Becoming a professional pilot, and finding a job
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Thanks very much for the replies!.............I had a look at the threads you gave me, thank you very much for your effort there, however it all looks pretty grim.
I am applying for the RAF (pilot Scholarship) at the moment, in fact I shall be attending OASC Cranwell at the end of August. The only problem is that I could be rejected on the grounds of not having Officer potential or the like, the military seem to (from my experience) want your desire to become an Officer to precede being a pilot (which is merely your branch choice), which I suppose I can understand.
Although one thing, I didn't see much on the threads about Helo operators such Bond or Bristow, which I understand are big North Sea operators (correct me if I'm wrong). Does anyone know what their requirements are? Is it CPL(H) or do they want the full ATPL and Instrument Rating as well.......I suppose this is difficult to ask as requirement presumably fluctuate a great deal.
Cheers again
Meurig
PS irlandes - do you think its worth in that case doing an aerospace engineering degree and working as an Engineer for a large company or an MOD sub-contractor.
I mean I'd enjoy that as a subject although I've heard that its a lot of work, and I should be able to get the grades to do that course in Uni.
I am applying for the RAF (pilot Scholarship) at the moment, in fact I shall be attending OASC Cranwell at the end of August. The only problem is that I could be rejected on the grounds of not having Officer potential or the like, the military seem to (from my experience) want your desire to become an Officer to precede being a pilot (which is merely your branch choice), which I suppose I can understand.
Although one thing, I didn't see much on the threads about Helo operators such Bond or Bristow, which I understand are big North Sea operators (correct me if I'm wrong). Does anyone know what their requirements are? Is it CPL(H) or do they want the full ATPL and Instrument Rating as well.......I suppose this is difficult to ask as requirement presumably fluctuate a great deal.
Cheers again
Meurig
PS irlandes - do you think its worth in that case doing an aerospace engineering degree and working as an Engineer for a large company or an MOD sub-contractor.
I mean I'd enjoy that as a subject although I've heard that its a lot of work, and I should be able to get the grades to do that course in Uni.
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Meurig
Like yourself I considered the RAF and was put off by the "officer first, pilot second" view from RAF Biggin Hill OASC. I have often looked back (I'm now 31) and wondered if I wasn't being naive/short sighted in not pursuing that option and putting up with stuffy officer protocol (learning how to squash peas on the back of ones fork so as not to embarass oneself at dinner, didn't appeal to an 20yr old straight from a 2yr booze up at polytechinc).
If you want to fly that much go for the RAF/Navy/Army, if I had had a crystal ball I would have gone for the RAF, simply because of the flying training, the opportunites to travel the world and the type of machines you get to fly.
I'm now a self employed contract avionics design engineer on corporate jets and earn a good wage but still struggle to fly as much as I want to especially as I want my CPL(H) eventually.
The point you put about aeronautical engineering is a good one as my line of work interfacing avionics such as EGPWS, TCAS, FMSs, RVSM (definately not for helis) SSRs etc gives me an inciteful view as to how the systems interact and not just how to operate them (this will help in the CPL/ATPL ground exams).
Hope this is some help
Good luck
NigD
Like yourself I considered the RAF and was put off by the "officer first, pilot second" view from RAF Biggin Hill OASC. I have often looked back (I'm now 31) and wondered if I wasn't being naive/short sighted in not pursuing that option and putting up with stuffy officer protocol (learning how to squash peas on the back of ones fork so as not to embarass oneself at dinner, didn't appeal to an 20yr old straight from a 2yr booze up at polytechinc).
If you want to fly that much go for the RAF/Navy/Army, if I had had a crystal ball I would have gone for the RAF, simply because of the flying training, the opportunites to travel the world and the type of machines you get to fly.
I'm now a self employed contract avionics design engineer on corporate jets and earn a good wage but still struggle to fly as much as I want to especially as I want my CPL(H) eventually.
The point you put about aeronautical engineering is a good one as my line of work interfacing avionics such as EGPWS, TCAS, FMSs, RVSM (definately not for helis) SSRs etc gives me an inciteful view as to how the systems interact and not just how to operate them (this will help in the CPL/ATPL ground exams).
