Hughes 269/Schweizer 300 series
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Hughes 300
Hi all,
Thinking of cashing my R44 in ( June 2008/ 330hr Raven 2, VAT Paid, if anybody's interested).
Had a go in a 1965 Hughes 300 the other day. I liked it!
Sloooow by Robinson standards of course but rather than give up rotary entirely to concentrate on my vintage fixed-wing passion I could be tempted to go for a 'vintage' Hughes 300.
Seem cheap when compared to an R22 ( which I don't fancy) and with no calender-life items AFAIAA.
All poop appreciated on this type.
ATB
HP
Thinking of cashing my R44 in ( June 2008/ 330hr Raven 2, VAT Paid, if anybody's interested).
Had a go in a 1965 Hughes 300 the other day. I liked it!
Sloooow by Robinson standards of course but rather than give up rotary entirely to concentrate on my vintage fixed-wing passion I could be tempted to go for a 'vintage' Hughes 300.
Seem cheap when compared to an R22 ( which I don't fancy) and with no calender-life items AFAIAA.
All poop appreciated on this type.
ATB
HP
I used to fly a 1969 300 .....sadly it chopped itself to pieces around me one day .......having said that it is , if well maintained , a good helicopter . Just bear in mind that the A had the high speed tail rotor which did not like flying in rain so not so good for the UK .
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I really like the H/S 300s (aka 269) - especially the 300'C', which I'd recommend.
When I first considered learning to fly helicopters, I did a lot of research. I tried all the various options, inc turbines, but it was the 300'C' that I most enjoyed, backed up by lots of professional advice
In fact, liked it so much that I eventually bought one to learn on. Later went Turbine but kept the 300'C' for another year. Regretted selling it, so bought another, which is currently under-going a full refurb.
It's a proper helicopter, designed and engineered for purpose with proper controls, rotorhead, lots of power and safety and fantastic fun to fly. Not fast and not much luggage space (although I bought cargo racks) but spacious inside.
Good ones aren't cheap, and a new S.300'C' is similar price to a new R44, and they are quite rare in the UK. More popular in hotter/higher climates where they need the performance.
Originally designed by Hughes for the US Army (30,000 pilots were trained on the TH-55s, over 3,000,000 hrs) then taken over by Schweizer who are now owned by Sikorsky.
My son went solo in a 1974 '300C' (and a 480B) last week, on his 16th birthday, here > Youngest First Helicopter Solo Flights - Ollie Chadwick - YouTube
Definitely recommended - the 'Mini-Cooper' of helicopters. Ask Dennis Kenyon
When I first considered learning to fly helicopters, I did a lot of research. I tried all the various options, inc turbines, but it was the 300'C' that I most enjoyed, backed up by lots of professional advice
In fact, liked it so much that I eventually bought one to learn on. Later went Turbine but kept the 300'C' for another year. Regretted selling it, so bought another, which is currently under-going a full refurb.
It's a proper helicopter, designed and engineered for purpose with proper controls, rotorhead, lots of power and safety and fantastic fun to fly. Not fast and not much luggage space (although I bought cargo racks) but spacious inside.
Good ones aren't cheap, and a new S.300'C' is similar price to a new R44, and they are quite rare in the UK. More popular in hotter/higher climates where they need the performance.
Originally designed by Hughes for the US Army (30,000 pilots were trained on the TH-55s, over 3,000,000 hrs) then taken over by Schweizer who are now owned by Sikorsky.
My son went solo in a 1974 '300C' (and a 480B) last week, on his 16th birthday, here > Youngest First Helicopter Solo Flights - Ollie Chadwick - YouTube
Definitely recommended - the 'Mini-Cooper' of helicopters. Ask Dennis Kenyon
"Just a pilot"
Never flown any Robinson products, but learned and taught in the TH-55 and Hughes 269 B/C, even a little time in a 269A. Get the 'big tail rotor', Elastomeric dampers and dual tanks. I understand there are expensive differences in MR blades.
Kinda tinkery airframes compared to present state of the art stuff. Ground resonance was more common on the Army fleet than the civvie side IMHO, but they were flown hard and often, by students, so keeping them ship-shape and Bristol fashion wasn't possible. Also autorotation nose tuck was infamous, but preventable with yaw trim.
The TH-55 was the slowest with very light bubble glazing that would buckle at 'high speed', 75-80 knots. Never saw that in a civilian model.
I am under the impression that the more modern CBi is cost competitive with the R22...
Kinda tinkery airframes compared to present state of the art stuff. Ground resonance was more common on the Army fleet than the civvie side IMHO, but they were flown hard and often, by students, so keeping them ship-shape and Bristol fashion wasn't possible. Also autorotation nose tuck was infamous, but preventable with yaw trim.
The TH-55 was the slowest with very light bubble glazing that would buckle at 'high speed', 75-80 knots. Never saw that in a civilian model.
I am under the impression that the more modern CBi is cost competitive with the R22...
HP
Which one are you looking at G-BPPY a 269B ? If so I rebuilt her some years ago. Have fun they are cracking machines, but a bit slow !! My c models are hard pushed to do more than 80 kts
Which one are you looking at G-BPPY a 269B ? If so I rebuilt her some years ago. Have fun they are cracking machines, but a bit slow !! My c models are hard pushed to do more than 80 kts
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Slooooow
My Storch does 65kts flat out (and burns over a litre a minute!) so I'm used to getting the knitting out on a cross country.
All for fun, no rush to get anywhere.
I'm warming up on the Hughes but not actively looking, I need to offload the 44 first.
Rotorway? Er......no.....don't fancy one.
Thanks for the replies guys, keep em coming.
HP
All for fun, no rush to get anywhere.
