A Question About Heli's And Poor Weather
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A Question About Heli's And Poor Weather
I was having a nose around an airport in South East England today, when a large storm broke, very heavy rain (enough to cause localised flooding) periods of hail and very frequent lightning.
I decided that it was unlikely that much would happening there given the weather situation, so I was about to leave to carry on with what I should have been doing (shopping near by !
) when I noticed an R22 (probably from the flying school) take off and carry out some manouvres at low level (20-30 ft or so)
This carried on for about five minutes with lightning all around, the helicopter then returned to its area on the airfield and landed.
The reason I'm posting this is that I was surprised to see the helicopter operating in the conditions and I don't know a great deal about the rotary wing side of aviation, and just wondered if it is normal to continue to operate under these circumstances.
Certainly not trying to stir up anything, which is why I've left all identifying details out, just curious as to the limitations and what's normal for this sort of helicopter.
I couldn't say whether a lesson was being carried out, testing or something else altogether, could this have been a factor ?
Again, not stirring, just interested, so please, no flame wars !
Regards,
Pc
I decided that it was unlikely that much would happening there given the weather situation, so I was about to leave to carry on with what I should have been doing (shopping near by !
) when I noticed an R22 (probably from the flying school) take off and carry out some manouvres at low level (20-30 ft or so)This carried on for about five minutes with lightning all around, the helicopter then returned to its area on the airfield and landed.
The reason I'm posting this is that I was surprised to see the helicopter operating in the conditions and I don't know a great deal about the rotary wing side of aviation, and just wondered if it is normal to continue to operate under these circumstances.
Certainly not trying to stir up anything, which is why I've left all identifying details out, just curious as to the limitations and what's normal for this sort of helicopter.
I couldn't say whether a lesson was being carried out, testing or something else altogether, could this have been a factor ?
Again, not stirring, just interested, so please, no flame wars !
Regards,
Pc
Gatvol
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As you describe the situation, it does not sound abnormal. Could be a maintenance check or something similar. You should clarify Lightning all around. Like on the airfield or a few kms away. I dont get along well with lightning. If it was a towered airport he was in their control and as long as the pilot had VFR minimums he was probabaly OK.
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Ouch!
I think Paracab, meant is it normal! cause it isnt from were i sit! Bob,,,
Quote:
As you describe the situation, it does not sound abnormal.
Who the Heck chooses to go fly when its heavy rain and lightning that can be seen ??
Ummm Dick Head comes to mind!
Quote:
As you describe the situation, it does not sound abnormal.
Who the Heck chooses to go fly when its heavy rain and lightning that can be seen ??
Ummm Dick Head comes to mind!
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Phallic Resembler? - I think not...
It sounds like pretty poor weather in the area, but I doubt anyone would go out with hail or lightening on the field. It may have been light rain on the field with more ferocious stuff nearby. In the U.S., many Class E airports only begin at 700' AGL. There is nothing wrong with low-level maneuvers or maintenance flight test.
Senis Semper Fidelis
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Up here in the North of England we are not renowned for having good wx, when I was training for my PPL(H) the lady instructor took me up in some wx that really was the pits, I can remember flying a circuit of 5 NM to miss a snow storm, flying into EGNH just after they had the perfect storm of the year in 1998 was a total experience " not another A/C in the sky" I could pick wherever I wanted to fly into, thing is it gives you the confidence to be able to handle and hover taxi in alsorts of WX, the sun dont always shine, and you must be able to handle it!
Peter R-B
Vfr
Peter R-B
Vfr
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In Holland the minimum vfr values for uncontrolled airspace below 3000 feet is : 1500 m vis and clear of clouds. And trust me, this is not much when you're flying in a R22.
Where it isolated CB's? In that case it's simple to fly around them..
DJG
Where it isolated CB's? In that case it's simple to fly around them..
DJG
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LMFAO
Vfrpilotpb..
NOT ANOTHER AIRCRAFT IN THE SKY...
Did that not tell you something???
just after they had the perfect storm of the year in 1998 was a total experience " not another A/C in the sky" I could pick wherever I wanted to fly into,
Did that not tell you something???
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Snow is a different critter; especially if localized. Almost EVERY small airports in my area completely shuts down to stuck-wing aircraft when there is any accumulation of snow. Fortunately, we aren't limited by a runway. So, I agree with Vfrpilotpb... those are really great days to fly. There usually is NOT another aircraft in the sky (except the occassional 747 above 18,000' enroute to Dulles). What's wrong with that?
