BK117
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Sydney
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BK117 Long Range Fuel Tanks??
They do look like long range fuel tanks similar to the ERA tanks fitted to some early model Bell 412's... they look good on this BK117 but I wonder if you can fill them with FUEL and TAKE-OFF???
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: new zealand
Age: 53
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BK117/ EC145 aifram course?
anybody know of a company running airframe training courses for bk117 or ec145 (engineers) near NZ or Australia? have tried airwork but nothing planned this year and possibly not on the cards next year either.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North of East, South of West
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Foot steps
Big Bucks
Yep they are combined foot step and fuel tanks, they feed into the main system but can't be refuelled freom the main system i.e. you have to fill em separately.
If I remember correctly there is a reduced VNE and therefore cruise and a slight increase in fuel consumption due to the extra drag.
The trade off in speed doesn't make them much use on longer transits.
As to the original subject of the thread I too have had the pitch up, this extract from the report to the operator;
Conditions at the time were +20˚c, 6000 amsl 1015mb , 65% torque with an IAS of 125kts, little turbulence, straight and level with the APs both engaged in SAS mode, fuel load was 220 kg and the AUW was under 3000kg but not by a significant amount. The aircraft was not fitted with any external accessories. Internal load distribution was not considered to be a factor.
After the recovery was achieved it was noted that the AP1 and AP2 captions were illuminated and the following codes were displayed, 1E45 and 2E43 no other captions were noted to have illuminated during the incident.
Earlier in the transit the SPAS caption illuminated for no apparent reason it was selected off for a period and then reselected on with no disturbance or further failure. It was noted that the movement of the cyclic during the reselection of the SPAS was similar to that experienced when the pitch up was experienced and I concluded that there may be a connection to this system with the pith up event.
For those interested it was a C1 which had suffered an number of these events, ECD gave the systems (Hyd, AP/SPAS, Controls and rigging) a full going over and no faults were found.
To regain control I initiated a roll to the left and wingovered out of it so to speak.
Yep they are combined foot step and fuel tanks, they feed into the main system but can't be refuelled freom the main system i.e. you have to fill em separately.
If I remember correctly there is a reduced VNE and therefore cruise and a slight increase in fuel consumption due to the extra drag.
The trade off in speed doesn't make them much use on longer transits.
As to the original subject of the thread I too have had the pitch up, this extract from the report to the operator;
Conditions at the time were +20˚c, 6000 amsl 1015mb , 65% torque with an IAS of 125kts, little turbulence, straight and level with the APs both engaged in SAS mode, fuel load was 220 kg and the AUW was under 3000kg but not by a significant amount. The aircraft was not fitted with any external accessories. Internal load distribution was not considered to be a factor.
After the recovery was achieved it was noted that the AP1 and AP2 captions were illuminated and the following codes were displayed, 1E45 and 2E43 no other captions were noted to have illuminated during the incident.
Earlier in the transit the SPAS caption illuminated for no apparent reason it was selected off for a period and then reselected on with no disturbance or further failure. It was noted that the movement of the cyclic during the reselection of the SPAS was similar to that experienced when the pitch up was experienced and I concluded that there may be a connection to this system with the pith up event.
For those interested it was a C1 which had suffered an number of these events, ECD gave the systems (Hyd, AP/SPAS, Controls and rigging) a full going over and no faults were found.
To regain control I initiated a roll to the left and wingovered out of it so to speak.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indianapolis
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BK 117 Gearbox Information Needed
Hello everyone,
I am very new to this forum, but I have run across this site several times in search for information. I am looking for information on what the input and ouput speeds and torques are for the intermediate and tail gearboxes on the Mbb/Kawasaki BK117. I am looking for these values at 100% rated speed and torque. (not maximum) Any links would be helpful.
Thanks for your help.
I am very new to this forum, but I have run across this site several times in search for information. I am looking for information on what the input and ouput speeds and torques are for the intermediate and tail gearboxes on the Mbb/Kawasaki BK117. I am looking for these values at 100% rated speed and torque. (not maximum) Any links would be helpful.
Thanks for your help.
Hi TSG,
Ta, KP
- Long TRDS speed into IGB = 2396 rpm Input
- Intermediate TRDS speed out of 50deg IGB = increase to 2995 rpm Output
- 90deg TRGB = decrease to 2169 rpm Output
Ta, KP
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indianapolis
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BK 117
First off thanks to the mod. who moved this to where it might get better responses.....
KP,
Thanks for the information. You don't have any idea of the torques associated with those rpms do you. (or HP and I can calculate torque).
Thanks
TSG
KP,
Thanks for the information. You don't have any idea of the torques associated with those rpms do you. (or HP and I can calculate torque).
Thanks
TSG
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Zealand
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BK117C1
Hi, Does anyone have experience on the C1's, do they have CAT A profiles for other than clear helipads and if so is a min distance stated. They appear to have good OEI performance, very close to the Airwork 850D figures without the expensive mod required. Our company is considering an IFR one as a multirole SAR/EMS ship. Any thoughts guys/gals??
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Honeywell has comparative figures for BK117B-2, C-1 and the LTS101-850D mod. The -850D performs much better than all of them. There's a couple now flying in Sydney with the mod and they're happy with it - neither C-1 nor the -850D has an increased MTOW, though; so you still can't carry payload AND fuel...
