at fatal road traffic collisions or telling the family of the deceased how it happened and you may think differently about this case.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 89
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From: USA & UK
"That's all there is to it - there was a case to answer and everything possible was done to secure a prosecution.
Spend time, like the police officer who stopped her, at fatal road traffic collisions or telling the family of the deceased how it happened and you may think differently about this case."
J.A.F.O.
Interesting comment albeit a tad over dramatic. In fourteen years I've been to and supervised the handling of hundreds of fataccs and seraccs and not one involved an apple or any other kind of fruit for that matter.
This is a plain and simple case of police/cps saving face after a bit of over zealous ticketing.......! Maybe the girl just failed the attitude test.
Spend time, like the police officer who stopped her, at fatal road traffic collisions or telling the family of the deceased how it happened and you may think differently about this case."
J.A.F.O.
Interesting comment albeit a tad over dramatic. In fourteen years I've been to and supervised the handling of hundreds of fataccs and seraccs and not one involved an apple or any other kind of fruit for that matter.
This is a plain and simple case of police/cps saving face after a bit of over zealous ticketing.......! Maybe the girl just failed the attitude test.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,444
Likes: 21
From: Beyond the black stump!
Maybe they are right?
I have never really experienced any distraction while driving and doing something else at the same time.
But last night was different. I nearly crashed as a result of having my attention divided between driving like a maniac and shining my laser pointer at a police helicopter that was hovering overhead.
They actually might have a point there!
I have never really experienced any distraction while driving and doing something else at the same time.
But last night was different. I nearly crashed as a result of having my attention divided between driving like a maniac and shining my laser pointer at a police helicopter that was hovering overhead.
They actually might have a point there!
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,931
Likes: 142
From: Warrington, UK
In fourteen years I've been to and supervised the handling of hundreds of fataccs and seraccs and not one involved an apple or any other kind of fruit for that matter.
Attended a 2 car road traffic accident early the the other day; one driver had appeared to have drifted across centre of a narrow country road on a bend and hit an oncoming car head on.
The driver of the car on the wrong side of the road had her breakfast toast trapped in her hand across her chest by the caved in dashboard. (Page 1)
The driver of the car on the wrong side of the road had her breakfast toast trapped in her hand across her chest by the caved in dashboard. (Page 1)
Senis Semper Fidelis
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,288
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From: Lancashire U K
City of Liverpool Police, are in my view some of the fairest in the land ( and I aint talking hair colour).
Comming away from a meeting were a lot of people like me had just discovered that we had all lost many thousands of pounds in a company who had gone bust, suffice to say I was not a happy bunny, so screeching along the Dock road to get back to my office I was also on the mob to arranged a contract killer for the bankrupt guys, when lo and behold out of my tiny blindspot popped a Police motorcyclist waving at me to pull over,
After a few minutes of discussion as to why I was speeding on his road, he looked me in the eye and said, "we all have some sort of problem, calm down, think of your children, and drive carefully out of Liverpool , in fact I will escort you out"
No 1 I felt like a Nurd for allowing my temper to stop me thinking safety.
No 2 I felt like a child for being chastised.
No 3 I started to feel better when he didn't book me
No 4 I felt elated when I left Liverpool, with a Solitary Chips man waving at me.
I felt, and still feel lucky to have met such a Policeman, I have met many who arn't worthy of the uniform, But when I drive in built up areas I still today remember the words of that Policemen.
His words did more than all the misdemeaner tickets ever could have done!
PeterR-B
Vfr
Comming away from a meeting were a lot of people like me had just discovered that we had all lost many thousands of pounds in a company who had gone bust, suffice to say I was not a happy bunny, so screeching along the Dock road to get back to my office I was also on the mob to arranged a contract killer for the bankrupt guys, when lo and behold out of my tiny blindspot popped a Police motorcyclist waving at me to pull over,
After a few minutes of discussion as to why I was speeding on his road, he looked me in the eye and said, "we all have some sort of problem, calm down, think of your children, and drive carefully out of Liverpool , in fact I will escort you out"
No 1 I felt like a Nurd for allowing my temper to stop me thinking safety.
No 2 I felt like a child for being chastised.
No 3 I started to feel better when he didn't book me
No 4 I felt elated when I left Liverpool, with a Solitary Chips man waving at me.
I felt, and still feel lucky to have met such a Policeman, I have met many who arn't worthy of the uniform, But when I drive in built up areas I still today remember the words of that Policemen.
His words did more than all the misdemeaner tickets ever could have done!
PeterR-B
Vfr
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
From: Geographically misplaced, but never lost.
It's all in the attitude
Have you passed your attitude test lately.
If you ever have a chance of getting out of a minor infringement you will have the final say... pass the attitude test.
"Yes Sir, No Sir, That was a bad idea Sir and I should have had more sense Sir, Sorry Sir" as opposed to:
"What the F*&k are you pulling me over for, I pay your wages you know isn't there some rapist you should be catching"
But then sometimes you will just have to wear it... I do know (seen it first hand) a Traffic Cop who has actually given their own mother a ticket.
