Career Change
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Career Change
I am going to "retire" about 4 years time (I'm 45 now) from my current career, which is very well paid (lucky - I know).
I am starting a PPL(H) course at the end of Feb with a view to continuing on to CPL(H).
As I near completion of the CPL(H) I intend to buy a B206L (or similar). My wife and I then intend to move to Grenada where I intend to operate a charter/pleasure flight business.
Questions:
Is it sensible to run a fare paying passenger business on the back of a CPL i.e. is that enough experience / hours?
Would my JAR CPL be valid in Grenada or should I also get an FAA CPL?
Does anyone have any views as to whether I can make money out of such a business? Breaking even would probably be acceptable given I will be able to support myself from pension and investments. However I will not be wealthy enough to support a B206L that doesn’t at least pay for itself.
If any of that is stupid and really too naive for a professional pilots forum I apologise.
Thank you
Ian
I am starting a PPL(H) course at the end of Feb with a view to continuing on to CPL(H).
As I near completion of the CPL(H) I intend to buy a B206L (or similar). My wife and I then intend to move to Grenada where I intend to operate a charter/pleasure flight business.
Questions:
Is it sensible to run a fare paying passenger business on the back of a CPL i.e. is that enough experience / hours?
Would my JAR CPL be valid in Grenada or should I also get an FAA CPL?
Does anyone have any views as to whether I can make money out of such a business? Breaking even would probably be acceptable given I will be able to support myself from pension and investments. However I will not be wealthy enough to support a B206L that doesn’t at least pay for itself.
If any of that is stupid and really too naive for a professional pilots forum I apologise.
Thank you
Ian
"Just a pilot"
Before I started into something like this, I'd look to some business issues. First, could you get insurance coverage at any cost at that experience level?
Next, regulatory issues...
Next, cash reserve at first- even with the most accurate cost per hour estiomate, you gotta deal with service when required. On that line, who'd turn your wrenches and where?
The Long Ranger's a proven bird and probably the cheapest per seat in the 6-passenger class, if you need that many seats. I'd guess a good one and a sound business plan would give you a really good chance at doing what you want.
Next, regulatory issues...
Next, cash reserve at first- even with the most accurate cost per hour estiomate, you gotta deal with service when required. On that line, who'd turn your wrenches and where?
The Long Ranger's a proven bird and probably the cheapest per seat in the 6-passenger class, if you need that many seats. I'd guess a good one and a sound business plan would give you a really good chance at doing what you want.
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Don't know about Grenada, but you require an air operators certificate to conduct any commercial operation in most countries.
This is not a big problem to obtain but you need to have a Chief Pilot whom needs to have a few hundred hours of experience (the amount of experience goes up with the number of aircraft).
Chances are you will not have the experience required to be the Chief Pilot of your company and therefore will have to employ somebody.
Personally, you would be better off getting some more exposure to the aviation industry before committing large funds of dosh.
You may even be better off buying an established company and taking it from there.
All the best.
This is not a big problem to obtain but you need to have a Chief Pilot whom needs to have a few hundred hours of experience (the amount of experience goes up with the number of aircraft).
Chances are you will not have the experience required to be the Chief Pilot of your company and therefore will have to employ somebody.
Personally, you would be better off getting some more exposure to the aviation industry before committing large funds of dosh.
You may even be better off buying an established company and taking it from there.
All the best.
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Well it seems to be a very nice idea, and good luck.
A few points coming from the Caribbean.
Grenada is overseen by the Antigua DCA who is responsible for OECS. (Organisation of Eastern Caribbean States).
Their requirements for a one ship start up are similar to those of a start up airline (thanks to the British CAA heritage) - it has crushed quite a few operators before they have even got airborne. AOC's, C's of A and licensing are all processed by the Antigua DCA for Grenada and you better make sure that you've dotted all your i's and crossed all your t's.