C-1 OEI is much better than the B-2 (on paper). It's the real AEO figures you need to worry about...
C-1 OEI is much better than the B-2 (on paper). It's the real AEO figures you need to worry about...
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: argentina
Age: 59
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I need BK-117c1 flm
Hello everybody. I need the FLM and the familiarization manual, C1 version. Engine Arriel 1e with honeywell DAFCS. If anyone need, i have the full EC-135T2+ FLM + familiarization manual. Thanks a lot!!!!
Join Date: Jan 2010
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cat a operations
ec-135t2+ for clear heliport
tomorrow i`ll post bk info
DEFINITIONS
- Takeoff Decision Point TDP . .20 ft130 KlAS
- Landing Decision Point LDP 80ft 40 KIAS/
300 RD < 500 fl min
8.2. LiMlTATiONS (IN ADDITION TO THE LIMITATIONS GIVEN IN PART A, "GENERAL")
8.2.1. CERTIFICATION CRITERIA
The definition given below are related to the respective emergency and normal procedures
- A surface level heliport, certified for day and night operations, with
minimum field size of a minimum field length defined by the takeoff and landing distances
of this chapter and a minimum field width of 15 m.
tomorrow i`ll post bk info
DEFINITIONS
- Takeoff Decision Point TDP . .20 ft130 KlAS
- Landing Decision Point LDP 80ft 40 KIAS/
300 RD < 500 fl min
8.2. LiMlTATiONS (IN ADDITION TO THE LIMITATIONS GIVEN IN PART A, "GENERAL")
8.2.1. CERTIFICATION CRITERIA
The definition given below are related to the respective emergency and normal procedures
- A surface level heliport, certified for day and night operations, with
minimum field size of a minimum field length defined by the takeoff and landing distances
of this chapter and a minimum field width of 15 m.
Last edited by skiper-choper; 23rd Dec 2010 at 20:26. Reason: improvement info
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: S-E Oz
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BK117 Uncommanded Pitch Up
Had a BK 'moment' the other night....
During a fully coupled ILS approach, practice for currency under VFR conditions otherwise would have been even more disconcerting...
Tracking down the ILS nicely until we go over the Outer Marker, as soon as we get the lights and audio we get a 10-15 degree pitch up, we decoupled the AP after it showed no signs of trying to regain glideslope after a couple hundred feet....
Spoke to another operator and they had the same thing in their BK, but not their B412....
There is a radio mast just left of track, possible signal interference....???
Thoughts....
During a fully coupled ILS approach, practice for currency under VFR conditions otherwise would have been even more disconcerting...
Tracking down the ILS nicely until we go over the Outer Marker, as soon as we get the lights and audio we get a 10-15 degree pitch up, we decoupled the AP after it showed no signs of trying to regain glideslope after a couple hundred feet....
Spoke to another operator and they had the same thing in their BK, but not their B412....
There is a radio mast just left of track, possible signal interference....???
Thoughts....
Hello LandSeaAir69,
that is a fairly commen experience in the BK117 - had it with differnt machines - always at the same position.
Some airports are more prone to this behavior than others.
Itīs an very old computer in the autopilot......
Just be prepared while on the ILS, especially passing the OM - and either go around or reset the AP
Greetings Udo
"Flying Bull"
Hi,
me again - had a talk to a fellow pilot - itīs actually not the OM causing the disturbance, itīs the RAD-Alt setting in - which is about 2000 feet (on some places the position of the OM)
So have a look on the RAD-Alt or knowing where you pass the 2.000 feet, to be prepared!
that is a fairly commen experience in the BK117 - had it with differnt machines - always at the same position.
Some airports are more prone to this behavior than others.
Itīs an very old computer in the autopilot......
Just be prepared while on the ILS, especially passing the OM - and either go around or reset the AP
Greetings Udo
"Flying Bull"
Hi,
me again - had a talk to a fellow pilot - itīs actually not the OM causing the disturbance, itīs the RAD-Alt setting in - which is about 2000 feet (on some places the position of the OM)
So have a look on the RAD-Alt or knowing where you pass the 2.000 feet, to be prepared!
Last edited by Flying Bull; 2nd Oct 2015 at 12:40. Reason: new/more information
B2 vs C1 differences
Hi, is there a differences paper or training manual for the above?
Looking for an official training manual for the C1 if possible.
Cheers BM
Looking for an official training manual for the C1 if possible.
Cheers BM
I try to catch one from the trainings department and ask him.
Bye the way, anyone interested in buying 1 to 3 BK117C1?
roughly between 5600 and 6000 hrs, 13.000 to 14.00 landings, NVG - cockpits
Greetings Flying Bull
Hi BigMike,
the last difference training was quite a while ago, so no papers just at hand.
From memory,
You need some theoretical part, covering the engines, especially the overspeed protection, possible different copckpit layout (Fuel-shut-off-lever-assembly, different switch- and fuse panels), VARTOMS (variable Rotorspeed and TQ Matching system)
as well as an smal amount of flying.
Greetings Flying Bull
the last difference training was quite a while ago, so no papers just at hand.
From memory,
You need some theoretical part, covering the engines, especially the overspeed protection, possible different copckpit layout (Fuel-shut-off-lever-assembly, different switch- and fuse panels), VARTOMS (variable Rotorspeed and TQ Matching system)
as well as an smal amount of flying.
Greetings Flying Bull