Helicopters and models (Thereof).
Iconoclast
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Caveat emptor
To: Bert Sousa
Bader makes nice models but they are vastly overpriced.
Here is a cost comparison which is typical for the entire range made by Bader.
Toys & Models Boeing 747 in 1:200 $89.95 USD
Bader models Boeing 747 in 1:200 $229.99 USD
Toys & Models Boeing 747 in 1:100 $299.95 USD
Bader models Boeing 747 in 1:100 $499.00 USD
Toys & Models prices are often discounted and Bader Models prices are not.
Aside from shooting my mouth off on this forum and working as an RMS consultant I have been selling models since 1988.
Bader makes nice models but they are vastly overpriced.
Here is a cost comparison which is typical for the entire range made by Bader.
Toys & Models Boeing 747 in 1:200 $89.95 USD
Bader models Boeing 747 in 1:200 $229.99 USD
Toys & Models Boeing 747 in 1:100 $299.95 USD
Bader models Boeing 747 in 1:100 $499.00 USD
Toys & Models prices are often discounted and Bader Models prices are not.
Aside from shooting my mouth off on this forum and working as an RMS consultant I have been selling models since 1988.
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I think I've already adequately displayed my complete lack of understanding of model aircraft, but without wishing to sound like a complete philistine
The R22 model made by Robinson looks *way* better than the picture on the Bader website of their incarnation, I think it must be the clear bubble or something
The R22 model made by Robinson looks *way* better than the picture on the Bader website of their incarnation, I think it must be the clear bubble or something
Iconoclast
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Deja vu all over again
To: charlie s charlie
The R-22 model is not made by Robinson. It is made by Toys and Models and sells for around USD $ 120.00. The Bader model of the R-22 is around USD $ 349.99
The Bader model is solid mahogany where the Toys and Models R-22 is cast in resin, has a clear canopy and the interior is furnished.
The R22 model made by Robinson looks *way* better than the picture on the Bader website of their incarnation, I think it must be the clear bubble or something
The Bader model is solid mahogany where the Toys and Models R-22 is cast in resin, has a clear canopy and the interior is furnished.
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Well I shall take this opportunity to be educated in another aspect of aviation
You say that die cast models tend to be cheap and mass produced; the better ones are made of wood or resin.
The resin T&M model has the interior furnished and a clear canopy, but is 3 times cheaper than the wooden Bader model. Is this difference in price solely down to overpricing of Bader, or are wood models generally better than resin models?
You say that die cast models tend to be cheap and mass produced; the better ones are made of wood or resin.
The resin T&M model has the interior furnished and a clear canopy, but is 3 times cheaper than the wooden Bader model. Is this difference in price solely down to overpricing of Bader, or are wood models generally better than resin models?
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Lu
Does it cost a lot more to have a model painted in a specific colour scheme and markings?
Do you know anywhere in North America which does this?
There's a place near Heathrow which does, but they supply mainly to airlines and other aviation companies so their prices are astronomic even for 'standard' non-personalised models.
Does it cost a lot more to have a model painted in a specific colour scheme and markings?
Do you know anywhere in North America which does this?
There's a place near Heathrow which does, but they supply mainly to airlines and other aviation companies so their prices are astronomic even for 'standard' non-personalised models.
Iconoclast
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In response to:
To: charlie s charlie
There are some die cast models that are quite good and contain good detail. Corgi an English firm makes some very good helicopter models and they are reasonably priced, (60-80 USD you make the conversion to GBP or Euros). On models like the Bell 47 as good as Corgi is they can’t get the tubular structure in scale. This is true for many die cast models. From ten feet away they look good. But up close the purist can detect the flaws. I have a Corgi USN Seaking and it is really nice.
I have on order a P-51 that is die cast. It costs about $180 USD. It has removable cowling showing the Merlin engine and access panels that open to show the ammunition feeding the 50 Cal. machine guns. The canopy slides back to show a fully detailed interior down to the gunsight. This type of model is one of a limited edition of 5000 and is a collector’s item. Some companies take the time and effort to put out a good product.
Regarding wood v resin models. The resin models are cast from a mold, which reflects a master model. Resin models can be truer to scale relative to thickness of the wing at various stations as well as the empenage. Depending on the production run they are usually made one at a time. Wood models depending on the size of the company use machinery to shape the fuselage and wings/tails. They are finish sanded using metal templates. Smaller companies and custom builder make their models from scratch by hand usually using kiln-dried mahogany.
Regarding Bader models they have been overpriced from the very beginning. Once a model is made and fully painted you can not tell the difference between a resin and a wood model. Toys and Models make models of resin, wood and injection molded plastic depending on the projected production run.
