Helicopter Radio Traffic (UK)
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Helicopter Questions (UK)
Hoping someone can help me with this...
I'm working on a project, and am looking for the differences in radio traffic for helicopters as compared to fixed wing, mainly at airports which use Helicopter Aiming Points (I would assume airports that require helos to use the runways would use the same procedures as fixed wing?)
For example, what would the correct phraseology be for a helicopter coming into Stansted or Heathrow for the HAP? Or for a helicopter departure from same?
Thanks in advance for the help!
I'm working on a project, and am looking for the differences in radio traffic for helicopters as compared to fixed wing, mainly at airports which use Helicopter Aiming Points (I would assume airports that require helos to use the runways would use the same procedures as fixed wing?)
For example, what would the correct phraseology be for a helicopter coming into Stansted or Heathrow for the HAP? Or for a helicopter departure from same?
Thanks in advance for the help!
Good question. . . I have looked and it doesn't appear to be written down anywhere. You just kinda make it up as you go along. Ask for joining intructions and your given the usual reply then you request something more specific like, 'to join at low level from the south'. If you sound like you know what you're talking about. . then your in! 
You'd get a better response if you posted on the 'Rotorheads'.
You'd get a better response if you posted on the 'Rotorheads'.
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emsgoof
I think Johe02 has got it right, from my limited experience anyway. It can very much depend on whether the airfield has much experience handling helicopters.
Flown into Blackpool, which has 2 helicopter schools there I think, and been told to come in low below circuit height and wait at the southern holding point, usually for a regional to take off, and then cross the main runway to the ramp etc etc.
Been into a few of the smaller airfield with no helicopter operations there at all (when you do land it causes a bit of a stir and some general mickey taking
) and been told to join at ****ft downwind for ** etc. Sometimes you can restate you are a helicopter and could you approach low level and hold north/east/south/west of the active runway. You sometimes get to, others times not.
NigD3
I think Johe02 has got it right, from my limited experience anyway. It can very much depend on whether the airfield has much experience handling helicopters.
Flown into Blackpool, which has 2 helicopter schools there I think, and been told to come in low below circuit height and wait at the southern holding point, usually for a regional to take off, and then cross the main runway to the ramp etc etc.
Been into a few of the smaller airfield with no helicopter operations there at all (when you do land it causes a bit of a stir and some general mickey taking
) and been told to join at ****ft downwind for ** etc. Sometimes you can restate you are a helicopter and could you approach low level and hold north/east/south/west of the active runway. You sometimes get to, others times not.NigD3
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Good question.
Cat amongst pigeons time......
It would be nice if ATC kept to standard (just like fixed wing please) phraseology for us rotary jocks.
However, quite often they seem to prefer to use terms like "Clear to set / put down" when "Clear land HAP" would be fine.
Also "Clear lift" seems to replace "Clear takeoff". I feel uncomfortable with this or similar terms. I usually make a point of replying with "Take Off, HAP."
Similarly, do ATC expect us to call "Runway vacated" if using it? I always try to do this (as I was obliged to do by the military) but it often seems to be greeted with some surprise.
Am I in error, Air Traffickers? I would be grateful to know. Ta.
Cat amongst pigeons time......
It would be nice if ATC kept to standard (just like fixed wing please) phraseology for us rotary jocks.
However, quite often they seem to prefer to use terms like "Clear to set / put down" when "Clear land HAP" would be fine.
Also "Clear lift" seems to replace "Clear takeoff". I feel uncomfortable with this or similar terms. I usually make a point of replying with "Take Off, HAP."
Similarly, do ATC expect us to call "Runway vacated" if using it? I always try to do this (as I was obliged to do by the military) but it often seems to be greeted with some surprise.
Am I in error, Air Traffickers? I would be grateful to know. Ta.
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We tell helos to either report at/approaching the aerodrome boundary in a given direction, having joined the CTR via visual reference point, or join into a particular circuit leg for an approach to the runway. We have two helo. schools and approx 6 other helos based, 4 of which are with an AOC operator, for info. Departing helos are air taxied to a runway holding point usually or occasionally depart from the parallel taxiway.Hope that helps a little.
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OK for Stansted it depends on the runway in use and the direction of approach. If inbound from the west (Puckeridge)or north (BKY or Audley End) then it would be report approaching the airfield boundary or Hap then cleared to land. From the east (Greta Dunmow) hold at the Diamond hangar, or if it is 23 in use and the Helo is familiar with the airfield then hold by the Control tower, Then Tfc info given when approaching the CTB, and clearance given to cross the runway at the threshold and then routing to the HAP. Outbounds are the reverse. Simple really(clears throat thinking of all the times it hasn't worked quite as planned)............
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I know Aberdeen have specific Helicopter procedures. Equally, Lossiemouth publish specific routes through the CMATZ, which allow helos to depart and recover from the thresholds of the out of use runways. The routes are flown at 500ft on the QFE and the helos must be VFR. FW join at 1000ft QFE and CTT at that height. Providing the helos remain away from the immediate app and climbout lanes of the main runway, the 2 sets of procedures integrate very well. The phraseology used by the APP controller instructs the helo to join iaw the special procedures reporting the MATZ boundary at a specified point level at 500ft. The Twr controller will then instruct the helo to join for the relevant threshold stipulating the main runway in use and the amount of circuit traffic. When departing, helos taxi for the appropriate threshold and depart once again iaw the laid down routes, these deconflict with FW climbout and recovery lanes. A deemable squawk is applied to the helo and FW IFR departures continue based on the known track and heights of all ac involved. If a helo wants to depart IFR it lines up on the main runway and is given take off clearance that conforms with a SID, we all then wait for half an hour while it poodles out of the climbout lane.
