Is there a new scam being perpetrated in the USA?
Thread Starter
Is there a new scam being perpetrated in the USA?
I keep hearing unflattering things about a company called Silver State Helicopters in the USA.
Seems Key Bank will loan a qualified student the tuition money for helicopter flight lessons. The student then pays Silver State Helicopters in advance for the training and becomes liable for the loan amount. It is suggested from some I talk to, that the sales pitch by Silver State overstates what one might reasonably construe as being realistic employment opportunities for low time helicopter pilots.
In the past, similar training schemes have folded and left the unfortunate student owing the bank for lessons they will never receive. The student then has no way to recover his advance tuition from the training establishment. It all seems a bit one sided to me....and the student risks losing a lot of money should something like that happens.
Anyone have first hand knowledge of this Silver State Helicopters and is willing to speak for their being a bona fide training establishment?
Seems Key Bank will loan a qualified student the tuition money for helicopter flight lessons. The student then pays Silver State Helicopters in advance for the training and becomes liable for the loan amount. It is suggested from some I talk to, that the sales pitch by Silver State overstates what one might reasonably construe as being realistic employment opportunities for low time helicopter pilots.
In the past, similar training schemes have folded and left the unfortunate student owing the bank for lessons they will never receive. The student then has no way to recover his advance tuition from the training establishment. It all seems a bit one sided to me....and the student risks losing a lot of money should something like that happens.
Anyone have first hand knowledge of this Silver State Helicopters and is willing to speak for their being a bona fide training establishment?
Why would anyone be silly enough to pay all their lessons in advance and expose themselves to the risk? Tax reasons maybe, or some bulk discount?
If I was going to fork over a large wad of cash I'd make sure I had a legally binding agreement in place should they not deliver the goods, just like any other deal.
If I was going to fork over a large wad of cash I'd make sure I had a legally binding agreement in place should they not deliver the goods, just like any other deal.
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sasless
You must be grinning from ear to ear. This Company has been fired at from all sides on the Just Helo forum. lets see if you opened a can of worms here.
I know nothing about the company except that their Robbies fly out to their training area over my house. Some of them return.......
You must be grinning from ear to ear. This Company has been fired at from all sides on the Just Helo forum. lets see if you opened a can of worms here.
I know nothing about the company except that their Robbies fly out to their training area over my house. Some of them return.......
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: W'n. USA--full time RV
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IMHO, a classic scam
I've hung out at two or three SilverState locations, visited 4 others & interviewed for training, while they maintain a reputable front and have a justifiable business plan for themselves and students, the telltale signs are that something funny is up.
Typically SilverState blows into town after buying out the local helicopter school and proceeds to throw a giant hangar party, with several R22's and instructors there as bait. Students sign up in droves. A couple of days later, the instructors and helicopters disappear over the horizon to go salt another school site, the students are left trying to comply with the school's endlessly cumbersome ground training requirements.
Flight instruction eventually takes place, but with too few heli/CFI units, so grumbling amongst students is common. Accordingly, it appears there's no basis for legal action, fraud has not quite occurred--but all that up-front capital investment by the students must make the company's net worth most impressive, with all the schools they're buying up. Great scheme for gathering venture capital!
Can this house of cards survive? Stay tuned, they could own the industry (perhaps eventually buying out RHC as a manufacturing branch!) or they could collapse in flames.
Not my choice of gambles for training!
Typically SilverState blows into town after buying out the local helicopter school and proceeds to throw a giant hangar party, with several R22's and instructors there as bait. Students sign up in droves. A couple of days later, the instructors and helicopters disappear over the horizon to go salt another school site, the students are left trying to comply with the school's endlessly cumbersome ground training requirements.
Flight instruction eventually takes place, but with too few heli/CFI units, so grumbling amongst students is common. Accordingly, it appears there's no basis for legal action, fraud has not quite occurred--but all that up-front capital investment by the students must make the company's net worth most impressive, with all the schools they're buying up. Great scheme for gathering venture capital!
Can this house of cards survive? Stay tuned, they could own the industry (perhaps eventually buying out RHC as a manufacturing branch!) or they could collapse in flames.
Not my choice of gambles for training!
Thread Starter
March 10, 2003
Show Them The Money, Students Demand
By Russ Niles
Newswriter
Large Training School Folds...
Students at a well-known flying school in Florida are plotting their next move after the establishment suddenly ceased operations last month. According to students, Airline Training Academy staff were assembled the evening of Feb. 27 and told the school was closing. Feb. 28 found some portion of 150 active students and about the same number of inactive students asking grim-faced instructors why they were packing their desks -- and where their money is. Student Steve McCabe told AVweb he's owed at least $15,000 worth of prepaid training. The students have launched legal action and a creatively named Web site to keep each other apprised of developments. AVweb tried to contact ATA but its Web site is not active and we were unable to find working phone numbers for the company or its principals. McCabe said he and his fellow students aren't having much luck tracking them down, either. "Students have never been officially notified of the school's closure," he said. McCabe said. He said students showed up for training the next day and found and office staff cleaning out their desks and offices. All the school's aircraft had prop locks on them, McCabe said. He said calls to ATA's lawyer of record, Robert White, have also gone unanswered.