To; Heliport
The "place near Heathrow" is located at the Sheraton Skyline Hotel, which is very near Heathrow. I don't know if he is still involved in the operation of what used to be called Executive Display Models but Brian Austria-Tomkins offered the very best custom made models. His small civil aircraft and helicopters had fully furnished interiors, Full instrument panels; controls and the interiors matched the original aircraft. I have seen their catalog and it seems that they no longer offer this service. There is another English company that provides models to the airlines and airframe manufacturers and they are extremely well made. Their name is Space Models. I'm sorry but I do not know where they are located.
To answer your other question there are two firms that offer custom building of aircraft. In order of quality there is Micro West
Their address is 955 North Eckhoff, Orange, California 92667.
Their prices are getting higher but you get what you pay for. The other is Griffin Aerospace. They bought out Anderson Fine Scale Replicas. They discarded all of the assets of Anderson and in doing so they eliminated the competition. In absorbing Anderson they also discarded Anderson quality so Griffin Models are not the equal of the former Anderson. (My opinion). There is a third firm that is not worth mentioning.
If you go on the internet under scale models most of the companies say that they make the models but in most cases they sell Toys and Models products or use the custom building capabilities of Micro West, Griffin Aerospace or some free lance outfits from Indonesia or the Philippines.
There is a recent start-up here in Quebec that sells Mahogany models that have resin inserts for all the transparencies and the models are finished with a clear coat of polyurethane. They are beautiful. I have four of them and when friends see them they are more impressed with them that most of my other models.
Then there is Jerry Hall. His models are exquisite and finished to the smallest detail. When he can get to it he will be making a 1:24 scale HO3S-1G for me in Coast Guard colors.
There are some die cast models that are quite good and contain good detail. Corgi an English firm makes some very good helicopter models and they are reasonably priced, (60-80 USD you make the conversion to GBP or Euros). On models like the Bell 47 as good as Corgi is they can’t get the tubular structure in scale. This is true for many die cast models. From ten feet away they look good. But up close the purist can detect the flaws. I have a Corgi USN Seaking and it is really nice.
I have on order a P-51 that is die cast. It costs about $180 USD. It has removable cowling showing the Merlin engine and access panels that open to show the ammunition feeding the 50 Cal. machine guns. The canopy slides back to show a fully detailed interior down to the gunsight. This type of model is one of a limited edition of 5000 and is a collector’s item. Some companies take the time and effort to put out a good product.
Regarding wood v resin models. The resin models are cast from a mold, which reflects a master model. Resin models can be truer to scale relative to thickness of the wing at various stations as well as the empenage. Depending on the production run they are usually made one at a time. Wood models depending on the size of the company use machinery to shape the fuselage and wings/tails. They are finish sanded using metal templates. Smaller companies and custom builder make their models from scratch by hand usually using kiln-dried mahogany.
Regarding Bader models they have been overpriced from the very beginning. Once a model is made and fully painted you can not tell the difference between a resin and a wood model. Toys and Models make models of resin, wood and injection molded plastic depending on the projected production run.
To; Heliport
The "place near Heathrow" is located at the Sheraton Skyline Hotel, which is very near Heathrow. I don't know if he is still involved in the operation of what used to be called Executive Display Models but Brian Austria-Tomkins offered the very best custom made models. His small civil aircraft and helicopters had fully furnished interiors, Full instrument panels; controls and the interiors matched the original aircraft. I have seen their catalog and it seems that they no longer offer this service. There is another English company that provides models to the airlines and airframe manufacturers and they are extremely well made. Their name is Space Models. I'm sorry but I do not know where they are located.
To answer your other question there are two firms that offer custom building of aircraft. In order of quality there is Micro West
Their address is 955 North Eckhoff, Orange, California 92667.
Their prices are getting higher but you get what you pay for. The other is Griffin Aerospace. They bought out Anderson Fine Scale Replicas. They discarded all of the assets of Anderson and in doing so they eliminated the competition. In absorbing Anderson they also discarded Anderson quality so Griffin Models are not the equal of the former Anderson. (My opinion). There is a third firm that is not worth mentioning.
If you go on the internet under scale models most of the companies say that they make the models but in most cases they sell Toys and Models products or use the custom building capabilities of Micro West, Griffin Aerospace or some free lance outfits from Indonesia or the Philippines.
There is a recent start-up here in Quebec that sells Mahogany models that have resin inserts for all the transparencies and the models are finished with a clear coat of polyurethane. They are beautiful. I have four of them and when friends see them they are more impressed with them that most of my other models.
