Agusta A109
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The difference here seems to be that there is no evidence of the mistake until the bolt fails, is this true?
To repeat my earlier question, does losing pitch control of one blade not result in loss of control and eye ball mashing vibrations?
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Another day in paradise
To repeat my earlier question, does losing pitch control of one blade not result in loss of control and eye ball mashing vibrations?
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Another day in paradise
Agusta 109 topics
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Sloane Helicopters at
www.sloanehelicopters.com for details and ask for Merrick Forsyth who should be able to help.
www.sloanehelicopters.com for details and ask for Merrick Forsyth who should be able to help.
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I believe this accident involved a standard A109 ie. not the newer 'Power' but can't be sure. It was flown by Italian crew from Helitalia who operate EMS on contract for the Greek authorities and it went down in the early evening in some of the worst storms ever seen in Greece.
I have read that there were 5 people on board including a heart attack patient and a nurse but am unsure whether it was single-pilot. Either way, the crew were reportedly having trouble with the weather conditions before the aircraft was lost on Radar.
I obviously should not be jumping to conclusions so soon, but I would not be too surprised if the horrendous conditions together with the pressure put on crews to get Medevac work done whatever the circumstances, were found to be the primary factors in this accident.
In conclusion, another tragic accident and as always, lessons to be learned by us all.
I have read that there were 5 people on board including a heart attack patient and a nurse but am unsure whether it was single-pilot. Either way, the crew were reportedly having trouble with the weather conditions before the aircraft was lost on Radar.
I obviously should not be jumping to conclusions so soon, but I would not be too surprised if the horrendous conditions together with the pressure put on crews to get Medevac work done whatever the circumstances, were found to be the primary factors in this accident.
In conclusion, another tragic accident and as always, lessons to be learned by us all.
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I understand there is huge dissapointment from Power customers ... 'overengined' cracking of MAJOR components (tail boom, bulk head), less than promised range...
Can this be true?
What is their reliability rating? any good?
They look sexy and go fast tho' ....
Can this be true?
What is their reliability rating? any good?
They look sexy and go fast tho' ....
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Where do you get all your rubish from JOEPILOT!!! how can a helicopter be overengined - surely that is what all real pilots have been crying out for since we started operating helicopters seriously - if not from the begining, never been in that situation where some real power would get you past the worry stage of what if a "donkey" stops now? - maybe the transmision could be made a little more sustantantial for normal ops but would do me fine if I was in dire straights. I,ve been operating the Power now for 2 years and never heard of cracks in the tail etc so again check your source. the Power is an Awesome machine well up to the job required, there will always be improvements to be made in any aircraft, but must say this beast is the best I've ever flown in 20 years!!! so don't let the badmouthers of this world bluff you into thinking the worst
[This message has been edited by swerve (edited 21 January 2001).]
[This message has been edited by swerve (edited 21 January 2001).]
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Swerve
If you feel like that why don't you answer Alouette's initial question?
Why have I heard about the cracks at the back end and alarming accidents if there are no grounds? Have you looked at your A109 Power during your two years and who clears your Check A ability? How often does the back end need inspecting between the standard 50 or 100 hour inspections?
Hopefully for Joe Public (not Joe Pilot) you do not fly PT flights if you haven't noticed or been advised of anything before!
"back to keeping an ear to the ground"
If you feel like that why don't you answer Alouette's initial question?
Why have I heard about the cracks at the back end and alarming accidents if there are no grounds? Have you looked at your A109 Power during your two years and who clears your Check A ability? How often does the back end need inspecting between the standard 50 or 100 hour inspections?
Hopefully for Joe Public (not Joe Pilot) you do not fly PT flights if you haven't noticed or been advised of anything before!
"back to keeping an ear to the ground"
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Earpiece
I usually I have great respect for your clippings/info, generally good stuff well worth reading - however on this one like most miss-informed people you have made 2+2=6
There are no cracks to major components (tail boom bulkhead)as initialy offered by joepilot ( who comes across to me as a pure speculator for cheap gossip) the previous accidents have been due to scissor links fitted the wrong way round, due to arguable reasons, but I believe Agusta were less than clean with their maintenance manuals - we wait to see. the (potential)cracks that I believe you may be hearing about are to the tail rotor blades which needs checking every 10hrs and 25hrs untill replacements are sourced by Augusta, I trully know of no other cracking - and fly PT daily, with no life more valuable than mine !! Trust me
Initial question has been answered by other means - just so you don't think I'm avoiding that question aswell
[This message has been edited by swerve (edited 24 January 2001).]
