Bristow North Sea
Guest
Posts: n/a
Tuckunder:
As usual, you just like to try and have the last word! Well after this you can!!
Am I arrogant? For and about some things, yes I am and I have no regrets over it.
However, I have decided to leave this forum as I am fed up with the same old people coming up with the same old ideas and moans. If you feel you can do it better than the CCs in either company, then vote them off and do it yourselves. If not, then let them do their work.
I have said my last words. GOODBYE ALL!!
As usual, you just like to try and have the last word! Well after this you can!!
Am I arrogant? For and about some things, yes I am and I have no regrets over it.
However, I have decided to leave this forum as I am fed up with the same old people coming up with the same old ideas and moans. If you feel you can do it better than the CCs in either company, then vote them off and do it yourselves. If not, then let them do their work.
I have said my last words. GOODBYE ALL!!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Scotland
Age: 70
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Taff missed:
Am I missing something here? I thought my second post to Speedwing suggested going to private e-mail. I supplied mine. Does it mean that because he or she does not wish to communicate privately, that I should just meakly accept what was said? I am sorry but, I defend all that I have said on this forum and I certainly do not think that any of these comments have any bearing on the management or the result of the ballot. I think there are great signs of a unified workforce, probably far more than ever in the history of the North Sea. I am sorry that Speedwing wishes to leave the forum but that is his or her choice.
Am I missing something here? I thought my second post to Speedwing suggested going to private e-mail. I supplied mine. Does it mean that because he or she does not wish to communicate privately, that I should just meakly accept what was said? I am sorry but, I defend all that I have said on this forum and I certainly do not think that any of these comments have any bearing on the management or the result of the ballot. I think there are great signs of a unified workforce, probably far more than ever in the history of the North Sea. I am sorry that Speedwing wishes to leave the forum but that is his or her choice.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bristow Staff Meeting
All BHL staff are invited to an Urgent Pay Review meeting at the Dyce Marriot Hotel 7th September at 15:00, Called by the CEO Mr Chanter.
P.S Anyone that knows me I have just rejoined BALPA
P.S Anyone that knows me I have just rejoined BALPA
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Scotland
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QM
Welcome to the Brotherhood (there is safty in numbers).
Are you aware that Scotia management have taken the "Ostrich approach" to discussions with our CC, and has refused to meet with the CC to be told officialy that we are in Dispute.
How very nieve!!!!
Please don't sell the North Sea pilots short there has NEVER been a better time to regain sensible salaries.
Welcome to the Brotherhood (there is safty in numbers).
Are you aware that Scotia management have taken the "Ostrich approach" to discussions with our CC, and has refused to meet with the CC to be told officialy that we are in Dispute.
How very nieve!!!!
Please don't sell the North Sea pilots short there has NEVER been a better time to regain sensible salaries.
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Hibernia
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now is the time to don our tin hats and put our heads above the parapet. Scotia management are so busy trying to find the person who put forward the crazy new callsigns (lasted a week) that they don't have time for important meetings!! Join BALPA and make a stand. By the way what is "nieve" is it the french for stupid?
Ally
Ally
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Haggisland
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The French for stupid is bête. Or if you prefer, stupide.
I think that you all better tendre l'oreill at the meeting rather than pousser des cris.
Or will it all turn into another pagaille like the others?
Don't you think that you can learn so much from this Internet thingie nowadays?
I think that you all better tendre l'oreill at the meeting rather than pousser des cris.
Or will it all turn into another pagaille like the others?
Don't you think that you can learn so much from this Internet thingie nowadays?
Hope everyone else does too.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Roundwego,
Is it difficult to work out from the message icon?
(Public forums are not the place to discuss private company issues).
[ 08 September 2001: Message edited by: QM ]
Is it difficult to work out from the message icon?
(Public forums are not the place to discuss private company issues).
