747-200F down in Bogota ?
 

Not much yet, in Spanish

COLOMBIA: AVIÓN DE CARGA BOEING 747 SE ACCIDENTA A LAS AFUERAS DE BOGOTÁ


Lunes 07 de julio de 2008.- Madrid – Cundinamarca - Colombia.- Dos
personas muertas y 10 heridas deja como saldo hasta el momento, el
accidente de un avión de carga, que cayó a tierra cerca de Madrid,
Cundinamarca.

El coronel Fabio Castañeda, comandante de la Policía de Cundinamarca,
dijo a Caracol Radio que ya fueron rescatados con vida siete de los
tripulantes de la aeronave, un Boeing 747 – 200, que llevaba un
cargamento de flores a Miami.

El oficial sostuvo que se adelantan esfuerzos para recuperar a tres
personas que permanecen atrapadas en el fuselaje del avión.

El coronel Castañeda reportó que las dos personas muertas eran
campesinos que habitaban una casa en una zona rural, y a quienes les
cayó encima la aeronave.

Al parecer, los muertos son un hombre de 38 años y un menor de edad de 12 años.

Según la información entregada por la Policía de Cundinamarca, dos de
los heridos están siendo atendidos en el hospital de Madrid, y los
restantes están siendo evacuados en un helicóptero hacia el hospital
de la Policía en Bogotá

need help here..
 

If anyone can translate prior message and post, there are those that would be in you debt.

COLOMBIA: TRANSPORT AIRPLANE BOEING 747 IS INJURED TO THE OUTSKIRTS OF BOGOTA Monday 07 of 2008 July. - Madrid - Cundinamarca - Colombia. - Two hurt dead people and 10 leave as balance until the moment, accident of a transport airplane, that fell to earth near Madrid, Cundinamarca. Colonel Fabio Chestnut grove, commander of the Police of Cundinamarca, he said to Caracol Radio that already was rescued with life seven of crew of the airship, a Boeing 747 - 200, that took shipment of flowers to Miami. The official maintained that efforts go ahead to recover to three people who remain catched in the fuselage of the airplane. Colonel Castañeda reported that the two dead people were farmers who inhabited a house in a countryside, and to those who them the airship fell above. Apparently, the deads are a man of 38 years and a junior of 12 years. According to the information given by the Police of Cundinamarca, two of the wounded are being taken care of in the hospital of Madrid, and rest are being evacuated in a helicopter towards the hospital of the Police in Bogota

para ellos que no hablan castellano:

Monday 7 July - Madrid, Colombia, Two dead and ten injured so far confirmed as a result of an accident involving a 747 cargo plane, which crashed near Cuindinamarca.

The colonel in charge of the local police at Cuindinamarca said that they were able to rescue seven survivors from the crew, which was carrying a load of flowers to Miami.

The official claimed that they were still trying to rescue three others trapped inside the wreck.

The colonel reported that two of the dead were villagers who lived in a house destroyed by the aeroplane. It seems that they are a man of 38 years and a child of 12.

According to further information provided by the police, two of the injured are being treated in the local hospital in Madrid, while the others were evacuated by helicopter to Bogota.

This is a free internet translation, some help.

Monday July 07, 2008.- Madrid – Cundinamarca - Colombia.- Two dead people and 10 injuries leaves as balance up
to now, the accident of a freight plane, that fell to land near Madrid, Cundinamarca.
The colonel Fabio Castañeda, commander of the Police of Cundinamarca, Conch Radio told that already were
rescued with life seven of the crew members of the airship, a Boeing 747 – 200, that carried a cargo of
flowers to Miami.
The official maintained that advance efforts to recover three people that remain trapped in the fuselage of
the airplane.
The colonel Castañeda reported that the two dead people were peasants that inhabited a house in a rural zone,
and to whom on top the airship fell them.
Apparently, the dead persons are a man of 38 years and an under age of 12 years.
According to the information delivered by the Police of Cundinamarca, two of the injured are being attended in
the hospital of Madrid, and the remainders are being evacuees in a helicopter toward the hospital of the
Police in Bogota

Centurion Air Cargo
CWC 164
scheduled as a 747-200F (probably ACMI from another carrier)
Reported as engine fire after T/O
/A

:ooh:

Somewhat strange perhaps?
A cargo 747 full of flowers with ten crew on board, seven rescued and three still trapped in the wreckage.
Not very pleasant though, especially for the poor family on the ground.:hmm:

Okay, without prejudice......

747 200 accident in the suburbs of Bogota.

Seven crew out alive so far.
Efforts continuing to rescue three still trapped in the wreckage.
Two killed, peasants (prob. literally, poor chaps). a 38 year old and a 12 year old who lived in the country, killed when the aircraft fell about their house.
According to police information, two of the wounded are being treated in Madrid Hospital while the rest are being taken by helicopter to the police hospital in Bogota.
That's all folks...:hmm:

Rumors are claiming it's a Kalitta a/c.