"Mum you should know better...."
"This ones for all those dodgy lunches you used to make me, and the time you asked if I was wearing clean underwear in front of the entire football team"
If you ever have a chance of getting out of a minor infringement you will have the final say... pass the attitude test.
"Yes Sir, No Sir, That was a bad idea Sir and I should have had more sense Sir, Sorry Sir" as opposed to:
"What the F*&k are you pulling me over for, I pay your wages you know isn't there some rapist you should be catching"
But then sometimes you will just have to wear it... I do know (seen it first hand) a Traffic Cop who has actually given their own mother a ticket.
"Mum you should know better...."
"This ones for all those dodgy lunches you used to make me, and the time you asked if I was wearing clean underwear in front of the entire football team"
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 88
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From: UK
2Sticks
It's just such a shame that, if a prosecution followed because as a result of an over-zealous policeman or maybe a reaction to a road user who wasn't servile enough, that the magistrates (who are supposed to be balanced members of the community and not a big stick for the CPS) couldn't see the prosecution for what it was. But before we agree that indeed it is dangerous for someone to be eating an apple, or proven to be so by eating toast, we should consider how many preventable accidents there are while doing something that is legal. Just to add to the many examples and hopefully further illustrate the stupidity of this prosecution, think about some of the following scenarios involving 'legal' actions:
- Making an adjustment to the settings on the in-car GPS
- Making an outgoing call on the mobile i.e. dialling the number while phone is in legal fixed car kit
- Trying to find an unfamiliar button on the car radio to change over band or to RDS or to some other function.
- Smoking cigarettes - just a minute I'll just ignite a naked flame and apply it to the cigarette while I'm driving.
- Oh dear, I've just knocked off the top of my lighted cigarette into my crutch while pulling down my sun visor. Fuuuuuuu*******************in' hell!
None of the above of course is as serious as holding an apple.
I'm all in favour of preventive measures but this is going too far!
2Sticks
- Making an adjustment to the settings on the in-car GPS
- Making an outgoing call on the mobile i.e. dialling the number while phone is in legal fixed car kit
- Trying to find an unfamiliar button on the car radio to change over band or to RDS or to some other function.
- Smoking cigarettes - just a minute I'll just ignite a naked flame and apply it to the cigarette while I'm driving.
- Oh dear, I've just knocked off the top of my lighted cigarette into my crutch while pulling down my sun visor. Fuuuuuuu*******************in' hell!
None of the above of course is as serious as holding an apple.
I'm all in favour of preventive measures but this is going too far!
2Sticks
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 1,286
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From: I have no idea but the view's great.
Surely the point isn't whether it is or is not safe to hold fruit whilst driving, the point is that she was not in proper control of her car - that's why she was stopped, that's why she was prosecuted.
If people can't control their cars then they hit other cars and people end up dead. No, she didn't kill anybody; yes, she was only holding a piece of fruit but the point is that Northumbria Police must be running this campaign for a reason and that reason is probably to try and have some impact (no pun intended) on the number of people killed or injured on their roads.
She wasn't prosecuted under the Holding Fruit Whilst Driving a Motor Vehicle Act of 1923. She was prosecuted for not being able to control her car.
It doesn't matter whether you believe that you can safely eat a four course dinner, call your friends, tune your radio, light a Havana cigar or juggle live mice whilst driving - what matters is that she couldn't control her car. The police officer said so and the magistrate believed that, endex.
If people can't control their cars then they hit other cars and people end up dead. No, she didn't kill anybody; yes, she was only holding a piece of fruit but the point is that Northumbria Police must be running this campaign for a reason and that reason is probably to try and have some impact (no pun intended) on the number of people killed or injured on their roads.
She wasn't prosecuted under the Holding Fruit Whilst Driving a Motor Vehicle Act of 1923. She was prosecuted for not being able to control her car.
It doesn't matter whether you believe that you can safely eat a four course dinner, call your friends, tune your radio, light a Havana cigar or juggle live mice whilst driving - what matters is that she couldn't control her car. The police officer said so and the magistrate believed that, endex.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,670
Likes: 1
From: UK
JAFO: It's not whether shes guilty or not guilty...og course she's guilty as sin itsef, but.....
Cracking the preverbial with a 20 ton hydraulic sledge hammer is a bit OTT.
She should have been stopped, charged ..end of story. Let the magistrates court take it from there. Police job over.
If she fights and kicks and screams, let the judge decide..
Choppers and video and fixed wing and 9 appearances in court.....c'mon, where's the sense in this??
Load of bollocks.
Cracking the preverbial with a 20 ton hydraulic sledge hammer is a bit OTT.
She should have been stopped, charged ..end of story. Let the magistrates court take it from there. Police job over.
If she fights and kicks and screams, let the judge decide..
Choppers and video and fixed wing and 9 appearances in court.....c'mon, where's the sense in this??
Load of bollocks.