Becoming a professional pilot, and finding a job
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Once you've got the PPL you have to build to 155 hours, including 100 P1, before you can do the CPL flying course, which is another 30 hours. You also need 5 night hours. Not sure if these can be included in the 155 but they are generally tagged on to the end of the 30 hour CPL course. Before you do the CPL flying course you will need to complete the theory exams.
Building from PPL to CPL generally requires you buy the hours. I don't know of anyone who had them paid for! In Europe, and probably most other places, you'll be lucky to get a job with a raw CPL. Most people go on to become an instructor which requires 300 hours under JAA. You'll most likely have to pay for every hour up to that point.
You mention a JAA CPL (UK). You will do the JAA theory exams and the JAA flying course and therefore receive an unrestricted JAA CPL (H) eligible for use in all JAA member states. I believe the UK restricted version, JAA CPL (H) (R), applies only to those who did the CAA national exams during the transition period between CAA and JAA systems when the JAA theory was not available but the JAA flying course had already replaced the CAA flying course.
Good luck.
Building from PPL to CPL generally requires you buy the hours. I don't know of anyone who had them paid for! In Europe, and probably most other places, you'll be lucky to get a job with a raw CPL. Most people go on to become an instructor which requires 300 hours under JAA. You'll most likely have to pay for every hour up to that point.
You mention a JAA CPL (UK). You will do the JAA theory exams and the JAA flying course and therefore receive an unrestricted JAA CPL (H) eligible for use in all JAA member states. I believe the UK restricted version, JAA CPL (H) (R), applies only to those who did the CAA national exams during the transition period between CAA and JAA systems when the JAA theory was not available but the JAA flying course had already replaced the CAA flying course.
Good luck.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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training in south africa
hi there.
i trained at helibip/the helicopter people in south africa. they are based in JHB. great instructors, great weather, well maintained machines and safety always comes first.
...they do training in robbies
could have posted the rates but i am not allowed..
...but you can view them on another thread called "Hourbuilding in SA" here on Rotorheads somewhere
please contact me if you need more info.....
i trained at helibip/the helicopter people in south africa. they are based in JHB. great instructors, great weather, well maintained machines and safety always comes first.
...they do training in robbies
could have posted the rates but i am not allowed..
...but you can view them on another thread called "Hourbuilding in SA" here on Rotorheads somewhere
please contact me if you need more info.....
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Up and coming (hopefully...)
Anyone out there have any pointers for those of us who want to end up as CPL(H) and eventually ATPL(H). It's damned expensive trying to pay for it yourself and no-one seems to want to help.
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Handyandyuk,
it seems you're getting a bit of a ragging from the boys. Don't pay any attention. They're just trying to see if you're thick-skinned enough to be a helicopter pilot. From my own experience that's more important than either the medical, the money, or the will!!
The bottom line is there's no easy way in but it's all been said before in previous posts and you should find all the information you need to help give you a picture of the ins and outs of the industry. Do a search both here and in the Wanabees forum. The second bottom line is that if you really, really (I mean really, really) want to do it, and if you have a medical you'll find a way. If you don't find a way then you don't really, really (and I mean really, really) want to do it.
Also I'm not sure if doing an hour a month is the best way of doing things. If I were you I'd save up for a few months and then do those few hours closer together, otherwise you'll spend each hour each month just trying to get back into the groove. That's just my opinion of course. Others may say differently.
Best of luck,
Irlandés
it seems you're getting a bit of a ragging from the boys. Don't pay any attention. They're just trying to see if you're thick-skinned enough to be a helicopter pilot. From my own experience that's more important than either the medical, the money, or the will!!
The bottom line is there's no easy way in but it's all been said before in previous posts and you should find all the information you need to help give you a picture of the ins and outs of the industry. Do a search both here and in the Wanabees forum. The second bottom line is that if you really, really (I mean really, really) want to do it, and if you have a medical you'll find a way. If you don't find a way then you don't really, really (and I mean really, really) want to do it.
Also I'm not sure if doing an hour a month is the best way of doing things. If I were you I'd save up for a few months and then do those few hours closer together, otherwise you'll spend each hour each month just trying to get back into the groove. That's just my opinion of course. Others may say differently.
Best of luck,
Irlandés
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Equip yourself...
...with as much information about the industry and various licences with authorities around the globe.
