what do you reckon
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Australasia
what do you reckon
someones chances are of getting a job if in there first year of instructing they crashed a machine due to pilot error and over speeded an engine on another..your thoughts please.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 1,083
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
someones chances are of getting a job...
I should just try Pizza Express....if you have your own moped...
I should just try Pizza Express....if you have your own moped...
Hovering AND talking
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,711
Likes: 1
From: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Hey, Pizza Express deliver? Excellent news!
The only problem with that is that a motorbike throttle works in the opposite direction to that of a helicopter. Can be confusing.
Seriously, you better take yourself back to to school and get some more hours under supervision if you want to work as a commercial pilot. The key here, I would think, would be admitting your errors and proving that you want to work to correct them.
The industry is very close-knit and I'm sure word gets round so, unless you work very hard, I would suspect that your chances are the square-root of diddly-squat. Perhaps have a chat with your Chief Pilot/Instructor; what are their views. They should also consider your total hours, how well you get on with students and how well they appear to be learning etc etc. But it doesn't sound good.
Cheers
Whirlygig
The only problem with that is that a motorbike throttle works in the opposite direction to that of a helicopter. Can be confusing.
Seriously, you better take yourself back to to school and get some more hours under supervision if you want to work as a commercial pilot. The key here, I would think, would be admitting your errors and proving that you want to work to correct them.
The industry is very close-knit and I'm sure word gets round so, unless you work very hard, I would suspect that your chances are the square-root of diddly-squat. Perhaps have a chat with your Chief Pilot/Instructor; what are their views. They should also consider your total hours, how well you get on with students and how well they appear to be learning etc etc. But it doesn't sound good.
Cheers
Whirlygig
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 1
From: USA
had enough,
The real queston is "Why the mistakes?" and only you (assuming it is you we are discussing) know that answer.
Inattention? Confusion? Haste? Poorly learned lessons? Bad coordination? Inability to quickly digest the situation? Letting students get too far into the problem?
Search hard inside yourself, because the ability to see bad things coming, and catch them while the error is small, is the lifeblood of a pilot. Do not believe the pilot who says he makes no mistakes, he is lying. Believe instead that he finds the mistakes at an early stage, and corrects them in turn.
The real queston is "Why the mistakes?" and only you (assuming it is you we are discussing) know that answer.
Inattention? Confusion? Haste? Poorly learned lessons? Bad coordination? Inability to quickly digest the situation? Letting students get too far into the problem?
Search hard inside yourself, because the ability to see bad things coming, and catch them while the error is small, is the lifeblood of a pilot. Do not believe the pilot who says he makes no mistakes, he is lying. Believe instead that he finds the mistakes at an early stage, and corrects them in turn.
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
Likes: 1,072
From: Downeast
Cheer up Mate!
I know some places that you get promoted at a rate commensurate to the number of prangs you have.....so all is not lost. Hang in there....get that first job....and after a bit...if you picked the right outfit you could be in the front office in no time at all.
But....as Nick says....all such events however minor should be an opportunity to learn something....otherwise all that expense is for nought.
I know some places that you get promoted at a rate commensurate to the number of prangs you have.....so all is not lost. Hang in there....get that first job....and after a bit...if you picked the right outfit you could be in the front office in no time at all.
But....as Nick says....all such events however minor should be an opportunity to learn something....otherwise all that expense is for nought.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,848
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From: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
I flew with a boke that crashed one whilst instructing, and he was in a newly appointed position when I flew with him. found him to be quite a good instructor. sometimes one can make a mistake and learn from it. As we all know, it doesn't take much to prang one.......especially whilst training, and being a new instructor the margins would be smaller. I would imagine a possible employer would take that into account. but the engine overspeed as well.....Hmmm, maybe it wouldn't be looked apon as being an advantage to add it to the CV.
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
Likes: 2
From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Most people will forgive you one mistake, for all the reasons mentioned above. We all know that there but for the Grace of God...etc etc.
Two mistakes compounds the problem. It will make people wonder... And it should make you think too. Only you know the reasons for what happened, and if you don't, find them out. Be willing to do extra training, to do whatever it takes, to make sure that you've learned from the experiences and that it doesn't happen again. Make sure that others know it too; don't try to hide; this industry is too small for that.
After that? All it takes is one chance, and one person prepared to give you that chance. I'm no expert, but I'd say your chances aren't as good as they would have been without the incidents, but not as bad as it might appear.
I know someone in the f/w world with a similar background who's now, after a struggle, doing very well.
Two mistakes compounds the problem. It will make people wonder... And it should make you think too. Only you know the reasons for what happened, and if you don't, find them out. Be willing to do extra training, to do whatever it takes, to make sure that you've learned from the experiences and that it doesn't happen again. Make sure that others know it too; don't try to hide; this industry is too small for that.
After that? All it takes is one chance, and one person prepared to give you that chance. I'm no expert, but I'd say your chances aren't as good as they would have been without the incidents, but not as bad as it might appear.
I know someone in the f/w world with a similar background who's now, after a struggle, doing very well.
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 338
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From: UK
Had Enough
Isn't your statement "showing off I bet" a bit like pre-judging the accused. What was his reason for landing in the chosen location, who was handling the aircraft at the time, was any mechanical fault diagnosed etc etc etc.
As for allowing a student to crash during the first year as an instructor - I did just that during my first month but still carried on for many years as the school I was working for was run by adult minded, clear thinking people who put me through my paces immediately following the accident and put me back on instructor duties the following day. The reasons behind the decision - 1. I didn't try to make any excuses other than I took over control, or tried to take over control too late. 2. I learned a huge amount from the accident and ensured that it would never happen to me again.
