EC120
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SA
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The ec120 in my opinion should not even be certified, far better aircraft available for that kind of money with alot more power!
Not cheap either, carefull of overtemp on start as well! Every 120 I have seen with more than 500hrs has already been overtemped on start.
Not cheap either, carefull of overtemp on start as well! Every 120 I have seen with more than 500hrs has already been overtemped on start.
Isn“t the VEMD just the actual display? If I remember correctly it stands for something like Vehicule Multi Display or something close to it in French.
So the FCU (Fuel control unit) and the VEMD are two different things but from what I have heard are both probably just as outrageously overprized by EC.
So the FCU (Fuel control unit) and the VEMD are two different things but from what I have heard are both probably just as outrageously overprized by EC.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
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Rotornut
No, I really did mean the fuel control units.
We also had the bottom screen go on the VEMD (Vehicle & Engine Management Display) but that was replaced under warranty.
Battery from EC was £1100 more than from an aviation battery supply company!!
No, I really did mean the fuel control units.
We also had the bottom screen go on the VEMD (Vehicle & Engine Management Display) but that was replaced under warranty.
Battery from EC was £1100 more than from an aviation battery supply company!!
Cool as a moosp
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Mostly Hong Kong
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MGB Corrosion
On our EC120, on inspection, the engineers discovered corrosion on the main rotor gearbox surface. It is located in direct line with the front air intake, and started at the junction of the upper and lower sections of the MGB. It covers about three centimetres of the joint as seen from the outside.
EC have split the gearbox and say that it has gone too far to blend out, and are requiring an exchange unit, at 64,000 euro. Ouch.
Anyone had any experience of this gearbox corroding? It seems to be a magnesium type alloy and flakes away in a white crisp dust like an oxide.
Any advice or similar experiences would be welcome.
On our EC120, on inspection, the engineers discovered corrosion on the main rotor gearbox surface. It is located in direct line with the front air intake, and started at the junction of the upper and lower sections of the MGB. It covers about three centimetres of the joint as seen from the outside.
EC have split the gearbox and say that it has gone too far to blend out, and are requiring an exchange unit, at 64,000 euro. Ouch.
Anyone had any experience of this gearbox corroding? It seems to be a magnesium type alloy and flakes away in a white crisp dust like an oxide.
Any advice or similar experiences would be welcome.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
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FAA AD for FCUs on Turbomeca Arrius 2F - applicable to EC120
The FAA is adopting a new AD for Turbomeca Arrius 2F turboshaft engines. The AD requires removing from service certain serial number FCUs or replacing the constant delta pressure diaphragm in those FCUs.
The AD results from a report of an accident in July 2005 involving a Eurocopter EC120B helicopter. The AD is issued to prevent an uncommanded engine in-flight shutdown on a single-engine helicopter, resulting in a forced autorotation landing or an accident.
Link
The AD results from a report of an accident in July 2005 involving a Eurocopter EC120B helicopter. The AD is issued to prevent an uncommanded engine in-flight shutdown on a single-engine helicopter, resulting in a forced autorotation landing or an accident.
Link
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Germany
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Colibri SAS
Hello,
I am an aeronautical engineer working on a simulation project. I am trying to learn about the systems on the EC Colibri. My question is what kind of stability Augmentation and flight assistance systems are available on the Colibri ? I am looking for a list of capability like altitude hold, landing assistance etc.
I would appreciate any kind of info.
Thanks a lot.
I am an aeronautical engineer working on a simulation project. I am trying to learn about the systems on the EC Colibri. My question is what kind of stability Augmentation and flight assistance systems are available on the Colibri ? I am looking for a list of capability like altitude hold, landing assistance etc.
I would appreciate any kind of info.