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One of the beauties of flying helicopters is the ability to safely fly in pretty bad weather conditions. But you have to be careful, as always.
Hovering around an airfield in really grotty weather conditions is actually a good time to learn to hover, do low airspeed things, and so on. It's going to drive ATC nuts if you're at a controlled airfield because this is one of those things that doesn't fit into their big picture.
Normally, you'd have to have a good relationship with the tower folks who might let you stay on ground control frequency and hover taxi up and down taxiways and runways and things, but if you start to do anything else, or the weather is really bad, it could screw up their IFR traffic, as you would normally be considered 'special VFR'.
The only technical issue is whether it's a good idea to fly around in heavy rain from the point of view of erosion on the blades.
Hovering around an airfield in really grotty weather conditions is actually a good time to learn to hover, do low airspeed things, and so on. It's going to drive ATC nuts if you're at a controlled airfield because this is one of those things that doesn't fit into their big picture.
Normally, you'd have to have a good relationship with the tower folks who might let you stay on ground control frequency and hover taxi up and down taxiways and runways and things, but if you start to do anything else, or the weather is really bad, it could screw up their IFR traffic, as you would normally be considered 'special VFR'.
The only technical issue is whether it's a good idea to fly around in heavy rain from the point of view of erosion on the blades.
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"When the weather is too bad to go IFR, go VFR in a helicopter."
Because you can go so low and slow as to literally pick your way along the highway.
Yeah, we do things in training that you wouldn't do otherwise, such as train in heavy winds that you wouldn't normally take passengers in, but you want to be able to handle it if it comes up unexpectedly.
Lightning? Not a problem. When have you heard of lightning striking an aircraft? Lightning is attracted to GROUNDED OBJECTS. An aircraft may be subjected to side-effects if lightning strikes a tower next to the helicopter, but if you stay away from tall trees, etc, you are not in danger of being struck by lightning.
Because you can go so low and slow as to literally pick your way along the highway.
Yeah, we do things in training that you wouldn't do otherwise, such as train in heavy winds that you wouldn't normally take passengers in, but you want to be able to handle it if it comes up unexpectedly.
Lightning? Not a problem. When have you heard of lightning striking an aircraft? Lightning is attracted to GROUNDED OBJECTS. An aircraft may be subjected to side-effects if lightning strikes a tower next to the helicopter, but if you stay away from tall trees, etc, you are not in danger of being struck by lightning.
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A helicopter is certainly the only VFR aircraft that I want to be in when the weather is marginal and the trend is worsening. I have had tea with more than one family, surprised when I "dropped in" to wait something out.
The weather as described doesn't sound bad for low level stuff at an airport, but I understand the R-22 can be a handful in very windy conditions (I've never flown one). As for lightning, I know of more than one helicopter that has been struck and, while the results were not immediately apparent, the cost of changing almost every bearing on the aircraft was very expensive.
That being said, it used to be commonplace, when fighting fires, to take off and follow a CB as it came by your staging area to "call in" the strikes. We called in over 40 starts from one cell a few years ago in northern Alberta. It seems that this isn't done much anymore, as I have been on a few fire bases lately where all aircraft are ordered to remain on the ground when there are thunderstorms in the area. I am not aware of any incidents that caused this change of attitude, but I just give the customer what they want, provided I am happy with my personal level of safety.
HV
The weather as described doesn't sound bad for low level stuff at an airport, but I understand the R-22 can be a handful in very windy conditions (I've never flown one). As for lightning, I know of more than one helicopter that has been struck and, while the results were not immediately apparent, the cost of changing almost every bearing on the aircraft was very expensive.
That being said, it used to be commonplace, when fighting fires, to take off and follow a CB as it came by your staging area to "call in" the strikes. We called in over 40 starts from one cell a few years ago in northern Alberta. It seems that this isn't done much anymore, as I have been on a few fire bases lately where all aircraft are ordered to remain on the ground when there are thunderstorms in the area. I am not aware of any incidents that caused this change of attitude, but I just give the customer what they want, provided I am happy with my personal level of safety.
HV
Tightgit
Nosehair nosenuthin......
I can recall at least one ABZ based AS332L grounded because of serious scoring of the rotor mast due lightning strike(s)
I can recall at least one ABZ based AS332L grounded because of serious scoring of the rotor mast due lightning strike(s)
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When have you heard of lightning striking an aircraft?
