Rescuer falls from helicopter (or harness)

[tecpilot]

Don't sweet keepin it in trim,

couldn't read "fairly insulting insinuations about other peoples professional abilities and experience".

This thread is developing inbound equipment.

for the sort of lift you describe, a Nato strop is still OK but you should use a second one under the knees so the casualty comes up horizontal

in the described case it wasn't "OK". That's without a question if you look at the result. It's easy to say "we have made thousends of missions with the strope, but in this case, it was only misfortune". That's not the way to step forward.

The likelyhood of one "falling out" of a Nato Strop I find quite laughable frankly as this is a massive slur to their abilities and knowledge.

That's absolutely right, but... if a MRT becomes unconcious, due to a strike during the hoist ops with trees or rocks, (rockfall induced by the downwash), or the helicopters takes a strong movement and reaction due to weather or technical problems, it could be possible to lost the MRT with a strop, not with other equipment.
I have no great experience in sea rescue but it wasn't part of the thread ("a MRT falls from a helicopter"). But i'm experienced in use of the NATO-strope both pilot and "load". And i'm in deep respect to all the SAR Crews and their daily work and experience.

[snaggletooth]

TecPilot,

The incident you describe with the unconscious lady falling from the strop simply wouldn't happen here due to the way we operate.

You stated that she lost consciousness on the way up to the a/c & was wet. I suspect that she lost consciousness due to Post Immersion Collapse, something we prevent by placing a second strop under the knees, thereby lifting the casualty in a horizontal position & avoiding the problem altogether.

Furthermore, unlike the scenario you describe, the casualty would be placed in the strops by a winchman/aircrewman. He would then accompany the casualty during the lift to the aircraft. Were any problem to develop the winchman can easily tighten the strops around the casualty, or use a physical grip. After 9 years as a Winchman and thousands of lifts, from both mountainous & maritime environments, I have not experienced even ONE problem with this tried, tested & reliable piece of equipment. Believe me, if we found a problem we would amend our SOPs.

Your comments are unfounded Sir, though I accept well intentioned. It is always useful to see how other agencies & nationalities operate to achieve the same end. However one only has to look at the huge diversity of SOPs adopted to realize there are many ways to 'skin the cat'


No one can know for sure yet, but it is likely that the injured MRT member was either only partially in the strop (i.e. on the ground taking the strop off) and was pulled off the side of the hill by the a/cs unscheduled & sporty departure, or he made a conscious decision to get out of the strop & accept a fall rather than accompany the a/c and suffer even more serious injuries.

Anyone know how the injured party is doing? Last I heard he'd been transferred to Manchester.

I have the Honour to be, Sir,

Yadayadayadayada...

[Obs cop]

Well put Snaggletooth.

[tecpilot]

Were any problem to develop the winchman can easily tighten the strops around the casualty, or use a physical grip

That's the problem in the described german accident. Unexperienced crewman tried to catch the unconscious and slipping lady by her arms, instead putting her arms down securing the strop. A human error of course, but may be avoidable with a rescue nappy.

[Obs cop]

Bringing human error into the circumstances opens a whole new arena. No piece of equipment is idiot-proof as no matter what piece of kit is on the end of the winch cable, it will only ever be as good as the person working it.

Any means of attaching a person to a cable and winching them to an aircraft is hazardous. Granted, different methods have different advantages and disadvantages, but no matter how well you design something, someone somewhere will get it wrong. That does not always mean the equipment is the link in the chain that was at fault.

IMHO the more complicated you make things, the greater the likelyhood something will ruin the day. The biggest single advantage of the Nato Strop is its simplicity of use.

Obs cop

[snaggletooth]

Obs cop,

You sound like a fellow advocate of the KISS principle

I know I can foook up in spades, so I like 'simple'.

But you're right; someone, someday, somewhere, somehow will make a porcine aural organ of even the simplest thing...

[Obs cop]

Snaggletooth,

I believe in 2 main things;

1. KISS
2. If something bads gonna happen, it's gonna happen when I'm doing it

Just my opinion but there we are.

Obs cop

[sargod]

To put the story straight the MRT member was on top of the rock outcrop as the tip strike occured, he attempted to get out of the strop but was pulled/lost his balance and fell 40ft, the cab then auto'd 1500ft to the valley floor.