Thanks a lot.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Southern California
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Flight Assistance Systems
The EC120B has a wonderful stability control unit which has integrated altitude hold, auto hover and auto land. It also provides control for all the systems on the EC120. It is called a pilot. All kidding aside, there is nothing in the electronics that will do anything other than provide information to the pilot. The 120 is an entry level turbine helicopter and does not have the complex, expensive control systems that larger helicopters provide.
Last edited by EAGLE31; 6th Oct 2005 at 00:46.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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bell 206/ec120?
i am looking at both a 206 and the ec120 to buy for a business man to travel around ireland. Please express pros and cons for comparisson and your final choice. $1 mil budget. thanks.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Australia
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For 1 mil Aus dollars you could get two pretty good second hand Jetrangers-not to sure about the price of a used ec-120- would imagine though a little bit more.
To compare them operationally-if you looked up the word reliable in the dictionary you would find a photo of a jetranger-they just keep going. Ofcousre you'll always find the knockers but over a ten year period we operated up to 4 206's and other than the routine maintenance I can remember a couple of t/r chip lights, 1 eng chip and a couple of gauge failures.And i'm talking about 600-800 hrs per year per machine. The other consideration is support and parts....do your homework there....again I don't know what eurocopter/Bell have in Ireland.
I was fortunate to operate a EC-120 on trial for around 3 months and in that time had great feedback from pilots and passengers. Someone with a lot more time on the ec would give you a better appreciation however I loved flying the machine and the pax loved it. Bigger windows and a lot more comfortable.If your planning to have a full ship expect a lot of negative comments about the back middle seat in the jetranger...it's a F#$%^. Every day people would complain about having to sit there. We called it the TFC,(Thanks for coming) seat. Atleast in the EC everyone gets a great seat and no arguements.
The luggage compartment on the ec is little more generous than the jetranger however as all 206 drivers know it's amazing what you can fit in a jetranger boot.
Thats my 3 cents worth-to answer your question if it's just you and/or your pilot criusing around Ireland with regards to price take the jetranger option-maybe a few ec operators could add some pointers to even the debate.......Have you considered a R44?
SMO
To compare them operationally-if you looked up the word reliable in the dictionary you would find a photo of a jetranger-they just keep going. Ofcousre you'll always find the knockers but over a ten year period we operated up to 4 206's and other than the routine maintenance I can remember a couple of t/r chip lights, 1 eng chip and a couple of gauge failures.And i'm talking about 600-800 hrs per year per machine. The other consideration is support and parts....do your homework there....again I don't know what eurocopter/Bell have in Ireland.
I was fortunate to operate a EC-120 on trial for around 3 months and in that time had great feedback from pilots and passengers. Someone with a lot more time on the ec would give you a better appreciation however I loved flying the machine and the pax loved it. Bigger windows and a lot more comfortable.If your planning to have a full ship expect a lot of negative comments about the back middle seat in the jetranger...it's a F#$%^. Every day people would complain about having to sit there. We called it the TFC,(Thanks for coming) seat. Atleast in the EC everyone gets a great seat and no arguements.
The luggage compartment on the ec is little more generous than the jetranger however as all 206 drivers know it's amazing what you can fit in a jetranger boot.
Thats my 3 cents worth-to answer your question if it's just you and/or your pilot criusing around Ireland with regards to price take the jetranger option-maybe a few ec operators could add some pointers to even the debate.......Have you considered a R44?
SMO
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South West
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206 vs 120
This could start quite a debate!!
Would probably go for 206 myself, however do agree that the 120 has better alround visibility for the pax however have heard some stories of problems with the 120 i.e. c of g - this may have been corrected now.
Otherwise both lovely machines.
Would probably go for 206 myself, however do agree that the 120 has better alround visibility for the pax however have heard some stories of problems with the 120 i.e. c of g - this may have been corrected now.
Otherwise both lovely machines.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Monterrey Mexico
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206 no doubt.
i fown both of them, both as a pass and as a pilot, 206 its a work horse. True ec is more confortable for the pass, but 206 its so reliable and its so a noble machine and a joy to fly. Its slower though but its a very safe 'the safest single engine aircraft in the world' and it keeps its record for a long time. Maintainance its not hard and well documented, your mechanic can do a lot more to it than on the EC to fix it on the field.
