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Downwind approaches

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Downwind approaches

Old 5th May 2013, 11:11
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Since this is a run-on landing to a runway and there is no implication of touching down with less than a positive airspeed and within U/C limits: what is the problem?

Unusual, certainly; but technically it sounds within limits and hardly something to be alarmed about. Out in the 'other' world of GA and aerial work you'll be coming in downwind, crosswind and vertically so there will be the usual plethora of Rotorhead views opined here, but this is my two pennyworth
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Old 5th May 2013, 12:37
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tail wind approaches on helicopter

Mmmmmmmmm ???

1 If you know your downwind
2 If you keep checking you have enough Aft cyclic (to slow down)
3 You have checked the Power available and know you have enough. ( to stop the R o D )

YOU WON,T HAVE A PROBLEM.

The problems happen when the pilot either:
1 Doesn,t realise he,s downwind
2 Lets a High RoD develop
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Old 5th May 2013, 19:24
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..just to add point 0.1 to P1drivers list:

0.1 If you don't have the option of a headwind landing

as for the rest, P1Driver said it all...

Last edited by wmy; 5th May 2013 at 19:24.
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Old 5th May 2013, 19:47
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Some Class A performance profiles prohibit a tailwind.

Apart from that, I see no issues; in fact I sometimes need to carry out that type of approach.
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Old 18th Sep 2023, 19:41
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To revive an old thread.....when teaching downwind approaches on the CAA PPL(H) syllabus, does everyone teach a "shallower than normal" approach angle?
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Old 18th Sep 2023, 21:38
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Originally Posted by ChitChat
Can I lean on all your experiences and ask what is the correct technique for approaching confined areas downwind if there is no way of approaching into wind.

I guess this comes down to the advanced techniques. What are your experiences.

Thanks
If you are light enough to HOGE, back it off to just about ETL and ride that vibration in nice and slow at like 150-200fpm.

,...and keep your feet awake, lol.

Hmm, just saw this thread is like twenty years old. Maybe have a statute of limitations on these things, 'cause,...dude!
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Old 18th Sep 2023, 21:50
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Shy.....quick question for you.....Is Cat A and Confined Areas a rather rare combination?
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Old 19th Sep 2023, 08:18
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Remind me the power check procedure (eg for 44 and 66)
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Old 19th Sep 2023, 09:41
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H99 like all helicopter stuff it is all to do with energy ( power )management.

Show your student it takes more energy to hover downwind ( due to us not being able to hold a steady hover ). This then moves on to losing translational lift early and at some distance and height from LZ. Therefore more energy required !
So engine can only give so much energy, so we know we are going to use more energy to hover and last bit of approach. Add to this the amount of energy ( power ) required to slow the aircraft both horizontally and vertically . So easy answer to use less energy, ( so one has more energy to play with ) is to have a shallow approach ! Try a normal approach then turn it round ( ie same heights, distance and ground speed ) student will immediately slow helicopter down and have a larger rate of decent to get down, therefore building up a lot of energy in the airframe ! Does the engine have enough energy to arrest the rate of descent, student pulls lever up , result nose goes up slowing the rate of descent, or so he thinks , but at the risk of coming off of translational lift, more energy required, which will rapidly increase ROD, thrust is now not vertical it is is behind as student is flaring the helicopter, so more energy required, now tail wants to weather cock, so more energy required, still out of ground effect so more energy required, sloppy handing as shown in hovering downwind so more energy required and so on
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Old 19th Sep 2023, 14:42
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For a look back into history re this topic of discussion.....we have been here before.


T/O Downwind -v- power available ?
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Old 19th Sep 2023, 15:57
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Originally Posted by love flying
Remind me the power check procedure (eg for 44 and 66)
Pull into HOGE, look at MAP.
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Old 19th Sep 2023, 17:41
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Originally Posted by SASless
Shy.....quick question for you.....Is Cat A and Confined Areas a rather rare combination?
Having managed to avoid Public Transport for the last twenty years of flying for my B, L and T, Class A wasn't mandatory in my job (in fact I only flew PT for two years of my four decades plus of flying), but I did always try to fly iaw Class A procedures whenever possible. However, regularly faced with a particular confined area landing site with only one clear route in and out, I often had to do one or the other downwind. I'd rather go in downwind light if it meant flying into wind when loaded up, for all the usual reasons.

No longer my problem though. These days I keep myself busy doing all sorts of stuff rather than aviation.

Last edited by ShyTorque; 19th Sep 2023 at 20:43. Reason: Grammar.
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Old 19th Sep 2023, 18:11
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Is Cat A and Confined Areas a rather rare combination?
The AW139 RFM, and I'm sure many other aircrafts RFMs, has a procedure for CAT A/PC1 confined area approaches and departures so not too rare.

Robbiee - if you don't have HOGE performance, downwind approaches would be very unwise.

The rotor doesn't know it is downwind so any variations in power hovering downwind are to do with overcontrolling on the pedals.

For a safe downwind approach, fly shallower than normal, get the airspeed off early and maintain a sensibly slow groundspeed.

If you are too fast at the end, the temptation is to flare but you don't get any benefit from a change in RAF when you are already downwind.

If in doubt overshoot early.

Make sure you have at least HOGE performance before trying it.
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Old 19th Sep 2023, 19:08
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
Robbiee - if you don't have HOGE performance, downwind approaches would be very unwise.
Lol, are downwind approaches ever really wise?
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Old 19th Sep 2023, 20:47
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Originally Posted by Robbiee
Lol, are downwind approaches ever really wise?
They’re unavoidable sometimes
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Old 19th Sep 2023, 21:42
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Originally Posted by hargreaves99
To revive an old thread.....when teaching downwind approaches on the CAA PPL(H) syllabus, does everyone teach a "shallower than normal" approach angle?
I don't teach CPL(H) but back when I was being taught, 'shallower than into wind' was certainly the theme. Various plausible explanations as to why, but I certainly feel more at peace flying a shallower approach if landing downwind.
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Old 19th Sep 2023, 21:45
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Originally Posted by 212man
They’re unavoidable sometimes
Sure, when you're getting paid, shot at,...or rescuing a hot chick from a hoard of zombies.

The three easiest ways to get a guy to do something that is "unwise", lol.
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Old 19th Sep 2023, 22:16
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My money's on this thread being resurrected again in 2033.
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Old 19th Sep 2023, 22:21
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Originally Posted by pilotmike
My money's on this thread being resurrected again in 2033.
along with a debate on VRS, H/V graphs and, for FW pilots, the “impossible turn”!
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Old 20th Sep 2023, 04:01
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Sure, when you're getting paid, shot at,...or rescuing a hot chick from a hoard of zombies.


Having no experience with hoards of zombies....and knowing you have to be around to spend money.....I cannot assign a probability of such things being an encouragement.

As to getting shot at....that will make you do a lot of things you would not ordinarily do.

Now as to the Blonde....if you are going to set a trap for helicopter pilots....that would be a good start.
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