[ 08 September 2001: Message edited by: QM ]
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Scotland
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QM
Stop teasing and spill the beans!!!!!!!
This forum has no boundaries and I agree that some company info should remain within the confines of that workforce however! if the meeting was to discus the north sea pilots plight then maybe that portion of the meeting should be aired on this forum as any decision taken will have a knock on effect to ALL pilots.
Stop teasing and spill the beans!!!!!!!
This forum has no boundaries and I agree that some company info should remain within the confines of that workforce however! if the meeting was to discus the north sea pilots plight then maybe that portion of the meeting should be aired on this forum as any decision taken will have a knock on effect to ALL pilots.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes okay, after returning to work today, it is abundantly clear that the CC have not attended the meeting as nothing is on the notice board other than email I received from Scotia.
The upshot, if you accept the pay deal, our company will hurt trying to give it to you. If you don't accept it, and that was the clear message given by the CEO and a nodding Osbourne behind him, then there is more ammunition for them to negotiate with. Chanter even stated himself, the time is now!
So, No, Yes, Yes to your ballot papers. There appears to be a lack of communication within our company that needs addressing....URGENTLY.
The upshot, if you accept the pay deal, our company will hurt trying to give it to you. If you don't accept it, and that was the clear message given by the CEO and a nodding Osbourne behind him, then there is more ammunition for them to negotiate with. Chanter even stated himself, the time is now!
So, No, Yes, Yes to your ballot papers. There appears to be a lack of communication within our company that needs addressing....URGENTLY.
Were we at the same meeting ?
I got a different impression entirely - I don't think he was talking in codes, he said that we are unable to renegotiate contracts mid-term and some oil companies are being sympathetic while others are predictably not.
But he did say that a 'yes' vote would enable them to continue the negotiations for 'benchmarking' and long-term increases in wages, which he stated was inevitable due to airline wages and obvious advances being made at Scotia. He also suggested that a 'no' vote would further damage the companies reputation and the general opinion of relations between management and staff at Bristow.
Perhaps I have all of this wrong and if so I apologise for taing things too literally and not trying to look for deeper meanings. The obvious debate as to how to overcome the pension problems clearly needs some attention particularly for those of us without that much time left to run but I am willing to stand up and agree that yes the time is now, and the company should have been badgering the oil companies for years, warning them of this time. Unfortunately there have been no major contract negotiations since Shell 3 years ago and you can't expect the company coffers to suddenly stump up 25% rise for everyone - It simply isn't going to happen.
Vote yes and accept that it is going to take 3 to 4 years to really get where you want to be.
I got a different impression entirely - I don't think he was talking in codes, he said that we are unable to renegotiate contracts mid-term and some oil companies are being sympathetic while others are predictably not.
But he did say that a 'yes' vote would enable them to continue the negotiations for 'benchmarking' and long-term increases in wages, which he stated was inevitable due to airline wages and obvious advances being made at Scotia. He also suggested that a 'no' vote would further damage the companies reputation and the general opinion of relations between management and staff at Bristow.
Perhaps I have all of this wrong and if so I apologise for taing things too literally and not trying to look for deeper meanings. The obvious debate as to how to overcome the pension problems clearly needs some attention particularly for those of us without that much time left to run but I am willing to stand up and agree that yes the time is now, and the company should have been badgering the oil companies for years, warning them of this time. Unfortunately there have been no major contract negotiations since Shell 3 years ago and you can't expect the company coffers to suddenly stump up 25% rise for everyone - It simply isn't going to happen.
Vote yes and accept that it is going to take 3 to 4 years to really get where you want to be.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Special 25, Yes we were at the same meeting and you seem to have a differing view from most other people who attended.
Actually when I asked him if an acceptance or rejection would make any difference, he said "no it wouldn't", you must have heard him say that. He did state that a strike would badly damage the companies image and I agree with him on that particular subject (personally I don't and have never condoned strike action), but equally, you need to consider Scotia's involvement and how a yes vote would affect their position and ours. This is not just about us and them, it is bigger than that.
