Sex in the cockpit???
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Sex in the cockpit???
Let me make it clear immediately that this isn't an invitation.
I would just like some opinions regarding a bizarre flight undertaken by my Step-daughter and her friend on sunday 1 September to Lefkas in Greece.
They were booked via their tour operator to fly with MD Airlines to Lefkas from Luton. Their flight was delayed due to technical difficulties and a replacement plane sent from Greece. I should make it clear at this point that my SD and her friend have no interest in aircraft and just get on, sit there and get off! The plane was Electra Airlines and even they said that 'it looked older than their grandmother' ( I have since found out it was a DC10). When they got on they said that the interior was really old and shabby, and that there was no allocated seating. during the safety demonstration the crew were pointing out the usual including the oxygen panel when my SD and other passengers realised that there was no overhead panel for oxygen but just gaping holes where they had been at some point.
The flight sounds like a nightmare - they said that they flew THROUGH a storm, with the plane being lit up and bounced around the sky so much that most of the passengers were in tears. There was no meal and just a drink of water. Although it was a non smoking flight the crew were smoking in full view of the passengers. On arrival at Lefkas they landed at the Islands airport which is a military base. They sat on the runway for 20 minutes and an announcement was made that they had not been given a parking space so would have to wait longer. The lady passenger sitting next to my daughter said that she had had enough and went up to the front of the plane to find out what was going on. There was just a curtain seperating hte flight deck from the cabin so she pulled that back to find the pilot shagging one of the stewardesses!!! She returned to her seat in a state of shock.
Does this sound acceptable (apart from the sex of course) to you pilots and are there safety implications here. I know that pilots are very protective of one another but if safety guidelines are being breeched what can be done about it.
I would just like some opinions regarding a bizarre flight undertaken by my Step-daughter and her friend on sunday 1 September to Lefkas in Greece.
They were booked via their tour operator to fly with MD Airlines to Lefkas from Luton. Their flight was delayed due to technical difficulties and a replacement plane sent from Greece. I should make it clear at this point that my SD and her friend have no interest in aircraft and just get on, sit there and get off! The plane was Electra Airlines and even they said that 'it looked older than their grandmother' ( I have since found out it was a DC10). When they got on they said that the interior was really old and shabby, and that there was no allocated seating. during the safety demonstration the crew were pointing out the usual including the oxygen panel when my SD and other passengers realised that there was no overhead panel for oxygen but just gaping holes where they had been at some point.
The flight sounds like a nightmare - they said that they flew THROUGH a storm, with the plane being lit up and bounced around the sky so much that most of the passengers were in tears. There was no meal and just a drink of water. Although it was a non smoking flight the crew were smoking in full view of the passengers. On arrival at Lefkas they landed at the Islands airport which is a military base. They sat on the runway for 20 minutes and an announcement was made that they had not been given a parking space so would have to wait longer. The lady passenger sitting next to my daughter said that she had had enough and went up to the front of the plane to find out what was going on. There was just a curtain seperating hte flight deck from the cabin so she pulled that back to find the pilot shagging one of the stewardesses!!! She returned to her seat in a state of shock.
Does this sound acceptable (apart from the sex of course) to you pilots and are there safety implications here. I know that pilots are very protective of one another but if safety guidelines are being breeched what can be done about it.
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A curtain seperating the flight deck from the cabin???
That is not exactly what I call a secure cockpit...as for the sex bit..tacky!!..you sure it wasn`t 2 of the cabin crew at it??? I think she must have mistaken the front of the plane where the front door cabin crew storage area.
Cockpits have doors!!
If not.lets hope no non desirables are reading this one..geesh!!
That is not exactly what I call a secure cockpit...as for the sex bit..tacky!!..you sure it wasn`t 2 of the cabin crew at it??? I think she must have mistaken the front of the plane where the front door cabin crew storage area.
Cockpits have doors!!
If not.lets hope no non desirables are reading this one..geesh!!