I usually I have great respect for your clippings/info, generally good stuff well worth reading - however on this one like most miss-informed people you have made 2+2=6
There are no cracks to major components (tail boom bulkhead)as initialy offered by joepilot ( who comes across to me as a pure speculator for cheap gossip) the previous accidents have been due to scissor links fitted the wrong way round, due to arguable reasons, but I believe Agusta were less than clean with their maintenance manuals - we wait to see. the (potential)cracks that I believe you may be hearing about are to the tail rotor blades which needs checking every 10hrs and 25hrs untill replacements are sourced by Augusta, I trully know of no other cracking - and fly PT daily, with no life more valuable than mine !! Trust me
Initial question has been answered by other means - just so you don't think I'm avoiding that question aswell
[This message has been edited by swerve (edited 24 January 2001).]
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If I was a EMS operator the first thing I would notice about the A109P is that has bloody WHEELS!
What the hell use are those things when deciding where to land? The 109 might be sleek and fast but if the paramedics have to run two miles to the incident, what's the point?
A waterlogged Helitech 99 proves my point.
What the hell use are those things when deciding where to land? The 109 might be sleek and fast but if the paramedics have to run two miles to the incident, what's the point?
A waterlogged Helitech 99 proves my point.
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Agusta 109 topics (Merged)
Latest rumour is that the Agusta Koala has been grouned worldwide ! ....anybody have any clues as to why??? 
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This thread is now a merger of various Agusta threads.
See also:
Dyfed-Powis Police ASU buys Agusta
Heliport
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This thread is now a merger of various Agusta threads.
See also:
Dyfed-Powis Police ASU buys Agusta
Heliport
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Spinwing
Got a copy of the AD in front of me. Looks like they found some major cracks in the tailrotor blade. Careflight had been working with CASA once they became aware of it but the crack got worse and now Careflight decided to ground their machine and CASA have basically grounded the other LInfox machine as well.
Not sure what the FAA will do but according to my sources the machine could be down for some time until Agusta sort out the problem.
Dont you just love playing with the first of type.
Got a copy of the AD in front of me. Looks like they found some major cracks in the tailrotor blade. Careflight had been working with CASA once they became aware of it but the crack got worse and now Careflight decided to ground their machine and CASA have basically grounded the other LInfox machine as well.
Not sure what the FAA will do but according to my sources the machine could be down for some time until Agusta sort out the problem.
Dont you just love playing with the first of type.
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Pac Rotors Hi, good morning
In a case such as this and the obvious non use untill sorted, do Heli manufacturers offer replacement birds or do they offer a cash compensation to the owner/user, or is it down to the owner/user to scream loud and hard ?
In a case such as this and the obvious non use untill sorted, do Heli manufacturers offer replacement birds or do they offer a cash compensation to the owner/user, or is it down to the owner/user to scream loud and hard ?
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Not sure what the manufacturers will do in a case like this. I doubt they will appreciate the bad publicity they get from a brand new machine going tits up only a month after going into service. Not sure what is happening with the Koalas based in the US and Europe.
Many manufacturers I think, would be hard pressed coughing up monetary type payments in a situation like this. Its not like they can give them a replacement machine because in OZ all of them are grounded.
Time will tell. If I hear anymore from my contacts will post it here.
Many manufacturers I think, would be hard pressed coughing up monetary type payments in a situation like this. Its not like they can give them a replacement machine because in OZ all of them are grounded.
Time will tell. If I hear anymore from my contacts will post it here.
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It is actually a little strange , most manufacturers issue AD's and then the customer has to purchase the replacement parts ( CHeck out the last paragraph of most US Ad's it gives financial impact of AD ) , If it is in the warranty period I guess most manufacturers would pay for the parts at least.
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As widgeon said, the financial impact of an AD is calculated by the FAA, including parts and labor. Who pays for these 2 costs is worked out by the manufacture (with some input from the customers). Since the Koala is a new machine, they should all be under warranty.
I also think that Augusta needs to deal with this problem fairly quickly, since there's usually a large number of sales when a new model is introduced, and future sales could be hurt without an effective response.
I also think that Augusta needs to deal with this problem fairly quickly, since there's usually a large number of sales when a new model is introduced, and future sales could be hurt without an effective response.
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Latest update on the downunder Koala scenario is apparenytly Agusta have told Careflight that they should change the tail rotor blades every five hours??? 
Now if the program stays as busy as it has been that means every night, that is if the machine doesnt have any jobs, the night crew would have to change the tail rotor blades.
Needless to say Careflight had some very colourful suggestions on what they thought of that idea.
So much for the good ole customer support. By the way Agusta have, from what I understand, not recognised the AD and grounding from here, and as it stands the only two grounded are the ones in Australia. Time will tell if the same problem surfaces in the US and Europe.
Now if the program stays as busy as it has been that means every night, that is if the machine doesnt have any jobs, the night crew would have to change the tail rotor blades.
Needless to say Careflight had some very colourful suggestions on what they thought of that idea.
So much for the good ole customer support. By the way Agusta have, from what I understand, not recognised the AD and grounding from here, and as it stands the only two grounded are the ones in Australia. Time will tell if the same problem surfaces in the US and Europe.