If you plan to do it here(UK) you WILL need a serious amount of dough and will have to do ATPL(H) (but that might change). I was lucky enough to release equity in my home to pay for my licence. That all seems easy now compared to finding a job in the industry - even ground crew! Now I`m selling the house to pay for more training/ratings. What I'm saying is, if you are serious you will do anything...absolutely anything to get there. Think about doing training abroad as its much cheaper and they do the CPL. But be prepared to find work abroad or spend more money to convert your licence to JAA and work in UK. Also, if you're of the right age and ilk consider the forces 'cos you`ll come out with ATPL and quite a few hours.
good luck
Decimal
If you plan to do it here(UK) you WILL need a serious amount of dough and will have to do ATPL(H) (but that might change). I was lucky enough to release equity in my home to pay for my licence. That all seems easy now compared to finding a job in the industry - even ground crew! Now I`m selling the house to pay for more training/ratings. What I'm saying is, if you are serious you will do anything...absolutely anything to get there. Think about doing training abroad as its much cheaper and they do the CPL. But be prepared to find work abroad or spend more money to convert your licence to JAA and work in UK. Also, if you're of the right age and ilk consider the forces 'cos you`ll come out with ATPL and quite a few hours.
good luck
Decimal
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The only cheap way left, if you're prepared to give up a few years of personal freedom and if you're qualified, is the military route. It's actually not too bad a way of getting there; you get a very thorough training and I hear the pay is pretty good too these days. As a bonus, you may be lucky and get to see some of the world as well. The downside is that you don't usually get to fly very much compared with a civilian job (though much of the flying you do may be more interesting) and you may get shot at (but that's also true of quite a few civilian jobs I've had in some of the more dangerous third world countries!). After, say 10 years you should have your ATPL(H) and have enough useful experience to get a job with one of the big three companies or maybe get into police/EMS operations.
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Thanks guys, I have to admit this is really confirming a lot of things I've already heard. Looks like I'll be after a serious lottery win.
As far as the forces route goes, I've done 10 years regular and now 7 as a reserve. At 33 I'm a tad too old and I can't even consider TA as I didn't serve as a pilot.
For those who wondered, I've been shot at and almost blown up; it's not all it's cracked up to be
Still, thanks again guys (and girls, if there are any lumpyjumper helo pilots).
As far as the forces route goes, I've done 10 years regular and now 7 as a reserve. At 33 I'm a tad too old and I can't even consider TA as I didn't serve as a pilot.
For those who wondered, I've been shot at and almost blown up; it's not all it's cracked up to be
Still, thanks again guys (and girls, if there are any lumpyjumper helo pilots).
The Original Whirly
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Andy,
People are being exceptionally negative because this is a bad time in the helicopter industry, at least in the UK. After Sept 11th last year, laid-off duel qualified airline pilots went back to their North Sea helo jobs, the North Sea operators stopped taking on new CPL(H)s, so people stayed in their instructing jobs so no room there. Hence no jobs for newly qualified helo pilots. But that could all change by the time you get that far, although there's no guarantee of it.
As to training, if you enjoy helicopter flying, enough to spend all your money doing it, you could carry on and see what happens. But don't RELY on having a career at the end of it. It might make more sense to save your money and do a JAR PPL(H) in the US though, over a short period of time. After that you could fly and hour build when you can afford it, without forgetting as much in between as you're likely to at the beginning. There are various other ways, as people have been saying. But let's face it, from any logical, sensible point of view, spending a fortune to qualify as a helicopter pilot in the present economic climate is totally stupid. Most of us do it because we love it.
Good luck ( from one of the relatively few...er... "lumpyjumper helo pilots"; thanks for realising that we just might exist. )
People are being exceptionally negative because this is a bad time in the helicopter industry, at least in the UK. After Sept 11th last year, laid-off duel qualified airline pilots went back to their North Sea helo jobs, the North Sea operators stopped taking on new CPL(H)s, so people stayed in their instructing jobs so no room there. Hence no jobs for newly qualified helo pilots. But that could all change by the time you get that far, although there's no guarantee of it.
As to training, if you enjoy helicopter flying, enough to spend all your money doing it, you could carry on and see what happens. But don't RELY on having a career at the end of it. It might make more sense to save your money and do a JAR PPL(H) in the US though, over a short period of time. After that you could fly and hour build when you can afford it, without forgetting as much in between as you're likely to at the beginning. There are various other ways, as people have been saying. But let's face it, from any logical, sensible point of view, spending a fortune to qualify as a helicopter pilot in the present economic climate is totally stupid. Most of us do it because we love it.
Good luck ( from one of the relatively few...er... "lumpyjumper helo pilots"; thanks for realising that we just might exist.
)
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Maybe I should clarify for those who are assuming I'm new to this flying stuff.... I already hold a PPL(H).
Given that no-one seems to want to employ me in my mechanical engineering role, I'm already using my fallback HGV licence (guaranteed work in the UK).
I'm looking to the area of about 5-7 years time, as I figure that's roughly how long it'll take to gain sufficient funds to undergo a CPL(H) course, whilst maintaining a degree of currency along the way.