I'm warming up on the Hughes but not actively looking, I need to offload the 44 first.
Rotorway? Er......no.....don't fancy one.
Thanks for the replies guys, keep em coming.
HP
I have been flying an R44 most of last year and when I went to do my H300 LPC I had forgot how much fun it is to fly by comparison. It's a bit like the difference between a Mondeo and a Mini. Obviously you wouldn't want to put your 96 year old grannie in the back of a mini, so horses for courses.
Everyone talks about the difference in speed and comfort to an R44 but compared to an R22 from a practical perspective - there's not that much in it.
I can happily fly at 85Kts without it feeling uncomfortable. If you trade off the huge fuel tanks and extra payload I think they even out a bit more and then the three bladed rotor with a decent bit of inertia helps as well.
Haven't had any reliability issues, but note that at certain points in the lifecycle there are some lumpy items to refurb/replace. The MRGB needs overhaul at 3000 (4000 on a Cb/Cbi) and replacement at 6/8K respectively. Used bits are often available and you can get some deals on new bits. Blades are difficult to source used and there has been some issues around getting hold of sensibly priced mast assemblies.
One of the biggest issues I had was the early models don't have much dashboard - so if you want to use for training it's difficult to fit AI DI VSI etc.
Like FLY7 said - I'd go for a 300C over a 300Cbi and a Cbi over a Cb.
CC
Everyone talks about the difference in speed and comfort to an R44 but compared to an R22 from a practical perspective - there's not that much in it.
I can happily fly at 85Kts without it feeling uncomfortable. If you trade off the huge fuel tanks and extra payload I think they even out a bit more and then the three bladed rotor with a decent bit of inertia helps as well.
Haven't had any reliability issues, but note that at certain points in the lifecycle there are some lumpy items to refurb/replace. The MRGB needs overhaul at 3000 (4000 on a Cb/Cbi) and replacement at 6/8K respectively. Used bits are often available and you can get some deals on new bits. Blades are difficult to source used and there has been some issues around getting hold of sensibly priced mast assemblies.
One of the biggest issues I had was the early models don't have much dashboard - so if you want to use for training it's difficult to fit AI DI VSI etc.
Like FLY7 said - I'd go for a 300C over a 300Cbi and a Cbi over a Cb.
CC
Looking for a good detailed book on the 300. Anybody recommend this one?
Schweizer 300CB/CBi Information Manual, Jeppesen, 10001463, JS312501, Aircraft Technical Book Company, Aviation Books and Video Resources
Dave
Schweizer 300CB/CBi Information Manual, Jeppesen, 10001463, JS312501, Aircraft Technical Book Company, Aviation Books and Video Resources
Dave
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Not much in that book that isnt in the Flight manual (RFM probably the best source anyway)
This may help Schweizer 300 CBi PPL(H) Study Guide
but it does cover the PPL syllabus as well so may not?
This may help Schweizer 300 CBi PPL(H) Study Guide
but it does cover the PPL syllabus as well so may not?
No , never owned one . Taught in them for a short while then bought the Bell 47 . Great machine if properly maintained ...( guess that really goes for ALL helicopters...) .
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I trained on a C and then bought a B. The B, among other things, lacked the tail rotor authority of the C but could lift 3 people at a moderate density altitude. Both models are a bit slow - I remember flying parallel to a freeway in a moderate headwind and seeing the cars go faster than the little B. Having said all that, I still love the little beasts and I would buy another if I could afford it.
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269 vs R22/44
YEP. We used to say the 269 was a "REAL HELICOPTER"
When I was learning, I took 3 hours in a R22B and was about to quit when I by chance, took an hour in a 269C. What a difference. I could actually fly the bird.
So the next week went out an bought a 269B and then a 269C. Flew the 269C from North Carolina to Van Nuys. What a great trip. Made a few Gas Station fuel stops but other than that, was great.
Eventually graduated to the 369C and D. But the transition was nothing. Like driving a 2 door then a 4 door.
Have been "forced" over the years to fly R44s but not by choice.
Just be careful if you have dampeners. We lost a beautiful 269C model because the mechanic did a bad overhaul of the dampeners. So go with the elastomeric dampeners to be safe.
Used to shoot a lot of video for news stations until we got the 206 and then the AS350, but flew a 300CBI for my BFR and it was like being back on my favourite mount.
When I was learning, I took 3 hours in a R22B and was about to quit when I by chance, took an hour in a 269C. What a difference. I could actually fly the bird.
So the next week went out an bought a 269B and then a 269C. Flew the 269C from North Carolina to Van Nuys. What a great trip. Made a few Gas Station fuel stops but other than that, was great.
Eventually graduated to the 369C and D. But the transition was nothing. Like driving a 2 door then a 4 door.
Have been "forced" over the years to fly R44s but not by choice.
Just be careful if you have dampeners. We lost a beautiful 269C model because the mechanic did a bad overhaul of the dampeners. So go with the elastomeric dampeners to be safe.
Used to shoot a lot of video for news stations until we got the 206 and then the AS350, but flew a 300CBI for my BFR and it was like being back on my favourite mount.
via FLY7; Originally designed by Hughes... ...then taken over by Schweizer who are now owned by Sikorsky.
.
FB
Stopping the 300cbi but keeping the 300c line going. However spares support can be best described as a joke. I went aog for dampers but was told about 6 months, couldnt even give a lead time on a main rotor drive shaft.
Not difficult to keep lifed items on a shelf is it ?
Stopping the 300cbi but keeping the 300c line going. However spares support can be best described as a joke. I went aog for dampers but was told about 6 months, couldnt even give a lead time on a main rotor drive shaft.
Not difficult to keep lifed items on a shelf is it ?