By all means correct me if I am wrong, but the pictures and video on CNN looked like a Kalitta paint job.

God bless.

Oh :mad:,

not again...... After the Brussels abort due to engine flames..

Ten crew on board? Say again?

That's not what was said.

Connie Did It Again
 

It was confirmed on another forum, that this was in fact a Kalitta 747 operating on behalf of Centurion Cargo. The feds are going to be all over Kalitta, after this incident, BRU and now BOG in just over a month, 2 hull losses:eek:

Agreed. Nothing but bad news around their house these days...

Connie Kalitta's son, Scott, died last week in a 'Funny Car' crash. Kalitta is not currently a name I'd currently associate with luck...

Jul 7, 2008 8:53 am US/Eastern Digg | Facebook | E-mail Close WindowE-mail This Page5 Reported Dead In Crash Of Miami-Bound Cargo Jet
5 Reported Dead In Crash Of Miami-Bound Cargo Jet
BOGOTA, COLOMBIA (CBS4) ― A Miami-bound cargo jet crashed early Monday shortly after takeoff from Bogota airport in Colombia, killing 2 people on the ground. Colombian TV network RCN is reporting 3 members of the US based crew of 8 died in the crash.

The plane was chartered by Miami-based Centurion Air Cargo, which operates a large cargo operation at Miami International Airport. Kalitta Air, based in Ypsilanti, Michigan, operated the plane.

Brian Andrews, a former CBS4 reporter now working for RCN, reports the plane left Bogota about 4 a.m., and apparently developed problems near the town of Mosquera, about an hour and a half from the Colombian capital.

Colombian website eltiempo.com is reporting the plane hit a farmhouse in the small town of Casablanca, spreading debris over a wide area an apparently killing a farmer and his son who were asleep when the plane crashed..

The plane is believed to have been carrying a crew of 8, including 7 Americans. The surviving crew members have been taken to the Santa Matilda de Madrid hospital in Madrid, the nearest large city.

Centrurion Air Cargo operates a 600 thousand square foot cargo center at Miami International Airport, and earlier this year announced expansion plans.

The cause of the crash is under investigation.

Wow, another Kalitta bird! This in not good news at all!! Is it time to start looking at shorter periods between maintenance checks for these older birds??

Condolences to all those injured and families of the deceased!

Or perhaps the maintenance procedures of certain airlines?

Always a good idea to await investigation results to pinpoint cause then it can be determined how this a/c was maintained compared say to the BRU a/c of the same operating company.

Precisely, while Kalitta are known for excellent maintenance procedures, it just seems that there have been a high number of crashes in general this year, many involving older aircraft. While a company's maintenance program may be 100% perfect, if the FAA guidelines simply are'nt stringent enough then it is a whole new problem which i am sure is not easy to resolve.

Who in the F#$k said it has anything to do with Maintenance procedures? For all we know it could have been a missle, a bomb, drugs gone bad.:ugh:
Why can't we just be happy their were survivors and wait for the investigation to complete instead of speculating the MX procedures on older aircraft. My entire 27 years of flying was on old from the DC-6 to the 747 classic. !!!!! happens...deal with it !:E

No comment apart from the condolences.
This link was placed in the US Air Thread, but contains some info

JACDEC - Current News

same source giving registration as N714CK, a 1981 model

Kalita 747 CNN UPDATE
 

Maintenance
 

I knew that the possibility of maintenance will come up. Before I get shot and killed by the pprune police (No not the moderators) I want to say that I am in no way trying to guess the reason or reasons leading to or contributing to this accident. I am more than happy to wait for a report. However I would like to comment maintenance in general.

Airlines are forced to comply by rules and regulations set forth by the manufacturer of the aircraft, component or part or their respective CAA/FAA. Many companies find it cheaper in the short term to reduce the maintenance burden by performing the absolute minimum required to keep an aircraft flying. The older the aircraft more maintenance is needed to keep it in the air. Not just any kind of maintenance but a specific type that seems to be done less and less: Preventive Maintenance and associated Trend Monitoring.

Trend monitoring of individual components such as an engine will show the deterioration of performance and should prompt an engine change before a catastophic failure occurs. Many companies will tend to fly their engines to TBO limit or until the performance reaches unacceptable values. This saves money in the short term but how about in the long term?

An engine failure in one of the more obscure places in the world requiring a landing back an engine change and the downtime with a possible charter to move the time critical cargo can run into the millions. What is the cost of having engineers work on aircraft during the downtime and perform old fashioned preventive maintenance, certainly less than the scenario above. The older and the more complex or the larger the aircraft is, the more care it requires. This places a huge burden on shoestring operations where cost of operating the aircraft and revenue are virtually the same. One factor in the equation increases and the company will start to lose money. Solution is to save somewhere else. While the savings make perfect sense to the book keepers operationally they might be totally wrong.