I fly because I love it and the idea of being paid to enjoy myself sounds pretty damned good to me.
Changing the subject slightly, anyone know of a list of the 'aerobatic' manoeuvers that can safely be performed in a 22?
Given that no-one seems to want to employ me in my mechanical engineering role, I'm already using my fallback HGV licence (guaranteed work in the UK).
I'm looking to the area of about 5-7 years time, as I figure that's roughly how long it'll take to gain sufficient funds to undergo a CPL(H) course, whilst maintaining a degree of currency along the way.
I fly because I love it and the idea of being paid to enjoy myself sounds pretty damned good to me.
Changing the subject slightly, anyone know of a list of the 'aerobatic' manoeuvers that can safely be performed in a 22?
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Whirlybird,
you're the first person in a year who has had the courage to say right to my face that what I'm doing is totally stupid. Thank God for that! I though I was in a minority in that thinking!
Handyandyuk,
as for aerobatic manoeuvers, I don't believe that teetering rotor systems take too kindly to them and anything that would be theoretically attempted would have to stay in the positive-g category. No, I don't think you'll find to many proponents of aerobatics in a Robbi although I have heard it was rolled inadvertently on at least one occasion. A student overcontrolled in turbulence sending her into a roll. The instructor was too slow to react and she (the Robbi) went all the way over. Just as well apparently as late intervention could have made things a lot worse.
Me, I'll just stick to straight and level and leave the fancy stuff to the astronauts!
Irlandés
P.S. I do admit though it would be interesting to hear from someone really in the know just what she is capable of.
you're the first person in a year who has had the courage to say right to my face that what I'm doing is totally stupid. Thank God for that! I though I was in a minority in that thinking!
Handyandyuk,
as for aerobatic manoeuvers, I don't believe that teetering rotor systems take too kindly to them and anything that would be theoretically attempted would have to stay in the positive-g category. No, I don't think you'll find to many proponents of aerobatics in a Robbi although I have heard it was rolled inadvertently on at least one occasion. A student overcontrolled in turbulence sending her into a roll. The instructor was too slow to react and she (the Robbi) went all the way over. Just as well apparently as late intervention could have made things a lot worse.
Me, I'll just stick to straight and level and leave the fancy stuff to the astronauts!
Irlandés
P.S. I do admit though it would be interesting to hear from someone really in the know just what she is capable of.
Last edited by Irlandés; 1st Sep 2002 at 22:38.
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handyandyuk,
- the only LIST you get for the R22 is all the things you can/should NOT do. It's a great trainer, but certainly not an aircraft in which you would want to try your luck with aerobatic stunts.
- as for your chances with your further helo training: I am glad that the tone of the replies you got became more enthusiastic after the first 4. I personally started 4 years ago (age 32) and have had a job eversince my CPL. Besides striving to be the best pilot around (note: not the biggest macho) you need to know how to market yourself and connect with people in the industry. I think you got the best shot at all that in the US.
- as for female helicopter pilots like whirlybird: here in the US there is quite a number of them. Most of who have earned my respect through their solid performances. They are doing just as good a job at it as anybody else.
sp
- the only LIST you get for the R22 is all the things you can/should NOT do. It's a great trainer, but certainly not an aircraft in which you would want to try your luck with aerobatic stunts.
- as for your chances with your further helo training: I am glad that the tone of the replies you got became more enthusiastic after the first 4. I personally started 4 years ago (age 32) and have had a job eversince my CPL. Besides striving to be the best pilot around (note: not the biggest macho) you need to know how to market yourself and connect with people in the industry. I think you got the best shot at all that in the US.
- as for female helicopter pilots like whirlybird: here in the US there is quite a number of them. Most of who have earned my respect through their solid performances. They are doing just as good a job at it as anybody else.
sp
Last edited by sierra-papa; 2nd Sep 2002 at 01:46.
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Could it just be that here in UK we, having a smaller country geographically, make far less use of helicopters, thus creating fewer posts. Add to that the gentle supply of ex AAC, RAF and RN pilots with lovely MoD supplied licences to convert to ATPL's and a shedload of experience. The realistic chances for a non military pilot aren't too good.