I do feel that further negotiation is required, but the oil companies need to realize that we are serious about this subject.
Actually when I asked him if an acceptance or rejection would make any difference, he said "no it wouldn't", you must have heard him say that. He did state that a strike would badly damage the companies image and I agree with him on that particular subject (personally I don't and have never condoned strike action), but equally, you need to consider Scotia's involvement and how a yes vote would affect their position and ours. This is not just about us and them, it is bigger than that.
I do feel that further negotiation is required, but the oil companies need to realize that we are serious about this subject.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Scotch Land
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QM
Mostly agree. BUT a no will make the management look bad in front of the board, shareholders and oil companies, not the workers who have been sh*#ted over the years by said management. Sorry Special 25 you missed the subtle bits.
No one really wants this sort of situation to spiral into industrial action, but there comes a time when as one PPRUNER put "value for money & money for value", is required. NOW is the time for this not next year or later. The changing world market forces and global economic climate will no doubt change enough for the Oil companies and management to say 'sorry' but things are now tight and we can't afford to bring you up to airline salaries/bench marking blah, blah, waffle etc.
Mostly agree. BUT a no will make the management look bad in front of the board, shareholders and oil companies, not the workers who have been sh*#ted over the years by said management. Sorry Special 25 you missed the subtle bits.
No one really wants this sort of situation to spiral into industrial action, but there comes a time when as one PPRUNER put "value for money & money for value", is required. NOW is the time for this not next year or later. The changing world market forces and global economic climate will no doubt change enough for the Oil companies and management to say 'sorry' but things are now tight and we can't afford to bring you up to airline salaries/bench marking blah, blah, waffle etc.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Crabete,
Agreed, except I feel that a no vote would clearly say to the management and the oil companies, that we aren't happy with the latest offer. Yes the company can only offer this amount, nobody expects anymore from the company. The extra needs to come from the oil companies.
If the management attend the meetings, one of which is today, it can be clearly stated, "we have offered the work force all that we can, they are not happy and want parity now". There is no way our company can do this, it is therefore up to our clients to increase the rates immediately.
As you say a time will come, not very long from now when something will have to be done. I mentioned I don't personally condone it, but needs must and we have to do things that we may not agree with in order to gain our objective.
P.S. Why are our CC being very quiet over this, I haven't heard a word from them?
[ 11 September 2001: Message edited by: QM ]
Agreed, except I feel that a no vote would clearly say to the management and the oil companies, that we aren't happy with the latest offer. Yes the company can only offer this amount, nobody expects anymore from the company. The extra needs to come from the oil companies.
If the management attend the meetings, one of which is today, it can be clearly stated, "we have offered the work force all that we can, they are not happy and want parity now". There is no way our company can do this, it is therefore up to our clients to increase the rates immediately.
As you say a time will come, not very long from now when something will have to be done. I mentioned I don't personally condone it, but needs must and we have to do things that we may not agree with in order to gain our objective.
P.S. Why are our CC being very quiet over this, I haven't heard a word from them?
[ 11 September 2001: Message edited by: QM ]
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: 50 50 Broome
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, the poor company say that they can't afford to give us a rise because the oil companies are not paying them enough and they can't re-negotiate mid term.
If we accept, we will have little extra cash and just more empty promises.
If the global economic slowdown continues, the oil price may fall and we will have achieved nothing. We are only able to improve our lot by taking advantage of a crew shortage and a high oil price. If either one of those changes, we have no voice or power.
I think that the time is NOW to show what we can do to the oil industry before it is too late and we miss this opportunity.
If we accept, we will have little extra cash and just more empty promises.
If the global economic slowdown continues, the oil price may fall and we will have achieved nothing. We are only able to improve our lot by taking advantage of a crew shortage and a high oil price. If either one of those changes, we have no voice or power.
