It's only a rumour.....
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 201
Likes: 4
From: Back of Bourke
It's only a rumour.....
News from aquaintances across the Pacific;
The Queensland Goverment have contracted an NZ owned company to provide two B3 Squirrels with belly tanks for fire fighting. No tender called (except to said company), local heavy lift/fire fighting helicopter company in Brisbane very sad. Watch this space
The last BK117-C2 is due for imminent delivery to a Western Australian owner, currently has a B407. Money in pearls, m'lad!
Interview with CASA without tea and biscuits for Melbourne charity CEO and CP
Any more from across the Atlantic?
The Queensland Goverment have contracted an NZ owned company to provide two B3 Squirrels with belly tanks for fire fighting. No tender called (except to said company), local heavy lift/fire fighting helicopter company in Brisbane very sad. Watch this space
The last BK117-C2 is due for imminent delivery to a Western Australian owner, currently has a B407. Money in pearls, m'lad!
Interview with CASA without tea and biscuits for Melbourne charity CEO and CP
Any more from across the Atlantic?
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
From: Here,there &everywhere
Now why
would they do that if there are so many aircraft in the area with fire fighting capabilities??
Does the Queensland Goverment not support Queensland Companies??
I know of a few operators that are probably furious about this
PS. lets see if the Australian, The Courier Mail etc. can make something out of this
would they do that if there are so many aircraft in the area with fire fighting capabilities??Does the Queensland Goverment not support Queensland Companies??
I know of a few operators that are probably furious about this
PS. lets see if the Australian, The Courier Mail etc. can make something out of this
Joined: Aug 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 4,411
Likes: 83
From: Gold Coast, Australia
Dynamic:
I'd imagine J McD wouldn't be too chuffed
Someone mentioned to me recently that the Queensland constitution has a requirement for preference to be given to Qld companies, but that would probably be against the Commonwealth Constitution (free trade across State borders, etc).
Then again, what difference would that make!
I'd imagine J McD wouldn't be too chuffed
Someone mentioned to me recently that the Queensland constitution has a requirement for preference to be given to Qld companies, but that would probably be against the Commonwealth Constitution (free trade across State borders, etc).Then again, what difference would that make!
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
From: Around
Hell... maybe Kiwis just do it cheaper and as professionally.
Good to see it goes both ways... theres plenty of examples of Australian companies getting special treatment on the other side of the ditch.
Just a thought... especially as we are all meant to be working hard on dumping the ridiculous protectionsim that has shagged the industry in the first place.
If you want to beat Kiwi companies and of course competition is a good thing... then work harder. I doubt the Kiwi companies have any more margin than the locals.
Good to see it goes both ways... theres plenty of examples of Australian companies getting special treatment on the other side of the ditch.
Just a thought... especially as we are all meant to be working hard on dumping the ridiculous protectionsim that has shagged the industry in the first place.
If you want to beat Kiwi companies and of course competition is a good thing... then work harder. I doubt the Kiwi companies have any more margin than the locals.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 132
Likes: 6
From: N/A
Kwikenz, I can't see how another company has been beaten by price or professionalism (which is easily debatable, ask any Aussie pilot) when it looks like the process of calling for a tender didn't reach everyone. Perhaps J McD was out working while this NZ company was sitting around like seagulls, begging for some chips.
You wouldn't happen to work for this company would you Kwiknz?
Just stirring the pot. :-P
You wouldn't happen to work for this company would you Kwiknz?
Just stirring the pot. :-P
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 563
Likes: 1
From: queensland australia
the two machines (one nz registered) are sitting at archerfield airport. they were ferried from western australia (80 hour round trip for two).
they are supposed to lift 1100 litres in the belly tanks.
they will exceed max gross if you do the sums with an average pilot and a bit of fuel.
they are supposed to lift 1100 litres in the belly tanks.
they will exceed max gross if you do the sums with an average pilot and a bit of fuel.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
From: Here,there &everywhere
Sir HC,
You hit the nail on the head. Why have none of the local operaters seen any kind of tender with regards to this.
I have heard that most of them are on a list of aproved operators, but none of them claim to have seen any kind of tender for a contract.
As for prices-I've price AS 350s in NZ aswell as in Brisbane.
Believe me-the Kiwis are not cheaper.
You hit the nail on the head. Why have none of the local operaters seen any kind of tender with regards to this.