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I think that there are really 2 questions which are probably best considered separately:
1. The procedures that helos are required/asked to adopt;
2. the RT phraseology used.
1. It must be everyone's experience who has flown heles in different places that airfields ask heles to do widely differing things. Others have run through some of the options, from treating us just like planks through to a complete free-for-all (i.e. pretty much do what you like).
When I have flown regularly out of or to different fields I have sometimes talked to ATC about why they ask what they ask for. Again the reasons seem to vary. In some cases, heles are rare, so thay do not make special rules, and treat us like planks (because they do not know any better, or there is no particular need to generate special rules). In other cases, usually where there are significant regular hele ops, special rules are made. Hopefully these get promulgated in the various flight guides. Very often, these get agreed with the local hele operators, which hopefully means they are likely to be practical and realistic. However, there will be cases where what is agreed for certain classes of hele are not sensible for others.
I will always remember a departure from an offshore helicopter airport, that I made early in my flying career using an R22 with strong onshore winds. I wanted to go inland, and the clearance was "depart direct". However, my heavy R22 would not have appreciated such a downwind departure. Despite being inexperienced at the time, I summoned up the courage (as a junior low time pilot) to ask if I could depart into wind - no problem at all. ATC thought they were giving me a good clearance because the offshore guys would have been happy with such a departure.
Sometimes, it has to do with the "style of management" of the SATCO or ATC manager of the airfield too.
It probably makes a big difference whether or not there is "control" at the field (as compared with just flight information) and whether there are IFR departures or arrivals, which ATC are there to protect.
I think you would have to have the wisdom of Solomon to generate a set of rules for heles to suit all occasions. If it were done, rest assured that sone rotary pilots would not like them.
2. In respect of this aspect, there must be mileage in standard phraseology. However, like in lots of areas of aviation we are often too rare to bother about or generate special rules for. (Just look at the nonsense situation where we have to do plank ground school to obtain some of our helicopter licences, because the regulators have not generated hele syllabi).
1. The procedures that helos are required/asked to adopt;
2. the RT phraseology used.
1. It must be everyone's experience who has flown heles in different places that airfields ask heles to do widely differing things. Others have run through some of the options, from treating us just like planks through to a complete free-for-all (i.e. pretty much do what you like).
When I have flown regularly out of or to different fields I have sometimes talked to ATC about why they ask what they ask for. Again the reasons seem to vary. In some cases, heles are rare, so thay do not make special rules, and treat us like planks (because they do not know any better, or there is no particular need to generate special rules). In other cases, usually where there are significant regular hele ops, special rules are made. Hopefully these get promulgated in the various flight guides. Very often, these get agreed with the local hele operators, which hopefully means they are likely to be practical and realistic. However, there will be cases where what is agreed for certain classes of hele are not sensible for others.
I will always remember a departure from an offshore helicopter airport, that I made early in my flying career using an R22 with strong onshore winds. I wanted to go inland, and the clearance was "depart direct". However, my heavy R22 would not have appreciated such a downwind departure. Despite being inexperienced at the time, I summoned up the courage (as a junior low time pilot) to ask if I could depart into wind - no problem at all. ATC thought they were giving me a good clearance because the offshore guys would have been happy with such a departure.
Sometimes, it has to do with the "style of management" of the SATCO or ATC manager of the airfield too.
It probably makes a big difference whether or not there is "control" at the field (as compared with just flight information) and whether there are IFR departures or arrivals, which ATC are there to protect.
I think you would have to have the wisdom of Solomon to generate a set of rules for heles to suit all occasions. If it were done, rest assured that sone rotary pilots would not like them.
2. In respect of this aspect, there must be mileage in standard phraseology. However, like in lots of areas of aviation we are often too rare to bother about or generate special rules for. (Just look at the nonsense situation where we have to do plank ground school to obtain some of our helicopter licences, because the regulators have not generated hele syllabi).
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Over here it also depends on the controller in the tower at the time.
Frankfurt for example (quite busy sometimes), coming in from the north was:
T: "Are you familiar?"
Me: "affirm"
T: "overhead at 1500ft behind the tower to the H" (south side = correct side)
Wonderful thinks I, until it took me 12minutes to get a clearance to a parking spot that was no more than 30 yards from where I was waiting!
Another time I was directed to intercept short final for runway 27R (north side = wrong side) until I asked if that was REALLY what they wanted, and was promptly sent into VFR holding while they had a cuppa and thought about it!
The phraseology does change alot though, as said, it really depends on whether they are used to helicopters or not.
Question: do ATCO's get special helicopter handling training? I think this has been chewed through before but I've forgotten
Frankfurt for example (quite busy sometimes), coming in from the north was:
T: "Are you familiar?"
Me: "affirm"
T: "overhead at 1500ft behind the tower to the H" (south side = correct side)
Wonderful thinks I, until it took me 12minutes to get a clearance to a parking spot that was no more than 30 yards from where I was waiting!
Another time I was directed to intercept short final for runway 27R (north side = wrong side) until I asked if that was REALLY what they wanted, and was promptly sent into VFR holding while they had a cuppa and thought about it!
The phraseology does change alot though, as said, it really depends on whether they are used to helicopters or not.
Question: do ATCO's get special helicopter handling training? I think this has been chewed through before but I've forgotten
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I don't know wheher they get specific training, but in the London area, a number of our operators (of different types) offer to take ATC guys from places like Heathrow for flights. What is possible depends on the operation, but it can do no harm for ATC to see things from the "other side" so to speak. Most people associated with aviation enjoy a day out in a helicopter (I certainly do.........)
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Good idea, we are an extremely flexible bunch and it must be useful for them to know just how easy we are to control...well not according to my ex-wife but thats one for the jetblast forum