In terms of "grounded objects", an a/c may be grounded relative to the electrical charge (negative charge) in the atmosphere and thus receive a lightning strike. The opposite may also occur when the a/c has a surplus of electrons (negative charge) relative to the local atmosphere and the lightning would then go from the plane to the sky which would have a positve charge
In terms of flying a chopper near lightning, I will defintiely pass on that one.
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Helicopters are much more problematic with respect to lightning than fixed-wing. You don't need to be grounded, just have an electrical charge opposite to that of the bolt. And if you don't think helicopters build up an electrical charge, just grab a cargo hook while one is hovering! The strike can cause much more catastrophic damage to a helicopter, because of all the moving parts. If the strike exits a main rotor blade, it can cause balance problems, perhaps major. I've seen the results of strikes going through the transmission, which left the bearings badly damaged. Very scary stuff.
And the fatal S76 crash in the North Sea not so long ago resulted, at least in part, from a previous strike on a main rotor blade. Anyone who believes that an aircraft can't be struck by lightning is very ignorant.
As for the R22, who knows. Doing hover work at 20' or so isn't usually a problem from a visibility standpoint, but I think I would have waited for better weather if there was any choice - and there is almost always a choice.
And the fatal S76 crash in the North Sea not so long ago resulted, at least in part, from a previous strike on a main rotor blade. Anyone who believes that an aircraft can't be struck by lightning is very ignorant.
As for the R22, who knows. Doing hover work at 20' or so isn't usually a problem from a visibility standpoint, but I think I would have waited for better weather if there was any choice - and there is almost always a choice.
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There was also a Super Puma lost after a lightning strike took out most of the tail rotor. I would advise Nosehair to have a look at the AAIB website for information about the effects of lightning strikes on several helicopters. I heard that after a few incidents the Met Office are even looking into the possibility that helicopters can actually trigger a lightning strike.
So while I'm happy to fly in relatively strong winds, one flash and I'm out of there..
So while I'm happy to fly in relatively strong winds, one flash and I'm out of there..
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Lightning can strike helos.
An one of my instructors took a lightning strike in a 206 while fighting fires last year.
Didnt do any structural dammage, however it did fry the electrics, including the radios, batteries, and GPS.
Spent a couple of weeks in the shop to get it all working again.
An one of my instructors took a lightning strike in a 206 while fighting fires last year.
Didnt do any structural dammage, however it did fry the electrics, including the radios, batteries, and GPS.
Spent a couple of weeks in the shop to get it all working again.
Senis Semper Fidelis
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Hey Rotoryman,
To answer your question , er, or should I say statement!:-
The lady FI was training me for my test flight with the CAA, she had immense skill and ability, and the perfect storm was one of these things that rumble out nowhere to create havoc for everyone and then having spent its power it limps away and the sun shines again, she was in minute by minute contact with the ATc chaps at EGNH and told me to carry on flying, whilst she was talking and ATC were replying she was guiding me just gently to the left, and lo, the storm having raged for about 12 minutes at EGNH was disappearing down my starboard side, the ride wasn't turbulance free, but what an experience, before you try to jump up and down about the need to fly, I did on reflection feel happy that my instructor had given me the chance to get some experience of the awsome power from such a beast of a storm just to feel the strength and power of such gusts, as we were returning from a pretty long pre test lesson, it was yet another lesson of just how to handle odd wx situations
To answer your question , er, or should I say statement!:-
The lady FI was training me for my test flight with the CAA, she had immense skill and ability, and the perfect storm was one of these things that rumble out nowhere to create havoc for everyone and then having spent its power it limps away and the sun shines again, she was in minute by minute contact with the ATc chaps at EGNH and told me to carry on flying, whilst she was talking and ATC were replying she was guiding me just gently to the left, and lo, the storm having raged for about 12 minutes at EGNH was disappearing down my starboard side, the ride wasn't turbulance free, but what an experience, before you try to jump up and down about the need to fly, I did on reflection feel happy that my instructor had given me the chance to get some experience of the awsome power from such a beast of a storm just to feel the strength and power of such gusts, as we were returning from a pretty long pre test lesson, it was yet another lesson of just how to handle odd wx situations
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Yep, yep, yep, I forgot. You guys are right - been a while since I've worked a rotary craft. forgot about all that electrical charge being built up by the millons of moving parts.
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Rain and Lightning....
VFRPILOTPB.
You forgot to mention" and Lived to tell us all about it"
Maybe you could become a storm chaser???
I did on reflection feel happy that my instructor had given me the chance to get some experience of the awsome power from such a beast of a storm
You forgot to mention" and Lived to tell us all about it"
Maybe you could become a storm chaser???