Hope this is some help
Good luck
NigD
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Meurig
The majority of pilots in the Army Air Corps are not officers. If the military lifestyle appeals, but you or others feel that you are not officer material, they are certainly worth a look. The downside, however, is that you would hve to spend some time (4 years?) on the ground before commencing flying training.
Bon chance!
The majority of pilots in the Army Air Corps are not officers. If the military lifestyle appeals, but you or others feel that you are not officer material, they are certainly worth a look. The downside, however, is that you would hve to spend some time (4 years?) on the ground before commencing flying training.
Bon chance!
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Meurig,
as for doing a degree, I would be reluctant to advise you on what to study. Bear in mind, that if the flying doesn't work out, then aerospace engineerig would be your career. If you like it, that's fine but to get through it and especially be good at it, you will have to like it.
If you are determined to be a pilot then obviously an aerospace background is going to be alot more useful than say an accounting degree. I have a mechanical engineering background and I find that it makes all those complex aerodynamics and numbers much easier for me. That said, there are plenty of guys out there who might struggle with the numbers, but who nevertheless make good instinctive pilots, whereas I'd be too busy with my sliderule to notice big, bad mountain coming up.
As for Bristow, I talked to them about six months ago before I started training. I believe they have a scholarship scheme. You need a PPL (H) and a class 1 medical to be eligible but I also believe they have hundreds of applications for very few places. If you're already qualified I think they ask for a CPL (H) and an IFR rating (not cheap!). Go to their website (www.bristowtraining.com) and send them an email. They told me to basically go away and try the self-improvement route.
Hope that helps,
Irlandés
as for doing a degree, I would be reluctant to advise you on what to study. Bear in mind, that if the flying doesn't work out, then aerospace engineerig would be your career. If you like it, that's fine but to get through it and especially be good at it, you will have to like it.
If you are determined to be a pilot then obviously an aerospace background is going to be alot more useful than say an accounting degree. I have a mechanical engineering background and I find that it makes all those complex aerodynamics and numbers much easier for me. That said, there are plenty of guys out there who might struggle with the numbers, but who nevertheless make good instinctive pilots, whereas I'd be too busy with my sliderule to notice big, bad mountain coming up.
As for Bristow, I talked to them about six months ago before I started training. I believe they have a scholarship scheme. You need a PPL (H) and a class 1 medical to be eligible but I also believe they have hundreds of applications for very few places. If you're already qualified I think they ask for a CPL (H) and an IFR rating (not cheap!). Go to their website (www.bristowtraining.com) and send them an email. They told me to basically go away and try the self-improvement route.
Hope that helps,
Irlandés
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I wouldn't be too thrown off about the Officer and Gentlemen thing, Meurig. I just had the privilege of attending a mess at an RAF base where the solemn black tie was fairly quickly replaced by a tall glass of whiskey, and the sight several very senior Officers (those left standing) blasting cannon balls out of improvised guns at targets across the room.
These fellows (rumor has it it was a helicopter squadron based in Cornwall....) were the absolute life of the party, and there was not a stuffed shirt in the bunch.
Meurig, don't sell yourself short. Go for the education, become an officer, get the best flight training on the planet, fly the biggest, most expensive hardware imaginable, have adventures across the globe, and then when you are old and bald, tell the world you DID IT!
I joined the US Army at 19 years old, and have had not one regret at all, period. Reach for it all, if you think you might want something, jump to it with both feet. Too many folks work for the Gas Company, filling Out Baskets with paper. Don't be one of them. The folks who hang around this web site are pilots who fly across deserts and seas, through ice and fog, and they, to a person, got there by grabbing the ring as it passed by.
These fellows (rumor has it it was a helicopter squadron based in Cornwall....) were the absolute life of the party, and there was not a stuffed shirt in the bunch.
Meurig, don't sell yourself short. Go for the education, become an officer, get the best flight training on the planet, fly the biggest, most expensive hardware imaginable, have adventures across the globe, and then when you are old and bald, tell the world you DID IT!
I joined the US Army at 19 years old, and have had not one regret at all, period. Reach for it all, if you think you might want something, jump to it with both feet. Too many folks work for the Gas Company, filling Out Baskets with paper. Don't be one of them. The folks who hang around this web site are pilots who fly across deserts and seas, through ice and fog, and they, to a person, got there by grabbing the ring as it passed by.