...Students Left Hanging
In addition to his $15,000 still held by the school, McCabe said he's looking at some $5,000 more to complete the multi-IFR rating he was working on. Still, McCabe says his isn't the worst tale and that he met three young people from California who arrived at the school Friday -- each had arranged bank loans of more than $50,000 to attend. A civil suit, representing 100 students, alleges, among other things, that ATA kept taking new students until it closed and the owners bought expensive cars "and otherwise engaged in a lifestyle that would belie any financial distress or difficulty." The early efforts may already be paying off. According to the Web site, officials of one Cleveland bank are trying to retrieve unexpended loan funds from ATA so they can be used at other schools. According to a report in the Orlando Sentinel, however, the Key Bank isn't having any more luck reaching company officials. "There's nobody around. There's nobody to talk to," a bank official told the Sentinel. The students are also looking into criminal proceedings against ATA. According to the student's Web site, ATA has not filed for bankruptcy.
Key Bank....why does that ring a bell?
Show Them The Money, Students Demand
By Russ Niles
Newswriter
Large Training School Folds...
Students at a well-known flying school in Florida are plotting their next move after the establishment suddenly ceased operations last month. According to students, Airline Training Academy staff were assembled the evening of Feb. 27 and told the school was closing. Feb. 28 found some portion of 150 active students and about the same number of inactive students asking grim-faced instructors why they were packing their desks -- and where their money is. Student Steve McCabe told AVweb he's owed at least $15,000 worth of prepaid training. The students have launched legal action and a creatively named Web site to keep each other apprised of developments. AVweb tried to contact ATA but its Web site is not active and we were unable to find working phone numbers for the company or its principals. McCabe said he and his fellow students aren't having much luck tracking them down, either. "Students have never been officially notified of the school's closure," he said. McCabe said. He said students showed up for training the next day and found and office staff cleaning out their desks and offices. All the school's aircraft had prop locks on them, McCabe said. He said calls to ATA's lawyer of record, Robert White, have also gone unanswered.
...Students Left Hanging
In addition to his $15,000 still held by the school, McCabe said he's looking at some $5,000 more to complete the multi-IFR rating he was working on. Still, McCabe says his isn't the worst tale and that he met three young people from California who arrived at the school Friday -- each had arranged bank loans of more than $50,000 to attend. A civil suit, representing 100 students, alleges, among other things, that ATA kept taking new students until it closed and the owners bought expensive cars "and otherwise engaged in a lifestyle that would belie any financial distress or difficulty." The early efforts may already be paying off. According to the Web site, officials of one Cleveland bank are trying to retrieve unexpended loan funds from ATA so they can be used at other schools. According to a report in the Orlando Sentinel, however, the Key Bank isn't having any more luck reaching company officials. "There's nobody around. There's nobody to talk to," a bank official told the Sentinel. The students are also looking into criminal proceedings against ATA. According to the student's Web site, ATA has not filed for bankruptcy.
Key Bank....why does that ring a bell?
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If anyone gives out a large upfront sum for training or anything, I think they should look up the 419 thread on the Campfire forum. The Nigerians invented the upfront money letters.
There are no guarantees in life, but taking on a huge debt in the hopes that this business will still be around tomorrow, is maximum stupid. Pay as you go or find another school.
There are no guarantees in life, but taking on a huge debt in the hopes that this business will still be around tomorrow, is maximum stupid. Pay as you go or find another school.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Scotland
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I trained in Canada 1988 with Ranger Helicopters one of the many reasons I chose them was for thier very sensible policy of payment, this was a joint account that my funds were deposited into and could only be withdrawn by two signatures , mine and the school representative's. This was reasuring in so much as at the end of each weeks flying, I signed for the amount corresponding to the flying entered into my logbook that week.
When CHC took over the School one week after starting with them I know that my money was safe and secure.
I sugest that this system gives you the reasurance that if the company that you have chosen goes belly up then your money should be secure and you will eventually get back all that is owed.
If a company has nothing but the best of intentions then this kind of arrangement gives both parties piece of mind that the money is available and any disputed items are delt with with some immediacy rather than left to accumulate.
Good luck to all those that have been ripped off, I hope that you get your justice.
When CHC took over the School one week after starting with them I know that my money was safe and secure.
I sugest that this system gives you the reasurance that if the company that you have chosen goes belly up then your money should be secure and you will eventually get back all that is owed.
If a company has nothing but the best of intentions then this kind of arrangement gives both parties piece of mind that the money is available and any disputed items are delt with with some immediacy rather than left to accumulate.
Good luck to all those that have been ripped off, I hope that you get your justice.