I have heard that most of them are on a list of aproved operators, but none of them claim to have seen any kind of tender for a contract.
As for prices-I've price AS 350s in NZ aswell as in Brisbane.
Believe me-the Kiwis are not cheaper.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
From: Where Men Are Men And Sheep Run Scared
If they were ferried from Western Australia then you will find they are no doubt Helicopters Australia machines, prob their two B3s that they have with Simplex tanks underneath. Even though their parent company is Helicopters NZ they are a wholy owned subsidiary and a legitimate Australian company.
If they need helos then additional are sent over from NZ but apart from that they are run as an Aussie company.
I know Johnny Mac has the 205s and Soloys and then the heavier 214s but I dont think he has anything in the B3 size that they could have used. Yes there are other AS350s around BNE but from what I am aware there are no B3s and not sure but I dont think there are any B2s either.
If they need helos then additional are sent over from NZ but apart from that they are run as an Aussie company.
I know Johnny Mac has the 205s and Soloys and then the heavier 214s but I dont think he has anything in the B3 size that they could have used. Yes there are other AS350s around BNE but from what I am aware there are no B3s and not sure but I dont think there are any B2s either.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
From: Around
Sir HC... your not so veiled dig at Kiwi pilots is of course entirely subjective... I think you'd find a similarly disparaing opinion of Aussies over here... of course as a rule you lot get paid more for less work so they arent often seen in our neck of the woods.
I just think its mad that the issue seems to be more of a kiwi bash than the fact that the contract was not secured through due process. Surely weve got bigger fish to fry than squabbling across the ditch.
Stirring the pot right back at ya... oh and no I dont work for the compnay in question.
FLy safe
I just think its mad that the issue seems to be more of a kiwi bash than the fact that the contract was not secured through due process. Surely weve got bigger fish to fry than squabbling across the ditch.
Stirring the pot right back at ya... oh and no I dont work for the compnay in question.
FLy safe
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
From: TI
1100 litres?????
AS350B3 EEW 1232kg (High Gear NVFR)
add WSPS FM Coms etc 25kg = 1257kg
add Simplex kit 181kg = 1438kg
add Pilot (with junk) 100kg = 1538 kg
MTOW (OGE) SL ISA +15C = 2760kg
2760-1538 = 1222kg
1100 litres water = 1100kg leaving 122kg for fuel or about 45-50 mins endurance.
Not as bad as you think GG. You wouldn't put a smaller tank on - no point.
The "parent" of this company is no stranger to helicopters being one of the oldest around, 1955 from memory. No I don't work for them either.
"The last BK 117 C2"???? The last one they made or the last one in the country? Didn't know there was one prior. BK 117 C2 = EC145. They were still making them a week ago when I was at the factory!
add WSPS FM Coms etc 25kg = 1257kg
add Simplex kit 181kg = 1438kg
add Pilot (with junk) 100kg = 1538 kg
MTOW (OGE) SL ISA +15C = 2760kg
2760-1538 = 1222kg
1100 litres water = 1100kg leaving 122kg for fuel or about 45-50 mins endurance.
Not as bad as you think GG. You wouldn't put a smaller tank on - no point.
The "parent" of this company is no stranger to helicopters being one of the oldest around, 1955 from memory. No I don't work for them either.
"The last BK 117 C2"???? The last one they made or the last one in the country? Didn't know there was one prior. BK 117 C2 = EC145. They were still making them a week ago when I was at the factory!
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 132
Likes: 6
From: N/A
Kwikenz, it wasnt meant to be a dig at the Kiwis. I know that I and many other Australians respect you guys, purely for the fact that you can put up with those annoying accents the rest of you have ;-)
Serisously though, Perhaps Pheonix is right, maybe no-one else had the type of gear that they were looking for. But I have heard that McD's did not know about the Tender. Is there anyone out there that can confirm there was an ad in The Australian? I am just hoping that the process was a fair one. As long as that's the case, we shant be worried shall we?
After all, Australians arent known for the 'Tall Poppy Syndrome' are they???
Serisously though, Perhaps Pheonix is right, maybe no-one else had the type of gear that they were looking for. But I have heard that McD's did not know about the Tender. Is there anyone out there that can confirm there was an ad in The Australian? I am just hoping that the process was a fair one. As long as that's the case, we shant be worried shall we?
After all, Australians arent known for the 'Tall Poppy Syndrome' are they???