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Here here Nick!!
Go for it mate. Dont look for excuses to not even have a bash. What is there to lose? I echo Nick's sentiment (even with nowhere near the benefit of his experience - yet). I dont regret it one little bit and I'm madly squirreling away all these great experiences for a time when the memories might be all
I have.
Good luck!
Go for it mate. Dont look for excuses to not even have a bash. What is there to lose? I echo Nick's sentiment (even with nowhere near the benefit of his experience - yet). I dont regret it one little bit and I'm madly squirreling away all these great experiences for a time when the memories might be all
I have.
Good luck!
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If you want to fly helicopters that much, then being a crab 
is a small price to pay! I was in the Army myself, and took a short cut, by joining what is now the Really Lovely Corps and transferring across, as in those days the AAC were short-staffed (nobody over 5 foot high). They probably still are, but a lot of people found that joining the AAC direct was the s-l-o-w way to do it, although there is a risk they will send you back to counting socks.
Just ignore anyone who is a stuffed shirt in and out of the mess, and you can spot them outside because their hat looks new.
Good luck!
Phil
is a small price to pay! I was in the Army myself, and took a short cut, by joining what is now the Really Lovely Corps and transferring across, as in those days the AAC were short-staffed (nobody over 5 foot high). They probably still are, but a lot of people found that joining the AAC direct was the s-l-o-w way to do it, although there is a risk they will send you back to counting socks.Just ignore anyone who is a stuffed shirt in and out of the mess, and you can spot them outside because their hat looks new.
Good luck!
Phil
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I really can't argue with any of the 'Go Military' posters as at your age it would be the best career move.
But should you not succeed and decide to throw vast quantities of your and other peoples money at aviation would like to argue that a helicopter licence isn't more than a fixed wing one. It is a common mistake that many make.
Yes, it is more to fly a helicopter per hour than a comparable airplane but the Commercial licence for helicopters is issued with less flight hours than airplanes. So as a result they both cost about the same. OK you may only have a VFR Commercial helicopter licence against an IFR fixed wing one. But you are equally employable after completing your licence.
Looking at one of the large UK schools that have Helicopters and Airplanes the cost of the Integrated Commercial licences are 41,125 against 47,235. A rather large win in favour of Helicopters.
Which once you start getting paid a salary will be quickly eaten into as fixed wing pilots do seem to get paid more
But should you not succeed and decide to throw vast quantities of your and other peoples money at aviation would like to argue that a helicopter licence isn't more than a fixed wing one. It is a common mistake that many make.
Yes, it is more to fly a helicopter per hour than a comparable airplane but the Commercial licence for helicopters is issued with less flight hours than airplanes. So as a result they both cost about the same. OK you may only have a VFR Commercial helicopter licence against an IFR fixed wing one. But you are equally employable after completing your licence.
Looking at one of the large UK schools that have Helicopters and Airplanes the cost of the Integrated Commercial licences are 41,125 against 47,235. A rather large win in favour of Helicopters.
Which once you start getting paid a salary will be quickly eaten into as fixed wing pilots do seem to get paid more
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All u need to know about becoming a commercial helicopter pilot?
So far ive learnt a lot about becoming a fixed wing pilot/ airline pilot from the wannabes section and have found the info quite extensive. However i would like to know all the ins and outs about becoming a helicopter pilot.
Basicaly i want to know ;
1) How much does it cost to become employable
2) What are the different sort of career paths within helicopter flying
3) What sort of pay is involved
4) does the fixed wing ppl count towards the helicopter training at all
Are there any good books about that could explain all the possibilities and options available, Any good websites other than pprune?
I apologise for the general nature of this post but i am eager for info
Any advice much apreciated
Basicaly i want to know ;
1) How much does it cost to become employable
2) What are the different sort of career paths within helicopter flying
3) What sort of pay is involved
4) does the fixed wing ppl count towards the helicopter training at all
Are there any good books about that could explain all the possibilities and options available, Any good websites other than pprune?
I apologise for the general nature of this post but i am eager for info
Any advice much apreciated
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Just getting your licence is not enough - you need hours on top, and quality hours at that. One solution (thinking out of the box), if you had the kind of money needed burning a hole in your pocket, is to buy your own helicopter, fly your ar$e off and sell it afterwards, having obtained a PPL first, of course. You can self-study for the CPL exams (In Canada and USA, you would need a recommendation from an instructor first).