I think that the time is NOW to show what we can do to the oil industry before it is too late and we miss this opportunity.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Caribbean
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My experience of oil company contracts is that there is scope for annual review of rates. Obviously to help compensate for all kinds of market rate changes. Furthermore, there is almost always scope for immediate review due to unexpected rate rises i.e. fuel, exchange rates etc. These rises have to be justified and documented. I can't see why market pressures on salaries are any different. In my view if you want increased rates it is possible if you push hard enough and can justify it.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since when has company image mattered in these issues? Whether pilots stike for higher wages...better conditions...has nothing to do with image. The problem is that of a management that is unable to maintain a reasonable dialogue with its employees....any hope pilots have of acheiving their goals is to stay the course and not give in short of success.
If all the pilots at Bristow and Scotia work together in this you cannot fail. Just where are the replacement pilots going to come from? I can assure you they do not exist anywhere now....Americans are getting their raises and still cannot man the operations on the Gulf Coast. Air Log is running 15% short of the numbers needed to crew their aircraft now...they have 30 pilots each day working over on their time off now. PHI has the same problem. The company is desperately short of pilots overseas and cannot man the operations sufficiently to avoid time and duty hour problems. They cannot draw from overseas operations to replace you. The management ranks have been reduced to minimum...now is the time. If the oil patch slows down the company will be in a position to hold down wages yet again.
When PHI increased pilot wages 40%, they immediately raised rates 30% and lost not one contract. Do you think the North Sea is any different? If Scotia and Bristow raise rates then the oil company has no choice but to pay up.
The only issue with which I see a problem is the pension funding issue and I see the pilots being able to work that out with the company. The sticking point as I see it...is the old Bristow management dictatorial attitude in action here. They fight change and refuse to go along when it is someone else calling the tune for a change. They are in a position to greatly improve the lot of the employees by passing the costs along to the customers...just this time they cannot take a piece of the action when they do.
The old Bristow does not exist anymore...nor the loyalty that Mr. Bristow had for his people....this management has proven what they think loyalty means...ask the 52 pilots that got shifted a while back for being more than 53 years old. They don't give a stuff for you...so why do you worry about the image of the company.
The overseas pilots support your aims on the pay issues....don't look for us to come to the North Sea and replace you....we have our own axe to grind over pay , pension, and living conditions.
If all the pilots at Bristow and Scotia work together in this you cannot fail. Just where are the replacement pilots going to come from? I can assure you they do not exist anywhere now....Americans are getting their raises and still cannot man the operations on the Gulf Coast. Air Log is running 15% short of the numbers needed to crew their aircraft now...they have 30 pilots each day working over on their time off now. PHI has the same problem. The company is desperately short of pilots overseas and cannot man the operations sufficiently to avoid time and duty hour problems. They cannot draw from overseas operations to replace you. The management ranks have been reduced to minimum...now is the time. If the oil patch slows down the company will be in a position to hold down wages yet again.
When PHI increased pilot wages 40%, they immediately raised rates 30% and lost not one contract. Do you think the North Sea is any different? If Scotia and Bristow raise rates then the oil company has no choice but to pay up.
The only issue with which I see a problem is the pension funding issue and I see the pilots being able to work that out with the company. The sticking point as I see it...is the old Bristow management dictatorial attitude in action here. They fight change and refuse to go along when it is someone else calling the tune for a change. They are in a position to greatly improve the lot of the employees by passing the costs along to the customers...just this time they cannot take a piece of the action when they do.
The old Bristow does not exist anymore...nor the loyalty that Mr. Bristow had for his people....this management has proven what they think loyalty means...ask the 52 pilots that got shifted a while back for being more than 53 years old. They don't give a stuff for you...so why do you worry about the image of the company.
The overseas pilots support your aims on the pay issues....don't look for us to come to the North Sea and replace you....we have our own axe to grind over pay , pension, and living conditions.