Talk down a heli
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Talk down a heli
What do you think the chances are of talking down a student on his first lesson, given that the student was aware the pilot was about to pass out and had control immediately prior to the emergency, and was already in radio contact with an experienced pilot. Has it ever happened?
Avoid imitations
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bugdevheli,
If the tablets aren't working and you are still getting those dizzy spells, you owe it to everyone NOT to continue flying. See your doctor TOMORROW!
If the tablets aren't working and you are still getting those dizzy spells, you owe it to everyone NOT to continue flying. See your doctor TOMORROW!
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no chance, I guess the odd one who was flying in the cruise really well and had done a lot of reading before lesson 1 and therefore had a good understanding may survive the controlled crash, but I think T N said it
There was a case of a Rallye or Robin, some years ago in the UK, whose passenger flew the a/c to a successful landing after the pilot collapsed - he was talked down by an instructor.
I've not heard of the same in a helicopter - I reckon the chances in something without a SAS are absolutely minimal.
I've not heard of the same in a helicopter - I reckon the chances in something without a SAS are absolutely minimal.
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"What do you think the chances are of talking down a student on his first lesson, given that the student was aware the pilot was about to pass out and had control immediately prior to the emergency, and was already in radio contact with an experienced pilot."
About the same as Nick Lappos landing a B-747 with the airfield below minimums during a hail storm with two engines failed, the electrical system non-responsive, a fire in the aft latrine, and an intoxicated co-pilot.
He did that once? Damn. Oh....did I mention the solar flares and weapons of mass destruction?
About the same as Nick Lappos landing a B-747 with the airfield below minimums during a hail storm with two engines failed, the electrical system non-responsive, a fire in the aft latrine, and an intoxicated co-pilot.
He did that once? Damn. Oh....did I mention the solar flares and weapons of mass destruction?
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The chances of doing it aren't that bad, since a fixed-wing, if trimmed properly, is very stable. A few years back, a crop-duster came in to refuel & reload chemicals, and got out to take a break. He left the engine running, with the wheels chocked, & his ground man was doing the reloads. He leaned into the cockpit, & slipped & hit the throttle, pushing it forward. The plane jumped the chocks, the man fell off, & the plane took off. It flew around until it ran out of gas, & would have landed safely if it hadn't hit the barbed-wire fence as it was touching down. A helicopter that takes off by itself won't fly very far, and a student on his first lesson won't keep it right-side up.
Why do you think the feds require all those medical exams? If the pilot has a heart attack & kills himself, it's not that big a deal, he might have died from the heart attack anyway, but Big Brother frowns on a pilot killing other people, innocent or not.
Why do you think the feds require all those medical exams? If the pilot has a heart attack & kills himself, it's not that big a deal, he might have died from the heart attack anyway, but Big Brother frowns on a pilot killing other people, innocent or not.
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First and maybe last flight lesson
If the instructor on the ground told the unlucky student to push the collective down and enter autorotation, would that add any stability?
Some airplanes will come down in a wings level stabilized sort of mush if the horizontal tail is deflected to an extreme angle. NASA did some work in this area, also models and UAV's are landed this way without pilot input.
Gliders sometimes stay wings level with the dive brakes open and the pilot releases the stick. Good to know when you are sucked up into a cumulus without instruments.
Does anybody know if autorotation is more stable than powered flight?
Some airplanes will come down in a wings level stabilized sort of mush if the horizontal tail is deflected to an extreme angle. NASA did some work in this area, also models and UAV's are landed this way without pilot input.
Gliders sometimes stay wings level with the dive brakes open and the pilot releases the stick. Good to know when you are sucked up into a cumulus without instruments.
Does anybody know if autorotation is more stable than powered flight?
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Suppose the student was a reasonably experienced f/w pilot. They'd probably be able to fly in the cruise relatively well; it's hovering that would be the real problem. They'd also understand the concept of a constant angle approach...not really any different from f/w. So what about the possibility of talking them through a run-on landing...fairly fast with a nice big grassy area to land on?
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Whirly - don't you hate it when you're all fired up for a post, then you read down to find someone has just posted it! 
I agree - and we're all supposing it is something like an R22, in which few would stand a chance. But, suppose it's a 300, or a 206. Someone who could hold it straight and level and with some situational awareness could perhaps run it on...?
I agree - and we're all supposing it is something like an R22, in which few would stand a chance. But, suppose it's a 300, or a 206. Someone who could hold it straight and level and with some situational awareness could perhaps run it on...?
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Not only is it possible, it’s been done.
In Australia in the 60’s
It was a Bell 47 out the back of Sydney somewhere and if I remember, over a body of water, don’t recall which one.
The pilot had collapsed and the only other person on board was a boy about a 15 y.o.
He was talked down from straight and level flight, and he got it down safely, landed on the fixed floats on water if memory serves me..
Now, as incredible as that sounds, it gets better.
He was talked down by a National Park Ranger who couldn't fly and a talking kangaroo.
I saw it. On telly. Skippy The Bush Kangroo.
And it was in colour so it DID happen.
