How Fast Can You Fly Backward? Or Why Helicopter Pilots are Superior
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Hi All,
I often wonder what Fixed Wing Pilots would do if they really had to use their "Hands and Feet" I guess they would have to spit out the gum!
OldPinger (ASW?) My hat is off to you for being sooooo politically correct with your update on the old phrase!
Cheers,
OffshoreIgor
I often wonder what Fixed Wing Pilots would do if they really had to use their "Hands and Feet" I guess they would have to spit out the gum!
OldPinger (ASW?) My hat is off to you for being sooooo politically correct with your update on the old phrase!
Cheers,
OffshoreIgor
Join Date: Sep 2002
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helicopter pilots are far superior...
how plank flyers even dare to wear wings is beyond me, i took a couple of hours in a C172 for fun and to practice some instrument approaches. Man they are so easy, they just kind of trundle along all on their own, i guess they have to, as the pilot can see next to naf all, what with all the dash-board and wing in the way.
The landings are no problem, although i will say the first was a little hard but the rest were smooth as you like...
We had to take along the CFIs dog, i wasn't sure why but every time he touched a control it gave him a good bite...
how plank flyers even dare to wear wings is beyond me, i took a couple of hours in a C172 for fun and to practice some instrument approaches. Man they are so easy, they just kind of trundle along all on their own, i guess they have to, as the pilot can see next to naf all, what with all the dash-board and wing in the way.
The landings are no problem, although i will say the first was a little hard but the rest were smooth as you like...
We had to take along the CFIs dog, i wasn't sure why but every time he touched a control it gave him a good bite...
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kings Caple, Ross-on-Wye.orPiccots End. Hertfordshire
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Rotary Reverse
Helicopter rear speed limits.
Not sure if any factual info is wanted on the subject, but as its post Christmas and I'm full of mince pies ... can I add some actual numbers to the discussion.
The PFM's stopped quoting actual 'crosswind/rearward' limits a while ago, (probably due to an accident below the quoted numbers and a legal claim) so these days they simply declare that the machine in question has been 'demonstrated at ....? (usually circa 17 knots)
Having looked into the situation we all appreciate the rearward 'disc flapping' limit where the cyclic reaches the rearward limiting stops and further airspeed increase simply tucks the nose down with no further aft control movement available to correct.
This assumes the pilot retains an approximate horizontal 'flapped back' disc attitude with translational/then transitional airflow acting conventionally. I've found in my display routine, that a firmer aft movement of cyclic before translational effect kicks in results in a pronounced change of disc attitude (nose well up and T/R down) to the point where the further transitional flow is replaced by an 'induced' airflow so that the disc no longer 'flaps.' In this attitude perhaps 90% of the flow is now through the disc and the actual limit is only the available collective (power) and speed at which the drag equals the thrust. Anti torque pedal control is significantly INCREASED !! We've all seen the Antarctic Chinook's attitude as it pulls through the ice !!
I know that Charlie Zimmerman and Herman Fuchs had 'rearward reading' ASI's on their B105's for their 1986 Championship routines and I'd quite like one for the Enstrom/Hughes.
The best I have is a GPS reading and subtract the known wind but I have seen a 75knot indication along the crowd line downwind. As 2005 will be my last display year, I'm hoping some younger 'guns' will take up the display scene soon and no doubt investigate the numbers further.
Good wishes to all ppruners for 2005.
Not sure if any factual info is wanted on the subject, but as its post Christmas and I'm full of mince pies ... can I add some actual numbers to the discussion.
The PFM's stopped quoting actual 'crosswind/rearward' limits a while ago, (probably due to an accident below the quoted numbers and a legal claim) so these days they simply declare that the machine in question has been 'demonstrated at ....? (usually circa 17 knots)
Having looked into the situation we all appreciate the rearward 'disc flapping' limit where the cyclic reaches the rearward limiting stops and further airspeed increase simply tucks the nose down with no further aft control movement available to correct.
This assumes the pilot retains an approximate horizontal 'flapped back' disc attitude with translational/then transitional airflow acting conventionally. I've found in my display routine, that a firmer aft movement of cyclic before translational effect kicks in results in a pronounced change of disc attitude (nose well up and T/R down) to the point where the further transitional flow is replaced by an 'induced' airflow so that the disc no longer 'flaps.' In this attitude perhaps 90% of the flow is now through the disc and the actual limit is only the available collective (power) and speed at which the drag equals the thrust. Anti torque pedal control is significantly INCREASED !! We've all seen the Antarctic Chinook's attitude as it pulls through the ice !!
I know that Charlie Zimmerman and Herman Fuchs had 'rearward reading' ASI's on their B105's for their 1986 Championship routines and I'd quite like one for the Enstrom/Hughes.
The best I have is a GPS reading and subtract the known wind but I have seen a 75knot indication along the crowd line downwind. As 2005 will be my last display year, I'm hoping some younger 'guns' will take up the display scene soon and no doubt investigate the numbers further.