I dare say when finance permits, I'll slide off to the US and crank up some cheaper hours like so many others before me. In simple terms it all comes down to cash (that I don't have )
I dare say when finance permits, I'll slide off to the US and crank up some cheaper hours like so many others before me. In simple terms it all comes down to cash (that I don't have
)
The Original Whirly
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I don't know exactly how it works in the US. But when I was in Long Beach in April, hourbuilding (and having lots of expensive fun 
) low hours CPLs were getting work doing ferry flights and things like that. I know a young American woman who's now instructing, who said she's flown coast to coast in an R22 seven times! The first one she did for free, then she got expenses, then got paid. But who in the UK buys an R22 and then wants someone to fly it thousands of miles home for them? Just doesn't happen. Other people seemed to get a bit of freelance work, but when I tried phoning around here, soon after getting my CPL(H), one place told me it just wasn't worth it; he ended up spending too much on line checks etc, and it was more economic to have a couple of full time people. It doesn't seem to work that way in the US; people do bits and pieces and gradually build up hours and experience and credibility.
Anyway, I decided I'd be better off spending my time earning money, and getting more hours and an instructors rating. But now I gather that avenue's getting overcrowded too.
Irlandes, what I said was that we were stupid FROM ANY LOGICAL POINT OF VIEW. I don't regret doing it, not at all. It might work. And I'd rather have spent the money on helicopter flying than anything else I can think of. I want to know I gave it a try, not end up at 70 saying: "If only..." But I had the money - sort of anyway. Going into debt to do this isn't sensible in the UK at the present time.
) low hours CPLs were getting work doing ferry flights and things like that. I know a young American woman who's now instructing, who said she's flown coast to coast in an R22 seven times! The first one she did for free, then she got expenses, then got paid. But who in the UK buys an R22 and then wants someone to fly it thousands of miles home for them? Just doesn't happen. Other people seemed to get a bit of freelance work, but when I tried phoning around here, soon after getting my CPL(H), one place told me it just wasn't worth it; he ended up spending too much on line checks etc, and it was more economic to have a couple of full time people. It doesn't seem to work that way in the US; people do bits and pieces and gradually build up hours and experience and credibility.Anyway, I decided I'd be better off spending my time earning money, and getting more hours and an instructors rating. But now I gather that avenue's getting overcrowded too.
Irlandes, what I said was that we were stupid FROM ANY LOGICAL POINT OF VIEW. I don't regret doing it, not at all. It might work. And I'd rather have spent the money on helicopter flying than anything else I can think of. I want to know I gave it a try, not end up at 70 saying: "If only..." But I had the money - sort of anyway. Going into debt to do this isn't sensible in the UK at the present time.
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As far as lady pilots are concerned (I know both RW and plank drivers), the only practical difference I noticed compared to the male pilots is their voices are much clearer over the R/T. More frequent as well..
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Is anyone aware of statistics showing numbers of people who fly professionally on a CPL (H) versus number of CPL (H) awarded by the CAA? Or put another way proportionally how many people who get a UK or JAA CPL (H) never find a flying job? I get the impression that the odds may be worse in the UK than the US and elsewhere owing to the lack of opportunity in the UK to pick up relatively casual work to start with per Whirlybird's description.
HandyAndyUK, one thing is for certain there will never be an easy way to become a helo pilot. Given a fairly typical profile, when you're in your 20s you've got the time but you can't afford it. When you're in your 30s your wife (or other) and kids will demand some of your time, hamper mobility for that elusive first job and you still can't afford it without taking on enormous debt. In your 40s the kids need stability and moving to the bhundu for the first job is not a practical option, also you still can't afford it and you've got less time left to pay off the accumulated debt. In your 50s you're too old to get the first job (usually). In a nutshell it is not going to get any easier by waiting for tomorrow, if anything it just gets harder.
At the end of the day you'll never justify embarking on the venture from a reasoned position so it's not a decision for the head, it's a decision for the heart.
You don't regret what you've done only what you didn't do.
As ever you've got to be in to win.
HandyAndyUK, one thing is for certain there will never be an easy way to become a helo pilot. Given a fairly typical profile, when you're in your 20s you've got the time but you can't afford it. When you're in your 30s your wife (or other) and kids will demand some of your time, hamper mobility for that elusive first job and you still can't afford it without taking on enormous debt. In your 40s the kids need stability and moving to the bhundu for the first job is not a practical option, also you still can't afford it and you've got less time left to pay off the accumulated debt. In your 50s you're too old to get the first job (usually). In a nutshell it is not going to get any easier by waiting for tomorrow, if anything it just gets harder.
At the end of the day you'll never justify embarking on the venture from a reasoned position so it's not a decision for the head, it's a decision for the heart.
You don't regret what you've done only what you didn't do.
As ever you've got to be in to win.
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Its not a bed of roses for military pilots either! I've got 2500 quality hours, plenty of twin turbine time, I'm a IRI/IRE, NVGI etc, and I havent managed to get as far as an interview for a job yet!
Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but if I had a couple of hundred hours in a Robbie, I wouldnt be expecting too much too soon.
Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but if I had a couple of hundred hours in a Robbie, I wouldnt be expecting too much too soon.