I believe that provided that you are honest with yourself and others regarding the reasons behind any errors you have made, and that you do everything to learn and understand what should be done, you become a better pilot for so doing. Admittedly it is best not to have any accidents at all, but there are countless helicopter instructors out there who will no doubt be able to tell you of minor and/or major incidents and accidents which they have encountered during their time as instructors.
To summarise - Don't pre-judge somebody just because it appears that what they were doing might appear to have been foolish. Look for the real reasons behind the accident/incident. Anybody who has suffered such problems that you have mentioned need not be cast into the rubbish bin for life provided he or she has learned from the situation and doesn't try to invent excuses to cover their jacksies......
Isn't your statement "showing off I bet" a bit like pre-judging the accused. What was his reason for landing in the chosen location, who was handling the aircraft at the time, was any mechanical fault diagnosed etc etc etc.
As for allowing a student to crash during the first year as an instructor - I did just that during my first month but still carried on for many years as the school I was working for was run by adult minded, clear thinking people who put me through my paces immediately following the accident and put me back on instructor duties the following day. The reasons behind the decision - 1. I didn't try to make any excuses other than I took over control, or tried to take over control too late. 2. I learned a huge amount from the accident and ensured that it would never happen to me again.
I believe that provided that you are honest with yourself and others regarding the reasons behind any errors you have made, and that you do everything to learn and understand what should be done, you become a better pilot for so doing. Admittedly it is best not to have any accidents at all, but there are countless helicopter instructors out there who will no doubt be able to tell you of minor and/or major incidents and accidents which they have encountered during their time as instructors.
To summarise - Don't pre-judge somebody just because it appears that what they were doing might appear to have been foolish. Look for the real reasons behind the accident/incident. Anybody who has suffered such problems that you have mentioned need not be cast into the rubbish bin for life provided he or she has learned from the situation and doesn't try to invent excuses to cover their jacksies......
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
Likes: 2
From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
had enough,
OK, it sounds as though this person has difficulties. But NOTHING you told us so far proves that he/she can't learn from those difficulties and improve. If you are a person who is willing to learn, anything like those things you've mentioned pulls you up, makes you look closely at your flying, your decision making, who you are, how and why you habitually do things, etc etc etc etc. If you know you have a problem with situational awareness, you can learn ways to compensate. Ditto for other similar problems.
But some people don't do that. They blame others, or say it was bad luck and could have happened to anyone. Such people DO have problems.
We have no way of knowing which camp your hypothetical pilot falls into. Having accidents/incidents happens. Failing an instructor test is easy to do...maybe even twice. It does appear as though this person isn't the greatest pilot in the history of rotary aviation. But on the knowledge we have, that's all I can honestly deduce.
Who are you anyway? Do you have to decide whether to employ this person? Is it you, and you quite understandably don't want to tell the world? Why the interest?
did fail there instructor test twice due to situational awareness..
But some people don't do that. They blame others, or say it was bad luck and could have happened to anyone. Such people DO have problems.
We have no way of knowing which camp your hypothetical pilot falls into. Having accidents/incidents happens. Failing an instructor test is easy to do...maybe even twice. It does appear as though this person isn't the greatest pilot in the history of rotary aviation. But on the knowledge we have, that's all I can honestly deduce.
Who are you anyway? Do you have to decide whether to employ this person? Is it you, and you quite understandably don't want to tell the world? Why the interest?
Senis Semper Fidelis
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,288
Likes: 0
From: Lancashire U K
I dont know if you have B&Q stores or Wal-Mart or somthing similar where you are, but just pick one at random get yourself down there buy the biggest brush and shovel, and start at the bottom of the pile again, dont give up for that would mean your backbone has a problem, after a lot of sweeping and shovelling and re-learning you just might get somthing worth doing right the next time.
I hope you dont feel this is too hard, but when you cock up you can either run and hide, or............. stand up and fight, if you truly want to fly then the latter is your only way!!!
Peter Russell-Blackburn
Lancashire, UK
I hope you dont feel this is too hard, but when you cock up you can either run and hide, or............. stand up and fight, if you truly want to fly then the latter is your only way!!!
Peter Russell-Blackburn
Lancashire, UK
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
From: SE England
Anyone else get the impression that Mr / Ms Had Enough is wasting your time?
Had Enough:
The result of your very short posts has been some well-considered, helpful, carefully-constructed opinions and advice from some very experienced, dedicated and professional people around the World. You repeatedly fail to answer their very reasonable questions as to your interest regarding this "instructor", appearing more to want to spread playground gossip without the guts to back it up with facts, either about yourself or them.
Stop wasting everybody's time, or learn to take part in a debate rather than simply chucking mud.
Had Enough:
The result of your very short posts has been some well-considered, helpful, carefully-constructed opinions and advice from some very experienced, dedicated and professional people around the World. You repeatedly fail to answer their very reasonable questions as to your interest regarding this "instructor", appearing more to want to spread playground gossip without the guts to back it up with facts, either about yourself or them.
Stop wasting everybody's time, or learn to take part in a debate rather than simply chucking mud.
Nigerian In Law
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,199
Likes: 92
From: The stool at the end of the bar
Not Enough Data !!
DB,
I agree with you to the extent that Mr/Mrs/Ms/Miss had enough hasn't elaborated his/her position/interest in a subject he/she raised. Maybe a bit more information is called for ? Over to you had enough.....
Cheers,
NEO.
I agree with you to the extent that Mr/Mrs/Ms/Miss had enough hasn't elaborated his/her position/interest in a subject he/she raised. Maybe a bit more information is called for ? Over to you had enough.....
Cheers,
NEO.