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
From: Where Men Are Men And Sheep Run Scared
I think you will find they are primarily an executive charter company and would doubt they would want to spend the $60K on a belly tank to have it sitting around most of the season. A lot of the government agencies are now requiring tanks only especially in the urban interface because of the risk of a wayward bucket ending up through someones roof. I know RFS are looking hard at it and NRE is the same.
I see the B3 made it to the cover of the Gold Coast Bully on the weekend after fighting a fire near Nerang, looks like its already earning its keep.
Bet Scott Menzies isnt happy having it right in his back yard.
I see the B3 made it to the cover of the Gold Coast Bully on the weekend after fighting a fire near Nerang, looks like its already earning its keep.
Bet Scott Menzies isnt happy having it right in his back yard.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: OZZ
Phoenix Rising,
Well actualy we do lifting with our B2 here in SE Queensland.There is another B2 and a B3 around, but they do mostly private stuff.
Can't say that we're overly happy with the contract that was given out without the tender being made public, but then you're right-we don't have a belly tank
We can not fly over populas areas.
We can not pick up 1100ltrs
However-our 700ltr bucket does have a quicker turnaround time than the belly tank
Just had to stir the pot
Well actualy we do lifting with our B2 here in SE Queensland.There is another B2 and a B3 around, but they do mostly private stuff.
Can't say that we're overly happy with the contract that was given out without the tender being made public, but then you're right-we don't have a belly tank
We can not fly over populas areas.
We can not pick up 1100ltrs
However-our 700ltr bucket does have a quicker turnaround time than the belly tank
Just had to stir the pot
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
From: Victoria
Catseye,
I might suggest you have your powder dry before you shoot off your uninformed mouth.
This was obviously a back hander at me....my departure has nothing to do with the meeting CASA had with this company. In fact, CASA has spoken with the last few pilots to have worked for this company, due to several departures, or impending departures, including the pilot who replaced me!! The fact that they felt compelled to speak to them has NOTHING to do with me. Should you wish to further allude that I instigated this, I will take the matter to the next level.
I don't think my work ethic or ability was ever questioned whilst I was there...you obviously have a bug up your a**e about me and feel the need to hide behind this forum to vent it.
You gutless twit!!!
I might suggest you have your powder dry before you shoot off your uninformed mouth.
This was obviously a back hander at me....my departure has nothing to do with the meeting CASA had with this company. In fact, CASA has spoken with the last few pilots to have worked for this company, due to several departures, or impending departures, including the pilot who replaced me!! The fact that they felt compelled to speak to them has NOTHING to do with me. Should you wish to further allude that I instigated this, I will take the matter to the next level.
I don't think my work ethic or ability was ever questioned whilst I was there...you obviously have a bug up your a**e about me and feel the need to hide behind this forum to vent it.
You gutless twit!!!
Last edited by Too Cloudy; 12th November 2004 at 18:36.
Joined: Aug 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 4,411
Likes: 83
From: Gold Coast, Australia
The "first" BK117-C2 aka EC145 will be delivered early 2005, to True North, IIRC a Broome based operation. Type certified in Australia as BK117-C2, to keep it simple, but it's all the same aircraft. Nice spare $US6 mil's worth 
looks a lovely piece of kit
TMY,
We have CASA permission for flying over built up areas with fire buckets, just apply for it! No doubt that a bucket out performs most tanks on turn round times, and the variable fill/multi drop capability of the Slingtank makes up for most performance differences
looks a lovely piece of kit TMY,
We have CASA permission for flying over built up areas with fire buckets, just apply for it! No doubt that a bucket out performs most tanks on turn round times, and the variable fill/multi drop capability of the Slingtank makes up for most performance differences
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: 45 South
Giovanni
When you quote AS350B-3 EEW of 1232Kgs (High skids, NVFR) is that figure from a machine you know or the EADS brochure?
Any B-3 I have flown weighs in at closer to 1300kgs minimum in this configuration.
As for flying in the heat/turbulence of a fire at 2800kgs all day - I think they're dreaming about that too!
When you quote AS350B-3 EEW of 1232Kgs (High skids, NVFR) is that figure from a machine you know or the EADS brochure?
Any B-3 I have flown weighs in at closer to 1300kgs minimum in this configuration.
As for flying in the heat/turbulence of a fire at 2800kgs all day - I think they're dreaming about that too!