Not so sure about JARs, but they keep changing anyway. Whatever you do, get a class 1 medical first, as all the training in the world is useless without it. If I think of anything else I will edit this message. Good luck!
Message to mods: Could we have a FAQ section where this sort of basic question could be answered? I would be happy to contribute something!
phil
Not so sure about JARs, but they keep changing anyway. Whatever you do, get a class 1 medical first, as all the training in the world is useless without it. If I think of anything else I will edit this message. Good luck!
Message to mods: Could we have a FAQ section where this sort of basic question could be answered? I would be happy to contribute something!
phil
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rob,
The only operators I'm aware of that will hire you straight after your CPL are the North Sea Operators - though they have a lot of guys on their books right now so don't count it.
You can count up to 100hrs of your helicopter P1 time towards the 150hr requirement of a CPL(A). I suspect it's less the other way around but don't know. Theory exams wise, it's 3 extra to go from ATPL(H) to ATPL(A) and 1 in the other direction. That will change when they eventually create the bridging exams.
Most people probably instruct after the CPL(H). You need 300h before you can do the JAA FI course - pay is then around 40-50 gbp per hour from what I've seen.
You can become an FAA instructor (with a 2 year J1 visa) with about 150 hrs but most U.S. schools don't hire with less than 200hrs. Pay is around 15-35 usd per hour. In the busy schools you can get 700hrs or more a year.
Costs wise - about $50k USD full time - check out OATS and Helicopter Adventures
Hope that helps
The only operators I'm aware of that will hire you straight after your CPL are the North Sea Operators - though they have a lot of guys on their books right now so don't count it.
You can count up to 100hrs of your helicopter P1 time towards the 150hr requirement of a CPL(A). I suspect it's less the other way around but don't know. Theory exams wise, it's 3 extra to go from ATPL(H) to ATPL(A) and 1 in the other direction. That will change when they eventually create the bridging exams.
Most people probably instruct after the CPL(H). You need 300h before you can do the JAA FI course - pay is then around 40-50 gbp per hour from what I've seen.
You can become an FAA instructor (with a 2 year J1 visa) with about 150 hrs but most U.S. schools don't hire with less than 200hrs. Pay is around 15-35 usd per hour. In the busy schools you can get 700hrs or more a year.
Costs wise - about $50k USD full time - check out OATS and Helicopter Adventures
Hope that helps
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following on from the point paco made about FAQ for this type of question, a basis from which to start (at least in the UK anyway) may be something like this (copyright permitting)
http://www.bhab.demon.co.uk/helicopter_pilot.htm
what do the powers that be think?
http://www.bhab.demon.co.uk/helicopter_pilot.htm
what do the powers that be think?
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Rob
I'm not trying to deter people from answering your questions - far from it. But you'll find a lot of the information you need if you do a 'Search' of previous topics on this forum. People often miss it - look at the top line where there are a list of links starting with 'user cp'.
As Paco says, it's one of the FAQs.
Probably the most frequently asked question.
In a nutshell, the advice most commonly given on this forum is -
Obtaining your professional licence and building enough hours to get a job costs a fortune - consider the military route where you'll get outstanding training all paid for. It's not easy to get in because the competition and standards required are very high, but most things in life worth doing involve a challenge.
Sponsorship in the civvy world for your basic licence is virtually non-existent.
The pay isn't as good as flying a 747 for BA, but the enjoyment and freedom of being a professional helicopter pilot makes up for a lot.
Hit the 'Search' button and see how you get on.
Good Luck.
I'm not trying to deter people from answering your questions - far from it. But you'll find a lot of the information you need if you do a 'Search' of previous topics on this forum. People often miss it - look at the top line where there are a list of links starting with 'user cp'.
As Paco says, it's one of the FAQs.
Probably the most frequently asked question.
In a nutshell, the advice most commonly given on this forum is -
Obtaining your professional licence and building enough hours to get a job costs a fortune - consider the military route where you'll get outstanding training all paid for. It's not easy to get in because the competition and standards required are very high, but most things in life worth doing involve a challenge.