Good wishes to all ppruners for 2005.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kings Caple, Ross-on-Wye.orPiccots End. Hertfordshire
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Hi Scout ....
Don't have much booked for 2005 other than the Blenheim Palace event in August, Glenn's Kemble Heli Show and of course the Shoreham RAFA. A few other shows usually pop up though, possibly Rougham at Bury St Edmunds. The North Weald event isn't happening this year.
If there is to be a 'freestyle' at the heli champs in August, I will try to get an entry.
Jeremy is working on a display DVD at present with several recent displays and an 'all interior' section of the 2004 RAFA routine. We are hoping it might be good enough to sell for around ten quid plus ..... with all the proceeds going to my helicopter scholarship for youngsters.
The scholarship committee have short listed three youngsters for the 2005 scholarship and I'm hoping Ian MacGregor at Fast will agree to give them an 'aptitude' test in February to select the winner.
Good flying everyone and God bless all the Tsunami heli fliers.
Don't have much booked for 2005 other than the Blenheim Palace event in August, Glenn's Kemble Heli Show and of course the Shoreham RAFA. A few other shows usually pop up though, possibly Rougham at Bury St Edmunds. The North Weald event isn't happening this year.
If there is to be a 'freestyle' at the heli champs in August, I will try to get an entry.
Jeremy is working on a display DVD at present with several recent displays and an 'all interior' section of the 2004 RAFA routine. We are hoping it might be good enough to sell for around ten quid plus ..... with all the proceeds going to my helicopter scholarship for youngsters.
The scholarship committee have short listed three youngsters for the 2005 scholarship and I'm hoping Ian MacGregor at Fast will agree to give them an 'aptitude' test in February to select the winner.
Good flying everyone and God bless all the Tsunami heli fliers.
I did fly most of an ILS in rearward flight.... on a GCA which coincided with the ILS to the runway at Malpensa International located not far from the Agusta factory.
Doing repeated circuits in a Chinook with Libyan students....doing one ILS after another...got bored finally...started doing GCA's ....one after another...got further bored....bad situation for a helicopter pilot. Passed the outer marker...went a bit further....doing a picture perfect GCA (remember the ILS was identical to the GCA) and when....like a vision...it appeared to me...that the GCA controller was as bored as I was....and as clear as could be....it dawned upon me the exact way to cure that problem. At about 800 feet AGL....and about one NM out from the runway , I gradually decelerated the aircraft to a hover....all the time getting that repetitive on-course....on glide slope call from Luigi. Then....I began to hover rearwards at an accelerating pace.....maintaining course and glideslope.....until almost at 60 knots or so.....
The patter from the GCA controller kinda broke down for a second...then there was a very long pause....and I heard in a very awake Italian voice...."Mama Mia! Provo 65...you are a-going a-backwards!"
Doing repeated circuits in a Chinook with Libyan students....doing one ILS after another...got bored finally...started doing GCA's ....one after another...got further bored....bad situation for a helicopter pilot. Passed the outer marker...went a bit further....doing a picture perfect GCA (remember the ILS was identical to the GCA) and when....like a vision...it appeared to me...that the GCA controller was as bored as I was....and as clear as could be....it dawned upon me the exact way to cure that problem. At about 800 feet AGL....and about one NM out from the runway , I gradually decelerated the aircraft to a hover....all the time getting that repetitive on-course....on glide slope call from Luigi. Then....I began to hover rearwards at an accelerating pace.....maintaining course and glideslope.....until almost at 60 knots or so.....
The patter from the GCA controller kinda broke down for a second...then there was a very long pause....and I heard in a very awake Italian voice...."Mama Mia! Provo 65...you are a-going a-backwards!"
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Sorry folks but happen to believe that this thread is utter pap filled drivellous sh*te. Much as I love flying helicopters for a living and much pride as I have in the work that I do (SAR), I do not feel the need to knock or look down on anyone else to be happy with myself or my skills. Frankly the biggest wart on this professions ar*e is the professional snobbery and arrogance of its insecure "professionals". Couldnt give a f**k who considers themselves to be better or the best... it matters zilch!!!
Remember... most power is weakness dressed up as strength. If someone feels to need to tell you that they have done this that or the other, or flown x y or z in order to create the image of themselves that they want you to have, then you have to ask why?????
The vast majority of "average" or ordinary or even cr*p pilots manage just fine so save your superiority complexes for something meaningful you have done!
Remember... most power is weakness dressed up as strength. If someone feels to need to tell you that they have done this that or the other, or flown x y or z in order to create the image of themselves that they want you to have, then you have to ask why?????
The vast majority of "average" or ordinary or even cr*p pilots manage just fine so save your superiority complexes for something meaningful you have done!
Uncalled for, Decks!
It's just a bit of fun, after all. As a plank flyer working with rotorheads I expect a bit of banter. The biggest pain of all is people who take themselves too seriously. In this case, that's you, not the earlier contributors!
It's just a bit of fun, after all. As a plank flyer working with rotorheads I expect a bit of banter. The biggest pain of all is people who take themselves too seriously. In this case, that's you, not the earlier contributors!