In Australia in the 60’s
It was a Bell 47 out the back of Sydney somewhere and if I remember, over a body of water, don’t recall which one.
The pilot had collapsed and the only other person on board was a boy about a 15 y.o.
He was talked down from straight and level flight, and he got it down safely, landed on the fixed floats on water if memory serves me..
Now, as incredible as that sounds, it gets better.
He was talked down by a National Park Ranger who couldn't fly and a talking kangaroo.
I saw it. On telly. Skippy The Bush Kangroo.
And it was in colour so it DID happen.
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Look no farther than here...
http://download.consumptionjunction....a/cj_13965.wmv
You will see an amazing crash of a fixed wing pilot (supposedly w/ 500 hours) who thought he could easily fly a helicopter. He purchased this ship that day and wrecked it within seconds... all of it caught on this video. Can 1st time student land a helicopter? - not going to happen! Maybe with a run-on landing you will minimize the force of roll-over, which will surely happen. Most likely, the student will panic and yank up and down on the collective like the fixed wing pilot did in this video.
Here is the NTSB report of this incident:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...13X30727&key=1
You will see an amazing crash of a fixed wing pilot (supposedly w/ 500 hours) who thought he could easily fly a helicopter. He purchased this ship that day and wrecked it within seconds... all of it caught on this video. Can 1st time student land a helicopter? - not going to happen! Maybe with a run-on landing you will minimize the force of roll-over, which will surely happen. Most likely, the student will panic and yank up and down on the collective like the fixed wing pilot did in this video.
Here is the NTSB report of this incident:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...13X30727&key=1
Last edited by RDRickster; 25th Aug 2003 at 22:16.
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Talk a heli down
Some nice answers
. I think given that the unfortunate student lasted long enough to speak to someone on the ground, the first input he made would lead to a total mental collapse. From my very limited experience of flying a helicopter, if the instructor is slow in responding to a situation that i feel is getting the better of me, but he obviously feels i am handling ok, me bottom is still going half a crown, sixpence (buck and cent if in USA), untill calm is restored.
. I think given that the unfortunate student lasted long enough to speak to someone on the ground, the first input he made would lead to a total mental collapse. From my very limited experience of flying a helicopter, if the instructor is slow in responding to a situation that i feel is getting the better of me, but he obviously feels i am handling ok, me bottom is still going half a crown, sixpence (buck and cent if in USA), untill calm is restored.
DBChopper,
Maybe above say 40kts, but if you've ever flown a 206 a small power change means a pedal movement, so perhaps the flimsy 22 might be a good option after all ( no i've never tried in either).
I was asked by a F/W driver the other day what happen's if you die ( about 5 miles out), so I told him, sat back and made the standard radio calls only for himr. He flew well until pulling power at about 50 feet, then we went round, and round, and round ( you get the picture).
I am happy to let anyone try without assistance until I think it's getting silly.
It's not rocket science, but I as usually describe it ' Its easy to talk about, but hard to do'
V.
Maybe above say 40kts, but if you've ever flown a 206 a small power change means a pedal movement, so perhaps the flimsy 22 might be a good option after all ( no i've never tried in either).
I was asked by a F/W driver the other day what happen's if you die ( about 5 miles out), so I told him, sat back and made the standard radio calls only for himr. He flew well until pulling power at about 50 feet, then we went round, and round, and round ( you get the picture).
I am happy to let anyone try without assistance until I think it's getting silly.
It's not rocket science, but I as usually describe it ' Its easy to talk about, but hard to do'
V.
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If I remember correctly, Jerry the pilot got food poisoning, and Sonny took control. As the 47 was float equipped, Sonny opted for a landing on the lake! Probably to avoid a hard landing.
Jerry woke just after they landed and did the shut down.
Skippy stood by the base radio and provided moral support to Sonny.
Jerry woke just after they landed and did the shut down.
Skippy stood by the base radio and provided moral support to Sonny.
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Hi Mac
You must be older than I thought if you can remember back to that Skippy episode! Just for historical sake it was me who flew that helicopter! Our company provided the Bell47G3B1 and a pilot to stand in for Tony Bonner, the actor. The landing was done in the river near Terrey Hills and as you say young Sonny had no trouble making a running landing on fixed floats!
As you saw it on TV, it must be possible!!!
You must be older than I thought if you can remember back to that Skippy episode! Just for historical sake it was me who flew that helicopter! Our company provided the Bell47G3B1 and a pilot to stand in for Tony Bonner, the actor. The landing was done in the river near Terrey Hills and as you say young Sonny had no trouble making a running landing on fixed floats!
As you saw it on TV, it must be possible!!!
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Hey Nigel
As a fresh faced newcomer to Ozzie Land and before I can become accepted by the Immigration Dept, I need to have watched a minimum of 10 hours of Skippy and then pass an oral exam.
Have you got any spare copies?
As a fresh faced newcomer to Ozzie Land and before I can become accepted by the Immigration Dept, I need to have watched a minimum of 10 hours of Skippy and then pass an oral exam.
Have you got any spare copies?