Sponsorship in the civvy world for your basic licence is virtually non-existent.
The pay isn't as good as flying a 747 for BA, but the enjoyment and freedom of being a professional helicopter pilot makes up for a lot.
Hit the 'Search' button and see how you get on.
Good Luck.
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I've split the thread the 'Would you do it again?' aspect deserves its own thread.
Please post any advice to our Wannabee here, and posts about whether you'd do it again on the new thread.
Thanks
Please post any advice to our Wannabee here, and posts about whether you'd do it again on the new thread.
Thanks
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Starting out in Helicopters
Hi,
Can anyone give me some advice as to where to get the best CPL(H) training?
I am considering training overseas and am contemplating
Heli-College in Canada and Choppers in South Africa.
Heli-College seems very professional and has comprehensive ground training. Still enquiring about Choppers.
They are cheaper and you do get more flying hours to the pound.
Would appreciate any advice!
Heli-boy
Can anyone give me some advice as to where to get the best CPL(H) training?
I am considering training overseas and am contemplating
Heli-College in Canada and Choppers in South Africa.
Heli-College seems very professional and has comprehensive ground training. Still enquiring about Choppers.
They are cheaper and you do get more flying hours to the pound.
Would appreciate any advice!
Heli-boy
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I trained at Heli-College. The flight instructor was kind, thoughtful, thorough, and very professional. I hope to be emulating some of his approach to flying. The ground school was also very comprehensive, and their computer-based study method was EXCELLENT preparation for the Transport Canada written test. Machines are clean and well maintained.
That said, I'm not sure that it wouldn't have been better to train at a "company school". The year I trained Vancouver Island Helicopters hired all 10/11 of it's students. Mind you, it sounds like they didn't get rehired the next year... Great Slave Helicopters in Yellowknife also does some hiring of it's students. Mind you, both these outfits operate turbines only, and there's just about zero chance that they'll put a 100hr pilot in the right-hand seat.
Make sure you get trained on a robbie, not a 47. That way you'll be better prepared for your first job.
Best of luck!
That said, I'm not sure that it wouldn't have been better to train at a "company school". The year I trained Vancouver Island Helicopters hired all 10/11 of it's students. Mind you, it sounds like they didn't get rehired the next year... Great Slave Helicopters in Yellowknife also does some hiring of it's students. Mind you, both these outfits operate turbines only, and there's just about zero chance that they'll put a 100hr pilot in the right-hand seat.
Make sure you get trained on a robbie, not a 47. That way you'll be better prepared for your first job.
Best of luck!
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heli training in south africa
hi there!
i trained at helibip/the helicopter people in south africa. they are based in JHB. great instructors, great weather, well maintained machines and safety always comes first.
...they do training in robbies
please contact me if you need more info.....
i trained at helibip/the helicopter people in south africa. they are based in JHB. great instructors, great weather, well maintained machines and safety always comes first.
...they do training in robbies
please contact me if you need more info.....
Last edited by Heliport; 29th Jul 2002 at 04:55.
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why did you edit my post heliport?
why did you edit my post heliport? i all i did was put in approx. prices. i actually copied the details from a thread i had replied to earlier in begining june somewhere. the post was called "hour building in SA" you didn't do anything to the thread then. why suddenly now?
thanks.....
thanks.....
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PPL training in South Africa?
Hi
I am thinking of taking my PPL in SA as it appears to be cheaper than elsewhere. Can anybody recommend a good training school out there? I have heard Helibap and NAC are good!
If that goes well I may look to take the JAA CPL (UK) when I get back home but understand that you can not apply for the course until you have 150 hrs. I am sure that this is one of those annoying FAQ's but can anyone tell me the alternatives available aside from just buying an extra 100 hours as to how I can raise my hours to that level.....
Any info much appreciated.
Thx
I am thinking of taking my PPL in SA as it appears to be cheaper than elsewhere. Can anybody recommend a good training school out there? I have heard Helibap and NAC are good!
If that goes well I may look to take the JAA CPL (UK) when I get back home but understand that you can not apply for the course until you have 150 hrs. I am sure that this is one of those annoying FAQ's but can anyone tell me the alternatives available aside from just buying an extra 100 hours as to how I can raise my hours to that level.....
Any info much appreciated.
Thx