Then there is Jerry Hall. His models are exquisite and finished to the smallest detail. When he can get to it he will be making a 1:24 scale HO3S-1G for me in Coast Guard colors.
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Lu
As to the pricing. I agree they are expensive. They had a big discount at the HAI show which put them in line pretty good. But as I said I have a few custom models, and I saw some of their products with my company colors and numbers. Bader does quality stuff.
I guess you get what you pay for......
As to the pricing. I agree they are expensive. They had a big discount at the HAI show which put them in line pretty good. But as I said I have a few custom models, and I saw some of their products with my company colors and numbers. Bader does quality stuff.
I guess you get what you pay for......
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Thanks for the information Lu.
BTW, I knew where the shop was but their prices are so high I didn't feel like doing anything which might help their sales.
You say you have their price list. Just as a matter of interest, how do their prices compare with those in the US/Canada for the same models?
The problem with UK prices generally is that 'you get what you pay for' only relative to other UK prices. Most things are £ for $ or worse, compared with US prices.
BTW, I knew where the shop was but their prices are so high I didn't feel like doing anything which might help their sales.
You say you have their price list. Just as a matter of interest, how do their prices compare with those in the US/Canada for the same models?
The problem with UK prices generally is that 'you get what you pay for' only relative to other UK prices. Most things are £ for $ or worse, compared with US prices.
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Lu,
Do you know where I could order a TH-57 in U.S. Navy training colors in 1/32 scale? All the ones I have found are way to large, and look out of place with my 1/32 scale Huey, Black Hawk, Jayhawk, and MH-68A Sting Ray. Any advice you have would be most appreciated. Thanks!
Do you know where I could order a TH-57 in U.S. Navy training colors in 1/32 scale? All the ones I have found are way to large, and look out of place with my 1/32 scale Huey, Black Hawk, Jayhawk, and MH-68A Sting Ray. Any advice you have would be most appreciated. Thanks!
Iconoclast
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Price comparison
Heliport
Here are some comparison prices for Toys and Models products. US v. UK
B-377 Strato cruiser. US $119.95 UK price 119.95 GBP
B-314 Dixie clipper US $119.95 UK Price 119.95 GBP
B-707-320 US $139.95 UK price 139.95 GBP
I believe the difference covers the shipping from the USA. In most cases these same models are discounted by US sellers by 15% or more. If you bought them from a US supplier you would have to pay customs shipping and VAT so they are cheaper in the UK.
It appears that Brian Austria-Tomkins' son is now running the shop.
In looking through their entire site I could find no reference to custom built models and the only 1:100 scale commercial models they have are made by Atlantic models of Miami, Florida.
They have models that are at present not available in the US or Canada and from looking at their prices they are not really out of line.
Here are some comparison prices for Toys and Models products. US v. UK
B-377 Strato cruiser. US $119.95 UK price 119.95 GBP
B-314 Dixie clipper US $119.95 UK Price 119.95 GBP
B-707-320 US $139.95 UK price 139.95 GBP
I believe the difference covers the shipping from the USA. In most cases these same models are discounted by US sellers by 15% or more. If you bought them from a US supplier you would have to pay customs shipping and VAT so they are cheaper in the UK.
It appears that Brian Austria-Tomkins' son is now running the shop.
In looking through their entire site I could find no reference to custom built models and the only 1:100 scale commercial models they have are made by Atlantic models of Miami, Florida.
They have models that are at present not available in the US or Canada and from looking at their prices they are not really out of line.
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Lu
"I believe the difference covers the shipping from the USA"
US - $139.95 and UK - £139.95
Do the math.
Our British friends are being charged $256 (£139.95) for something which costs $139.95 (max) in America.
Even if they had to pay their Value Tax and shipping, they could still buy it on the net for less than a £100, a saving of £39.95 on the British price.
If they get the 15% discount you said, it would cost them less than £90.
If they buy on a visit to America, the same product will cost them only £76 - not much more than half the UK price.
Or £65 if they get 15% discount which is less than half what they'd pay in England
"I believe the difference covers the shipping from the USA"
US - $139.95 and UK - £139.95
Do the math.
Our British friends are being charged $256 (£139.95) for something which costs $139.95 (max) in America.
Even if they had to pay their Value Tax and shipping, they could still buy it on the net for less than a £100, a saving of £39.95 on the British price.
If they get the 15% discount you said, it would cost them less than £90.
If they buy on a visit to America, the same product will cost them only £76 - not much more than half the UK price.
Or £65 if they get 15% discount which is less than half what they'd pay in England
Iconoclast
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In response to;;;;;
To: HeloEagle
You can contact Griffin Aerospace at HTTP://griffinaerospace.com/
They do custom building to any specified scale. Log onto their website to see samples of their work.