Secondly, if you look at the market and apply the numbers, you'll find that Grenada won't support an operation. With under 200,000 tourists per annum, and an irregular cruise ship industry you'll have a hard time staying afloat.
Also to get that business you'll need a 2,000 hour pilot x 2, huge PL insurance, plus which with the lack of existing infrastructure to support a heli-op, a large dose of capital to start out.
Having said that, if that's your dream - go for it!!
Just let me know where to send the bill
A few points coming from the Caribbean.
Grenada is overseen by the Antigua DCA who is responsible for OECS. (Organisation of Eastern Caribbean States).
Their requirements for a one ship start up are similar to those of a start up airline (thanks to the British CAA heritage) - it has crushed quite a few operators before they have even got airborne. AOC's, C's of A and licensing are all processed by the Antigua DCA for Grenada and you better make sure that you've dotted all your i's and crossed all your t's.
Secondly, if you look at the market and apply the numbers, you'll find that Grenada won't support an operation. With under 200,000 tourists per annum, and an irregular cruise ship industry you'll have a hard time staying afloat.
Also to get that business you'll need a 2,000 hour pilot x 2, huge PL insurance, plus which with the lack of existing infrastructure to support a heli-op, a large dose of capital to start out.
Having said that, if that's your dream - go for it!!
Just let me know where to send the bill
Good luck to you and what a great position to be in!
But you'll have to go back to work in this windlashed country if you aren't fully prepared and it collapses, I think.
Why don't you look at an existing aviation business over there and get a toe hold into it, then take it from there, perhaps.
D0+ has the right idea
But you'll have to go back to work in this windlashed country if you aren't fully prepared and it collapses, I think.
Why don't you look at an existing aviation business over there and get a toe hold into it, then take it from there, perhaps.
D0+ has the right idea
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Do you really need an AOC in accordance with JAR OPS 3 if you are only conducting aerial work and land (hopefully) at the same place as departure? This type of flying is not covered in JAR OPS 3 but is regulated on national basis.
I looked up the regulations concerning helicopter tour flying in Denmark and you are good to become the chief of the operation if you have 150 h PIC time.
I have no idea about the regulations in Antigua but if it can be done in Europe I will be amazed if it will be even more regulated someplace else. Tour flying is usually the easiest type of operation in regards to the approval process.
If you are having problem with insurance why not consider an R44? The passengers have a great view and you know on forehand how much it will cost.
Good luck with your operation. One thing though, I don't have any personal experience on this matter so please don't quote me on this!
I looked up the regulations concerning helicopter tour flying in Denmark and you are good to become the chief of the operation if you have 150 h PIC time.
I have no idea about the regulations in Antigua but if it can be done in Europe I will be amazed if it will be even more regulated someplace else. Tour flying is usually the easiest type of operation in regards to the approval process.
If you are having problem with insurance why not consider an R44? The passengers have a great view and you know on forehand how much it will cost.
Good luck with your operation. One thing though, I don't have any personal experience on this matter so please don't quote me on this!
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I think one of the main things to point out here is that if this thread was started by a poor young wannabee pilot, with no helicopter flying experience whatsoever, the attitude of the respondents would be totally different.The fact that you say you have ££'s seems to have generated a positive opinion.
1. You haven't even started your private pilot training.(Your first 15 hrs will be one of the most humbling experiences).You will change your great ideas often.
2. You may not have much aptitude for flying helicopters.This happens rarely as most completely uncoordinated handless people don't bother to try to learn (self vetting),but occassionally someone will persevere,a good instructor/school should point this out and not just keep taking your copious amounts of money.
3. Most public charter helicopter operations would be looking for at least 1000 hours experience before hiring you as a pilot.The reason for this is usually insurance.The reason the insurance companies are so picky about the hourly requirements are that as a low time pilot you are more likely to have a serious incident with low hours.Most civilians pilots build this flying experience the hard way through flight instruction,(probably the most common),cattle mustering ,flying for tuna boats,or some even manage to get into the left seat of a heavy for a few years.