More technology on the EC, quiter for sure, but the penalty for it its power. Although jet rangers are not a loader heli, it can carry more weight and be more forgiving in altitude and hot wx.
Its just my POV.
I flown both of them to see what i would buy, and got a 206. Ohh, operation cost is also lower. (at least in mx)
More technology on the EC, quiter for sure, but the penalty for it its power. Although jet rangers are not a loader heli, it can carry more weight and be more forgiving in altitude and hot wx.
Its just my POV.
I flown both of them to see what i would buy, and got a 206. Ohh, operation cost is also lower. (at least in mx)
It's not just about operating costs etc, is it.
We are living in the 21st century now and things such as duty of care/risk assessments etc have to be considered.
I would seriously also look at crashworthiness issues.
The 206 has that woefully inferior tail rotor authority issue hanging over it too.
On a separate note: bear in mind the spares and servicing scene.
A helo sat on the deck waiting 4 days for a replacement part for instance, is just scrap metal
We are living in the 21st century now and things such as duty of care/risk assessments etc have to be considered.
I would seriously also look at crashworthiness issues.
The 206 has that woefully inferior tail rotor authority issue hanging over it too.
On a separate note: bear in mind the spares and servicing scene.
A helo sat on the deck waiting 4 days for a replacement part for instance, is just scrap metal
Join Date: Oct 2005
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A few other things to consider:
Autorotation - ever seen an EC120 auto from about 10-15' AGL? Talk about slamming you into the ground! You'll find the 206 offers much more margin than the EC120 due to the nature of the rotor system. Much more inertia in the 206.
Useful Load - Don't get hung up in EC telling you that the 120 has a greater AUW. Once you load it with the necessary equipment and fuel to fly it away, you'll have more UL in a JetRanger with the same equipment. This is especially easy to see when comparing Bell and EC's HOGE and HIGE charts from their technical specs. You'll find a tight race, but I suspect EC would tell you differently.
Having flown in both, I would not take an EC120 above 110-kts. It seemed like everything was about to shake loose in the cabin.
I'd take the JetRanger.
Autorotation - ever seen an EC120 auto from about 10-15' AGL? Talk about slamming you into the ground! You'll find the 206 offers much more margin than the EC120 due to the nature of the rotor system. Much more inertia in the 206.
Useful Load - Don't get hung up in EC telling you that the 120 has a greater AUW. Once you load it with the necessary equipment and fuel to fly it away, you'll have more UL in a JetRanger with the same equipment. This is especially easy to see when comparing Bell and EC's HOGE and HIGE charts from their technical specs. You'll find a tight race, but I suspect EC would tell you differently.
Having flown in both, I would not take an EC120 above 110-kts. It seemed like everything was about to shake loose in the cabin.
I'd take the JetRanger.
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Thomas Coupling wrote:
"The 206 has that woefully inferior tail rotor authority issue hanging over it too."
Thomas...in my limited experience in helicopters to date which includes 1000+ hours in jetrangers ive never had any problem with tail rotor authority..and ive done most hovering ops that require alot of pedal....treat it right and think about what your doing and you should never have any tail rotor authority / lte or whatever they call it tommorow problem
"The 206 has that woefully inferior tail rotor authority issue hanging over it too."
Thomas...in my limited experience in helicopters to date which includes 1000+ hours in jetrangers ive never had any problem with tail rotor authority..and ive done most hovering ops that require alot of pedal....treat it right and think about what your doing and you should never have any tail rotor authority / lte or whatever they call it tommorow problem
The 206 has that woefully inferior tail rotor authority issue hanging over it too
That is exactly what I was going to say, you just beat me to it!
This LTE "Problem" on B206 is a non issue.