I don't know if Micro West builds models in 1:32nd scale or not however they do have 206 models that can be painted up to your requirements. Contact them at 1-714-771-2521
To: Bronx
When youse is right youse is right. I was thinking along the lines of US v. Canadian
You can contact Griffin Aerospace at HTTP://griffinaerospace.com/
They do custom building to any specified scale. Log onto their website to see samples of their work.
I don't know if Micro West builds models in 1:32nd scale or not however they do have 206 models that can be painted up to your requirements. Contact them at 1-714-771-2521
To: Bronx
When youse is right youse is right. I was thinking along the lines of US v. Canadian
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Unfortunately civilian helos are not that popular in terms of modelling. Revell Germany released a thoroughly charming little EC-135 in 72nd a couple years ago, and have a 72nd EC-145 listed for this year. They also own the old Matchbox BK-117 and AS-365 moulds, not fantastic but still buildable little kits. They have also done a 32nd BO-105, BK-117 and EC-135 to date. Other than that, for the most part it's strictly military. Ukranian Ltd run company A-Model are also releasing lots of kits of the Kamov co-axials in 72nd , but these are aimed at the enthusiast market rather than the casual buyer
You may want to check out this forum:-
Heli-Kit News
Ask away, someone on there will know what you want to know!
You may want to check out this forum:-
Heli-Kit News
Ask away, someone on there will know what you want to know!
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Tidbit of info on Lu's AH-1W model.
The aircraft from which the model was made is alive and well and now flying at Pax River as a chase aircraft for AH-1Z and UH-1Y flight test.
The aircraft from which the model was made is alive and well and now flying at Pax River as a chase aircraft for AH-1Z and UH-1Y flight test.
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Lu writes:You can contact Griffin Aerospace at HTTP://griffinaerospace.com/
They do custom building to any specified scale. Log onto their website to see samples of their work.
I have one that was made by Griffin. I had a Long Ranger done in Company colors. www.aircenterhelicopters.com They did a wonderful job and cheaper than Bader. Again both do good work.
Fred Griffin is a 412 driver who also used to fly for Air Center. He knows what Pilots like to see.
They do custom building to any specified scale. Log onto their website to see samples of their work.
I have one that was made by Griffin. I had a Long Ranger done in Company colors. www.aircenterhelicopters.com They did a wonderful job and cheaper than Bader. Again both do good work.
Fred Griffin is a 412 driver who also used to fly for Air Center. He knows what Pilots like to see.
I have just taken delivery of a couple of models via our resident iconoclast, Lu Zuckerman.
One is an Agusta A109, made of plastic with a clear canopy and detailed interior. The other is an S-76B, from solid wood and painted.
Both are excellent, have display stands, and look SO COOL on my side table. First kid to touch them gets fingers broken.
Thanks Lu!
One is an Agusta A109, made of plastic with a clear canopy and detailed interior. The other is an S-76B, from solid wood and painted.
Both are excellent, have display stands, and look SO COOL on my side table. First kid to touch them gets fingers broken.
Thanks Lu!
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Interesting thread - to be honest I'm surprised that so many members "care" about models.
I collect resin (not wooden) "factory" civilian helicopter models. So far my collection is very small - just one! (Huges Helicopters MD500E.) I have other models but they're all either metal or lower quality plastic specimens.
I monitor EBay for such things but they rarely come along. So if anyone has 1/24-ish to 1/20-ish resin models of: Bell 47/Jetranger/222/230/430, A109, BK/MBB, Schweizer 300x, Enstrom, Robinson, K-Max, MD***, anything tilt-rotor other than the V22, etc., please contact me if you want to part with such a thing at a reasonable price.
I am also interested in resin models of certain research (e.g. "X" series) aircraft.
thx,
Dave Blevins
San Jose, CA
I collect resin (not wooden) "factory" civilian helicopter models. So far my collection is very small - just one! (Huges Helicopters MD500E.) I have other models but they're all either metal or lower quality plastic specimens.
I monitor EBay for such things but they rarely come along. So if anyone has 1/24-ish to 1/20-ish resin models of: Bell 47/Jetranger/222/230/430, A109, BK/MBB, Schweizer 300x, Enstrom, Robinson, K-Max, MD***, anything tilt-rotor other than the V22, etc., please contact me if you want to part with such a thing at a reasonable price.
I am also interested in resin models of certain research (e.g. "X" series) aircraft.
thx,
Dave Blevins
San Jose, CA
Iconoclast
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Good things will come to those who seek them.
To: Dave Blevins
Dave check your PMs
Dave check your PMs