4.If a 45 year old wannabee wrote in saying 'he wanted to be a commercial pilot' and 'was he too old?' My answer would depend on the attitude of the person.Bottom line is that you have to be super keen,you have to really want to do it.I've heard of too many horror stories well off professionals with bad attitudes ie.not studying the books,not thinking about safety 110% of the time,not respecting there instructors advice.
You've got a hell of a lot ahead of you.Please don't think it'll be a walk in the park.
Best of luck
Bladerunner
1. You haven't even started your private pilot training.(Your first 15 hrs will be one of the most humbling experiences).You will change your great ideas often.
2. You may not have much aptitude for flying helicopters.This happens rarely as most completely uncoordinated handless people don't bother to try to learn (self vetting),but occassionally someone will persevere,a good instructor/school should point this out and not just keep taking your copious amounts of money.
3. Most public charter helicopter operations would be looking for at least 1000 hours experience before hiring you as a pilot.The reason for this is usually insurance.The reason the insurance companies are so picky about the hourly requirements are that as a low time pilot you are more likely to have a serious incident with low hours.Most civilians pilots build this flying experience the hard way through flight instruction,(probably the most common),cattle mustering ,flying for tuna boats,or some even manage to get into the left seat of a heavy for a few years.
4.If a 45 year old wannabee wrote in saying 'he wanted to be a commercial pilot' and 'was he too old?' My answer would depend on the attitude of the person.Bottom line is that you have to be super keen,you have to really want to do it.I've heard of too many horror stories well off professionals with bad attitudes ie.not studying the books,not thinking about safety 110% of the time,not respecting there instructors advice.
You've got a hell of a lot ahead of you.Please don't think it'll be a walk in the park.
Best of luck
Bladerunner
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Thank you
Thank you all for taking the time and trouble to post replies.
Bladerunner
“well off professionals”, I know what you mean. I have a thirst for knowledge (I recently gained an MBA by distance learing) and am more likely to over-study (if there is such a thing). Also I understand the relevance of critical safety issues for survival (I’m a qualified Diver).
Sandy Helmet
Thank you for some really useful information. I understand your pointregarding the limitations of the market size.
All the others
There are a lot of issues to consider but then I’ve got a few years to consider them. I'm not put off. I'm proud to be a "self made man" and I hope the qualities that have made me this (self belief, optimism and perseverance) will see me through. In any event I’ve always found its best to strive for a dream and try you best to live it, but don’t be heartbroken if you fail.
Thanks once again
Bladerunner
“well off professionals”, I know what you mean. I have a thirst for knowledge (I recently gained an MBA by distance learing) and am more likely to over-study (if there is such a thing). Also I understand the relevance of critical safety issues for survival (I’m a qualified Diver).
Sandy Helmet
Thank you for some really useful information. I understand your pointregarding the limitations of the market size.
All the others
There are a lot of issues to consider but then I’ve got a few years to consider them. I'm not put off. I'm proud to be a "self made man" and I hope the qualities that have made me this (self belief, optimism and perseverance) will see me through. In any event I’ve always found its best to strive for a dream and try you best to live it, but don’t be heartbroken if you fail.
Thanks once again
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One more thing - the Caymans require a 60% Caymanian status partner - it may be worth checking for that in Grenada. Also, you could look at liaison with the local police for drugs, etc - another source of income
Low hours wouln't bother me about hiring a prospective pilot - low-timers tend to be more careful! I have found it's not necessarily the insurance companies that put them off, but the customers, and pleasure fliers won't complain if you don't tell them! (loads of companies in Canada are insured for 100-hour pilots, but they still won't hire them).
Good Luck!
Phil
Low hours wouln't bother me about hiring a prospective pilot - low-timers tend to be more careful! I have found it's not necessarily the insurance companies that put them off, but the customers, and pleasure fliers won't complain if you don't tell them! (loads of companies in Canada are insured for 100-hour pilots, but they still won't hire them).
Good Luck!
Phil