MEL has become the Holy cow of an operation. One needs to ask several questions before accepting an aircraft with deferred maintenance items DMI or equivalent. Is it OK by MEL to go? Is it smart even if the MEL allows to go and how do multiple DMI's interact and affect the aircraft operation. One DMI item might be ok, but if you have several and it is still legal to go, operating according to normal procedures can become extremely difficult.

Again I must say that the above post does not judge or guess the reasons leading to the 2nd Kallitta accident rather is my 2 pence worth on the maintenance brought up by other contributors to this thread.

I would appreciate seeing a google earth (sic) type graphic of the runway vs the actual impact location.

I can't figure out phase of flight or expected power from the engines without a little bit more information.

From FlightInternational:

PICTURES: Colombia crash destroys second Kalitta 747F in two months

It is amazing that anybody in the aircraft survived that!!.
Looking at the camera panning the scene (in the CNN vid.) the debris is spread out along a pretty long path, obviously (to me) that helped dissipate the energy.
An aerial shot would be informative.
f

Maintenence?????
 

Quality Maintenance is it's own reward. The opposite is also true.

Lomapaseo,
Just had a quick look at the satellite map for SKBO/BOG:

Wikimapia - Let's describe the whole world!
(most of the others are cloud-obscured!)

If you use the search function (top right), the town/area of Madrid is about 14kms (roughly) west of the airport (there appears to be a military airfield there - crew may have attempted emer. landing there?). Presumably departure from one of the 31s.

When I checked Google-Earth, Madrid in colombia is more like South-South-West of Bogota, not west..........
Is that the place?

I think so; you're talking about the city of Bogota; I'm talking about the airport.

Colombian media talks of the aircraft coming down near a place called Mosquera, which is very close to Madrid.

Ok, Mosquera is more or less on a right-base-leg for the airport, landing 13L or R.
Madrid is much further distance to the south-south-west

If you look in Google Earth, Mosquera is about 2.5 miles and slightly left of the departure end of Rwy 31L. Those old 747 classics are typically operated by these outfits on the very ragged edge of the performance envelope. Having to max perform the aircraft, old airplanes, and engines that are are subjected to a high percentage of max power takeoffs, tempts fate. Not at all uncommon for the EGTs to go yellow or even red on takeoffs out of Bogota.

Sad to say, but the FAA just isn't real interested, for whatever reason, in the bottom feeder freight operators. It'd be real interesting to see what an real and comprehensive investigation by an outside objective panel of experts of maintenance practices of the bottom-feeder freight outfits would turn out.

It will be real interesting on how the Colombians handle this investigation. The last big 747 accident was the Tradewinds runway departure in MDE, I think. However, no one was killed or seriously injured in that one.

ZIP departure?
 

I've often flown the Zipaquira departure from BOG to the North, looking down and thinking where to go if we'd lose an engine in the climb. Glad we never did.

BOG is a tough spot; it lies at 8400', and is pretty much surrounded by mountains. The SID's are rather involved, and the required climb gradients quite steep. An engine out there would be a handfull with a heavy airplane. Towards ZIP there is upsloping terrain until some 50 miles from the airport, to over 12500' elevations if I remember correctly. The engine out procedure there doesn't end when you're clean.

But perhaps they didn't get that far, as the crash site is just a few miles west of the airport.

Most likely they were relatively heavy, as a full load of flowers will max out the zero fuel weight of a 747. MIA is some 4 hrs away, requiring more than a light fuel load. Performance-wise it would have been very tight, I know our departures usually were.

Glad to see the crew came out alive, sorry for those on the ground who didn't.

Hi,

Bad luck.
Will not speculate on this accident .. but will speculate about my next comment if in the two months forward a other plane of this company go badly on the ground ... my comments will not be "bad luck" anymore.

Regards.

Luck has little to do with aviation. Good maintenance, experience, and pilot skill does.

Don't be so literal
 

Suggest you make due allowances for the guy/s trying their best to help with quick translations. I read nothing there to CONFIRM that the 10 were all crew, or even on board - making allowances for, with respect, amateur translations, they could well have been people on the ground. Similarly the 3 "trapped on board" could well be people on the ground.

Whatever, please make allowances for (with all due respect) "non-qualified translators" trying their best to come up with info for us all.

Very best of luck to all living involved, condolences to those families with loved ones lost.

AES

ya fueron rescatados con vida siete de los
tripulantes de la aeronave

It does say they rescued "7 of the crew members". They don't give any other information about the other 3.

I am a native speaker, no amateur translator!

Regards.

Two fatal crashes south of the border in two days for Ypsilanti based freight operators...