Paxing All Over The World
To M. Smith,
The flight decks of commercial aircraft have had doors for over 30 years (or more). It is 99.99% certain that the passenger saw two members of the cabin crew, who were behind the curtains that screen the galley area. Their behaviour should be reported to the carrier and (more importantly) the regulatory authority for the country where the 'airline' is registered.
As regards the other aspects, such as a possible lack of emergency oxygen masks, write to the company that sold the original tickets and the Civil Aviation Authority, who are based in London and in the phone book.
Flying through a storm is not against the rules but it is bad customer relations. It may have been done to pick up time but is never a good idea as passengers tend not to enjoy it. The aircraft is not likely to have been in danger, just upsetting for the passengers.
Oh yes - and DO mention the smoking, if it was stated as being a non-smoking flight, then it was against the rules.
Lastly, check to see if the original seller of the tickets has any higher owner, such as a tour group or PLC, to whom you can write.
The flight decks of commercial aircraft have had doors for over 30 years (or more). It is 99.99% certain that the passenger saw two members of the cabin crew, who were behind the curtains that screen the galley area. Their behaviour should be reported to the carrier and (more importantly) the regulatory authority for the country where the 'airline' is registered.
As regards the other aspects, such as a possible lack of emergency oxygen masks, write to the company that sold the original tickets and the Civil Aviation Authority, who are based in London and in the phone book.
Flying through a storm is not against the rules but it is bad customer relations. It may have been done to pick up time but is never a good idea as passengers tend not to enjoy it. The aircraft is not likely to have been in danger, just upsetting for the passengers.
Oh yes - and DO mention the smoking, if it was stated as being a non-smoking flight, then it was against the rules.
Lastly, check to see if the original seller of the tickets has any higher owner, such as a tour group or PLC, to whom you can write.
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UK CAA Alert!
If this aircraft is operating into UK airspace and is not properly equipped then the CAA would be interested. Perhaps the next time ATC see this registration, (SX-CVP), scheduled to arrive they could inform the CAA who can then arrange a visit?
Some DC10 aircraft actually have the emergency oxygen in the seat back of the seat in front of each pax, so the hole in the ceiling may not have been the absence of oxygen, just the crew giving an incorrect brief. Again, the CAA could check.
Some DC10 aircraft actually have the emergency oxygen in the seat back of the seat in front of each pax, so the hole in the ceiling may not have been the absence of oxygen, just the crew giving an incorrect brief. Again, the CAA could check.
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This is not Jet Blast. Serious allegations have been made about a wet leased a/c operating on behalf of a UK operator and a few individuals are still unable to raise their subjective thinking above that of a Newt. (Apologies to any Newts out there).
Please try and show the rest of us that you really are not an adolescent unable to control your giggling fits at at the merest mention of the word sex. Your posts are not appreciated if you are unable to distinguish between what is serious and what isn't.
To spare any further embarrasment you might want to click on the 'Edit' button on your posts and either change the content or completely delete the weak but failed attempts at humour.
Please try and show the rest of us that you really are not an adolescent unable to control your giggling fits at at the merest mention of the word sex. Your posts are not appreciated if you are unable to distinguish between what is serious and what isn't.
To spare any further embarrasment you might want to click on the 'Edit' button on your posts and either change the content or completely delete the weak but failed attempts at humour.
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Somehow this doesn't suprise me... you should see what they do without passengers on board!!!! 
Write to.....
Safety Regulation Group
Civil Aviation Authority
Aviation House
Gatwick Airport South
West Sussex RH6 0YR
T: 01293 567171
The CAA regulate all commercial civil aircraft, These are the people who cause us pilots to go nuts, however they are there for a reason, and are very good at spoting errors.
just a question..to us pilots of course... anyone tried the tray-down-the-asile on take off????????????
Write to.....
Safety Regulation Group
Civil Aviation Authority
Aviation House
Gatwick Airport South
West Sussex RH6 0YR
T: 01293 567171
The CAA regulate all commercial civil aircraft, These are the people who cause us pilots to go nuts, however they are there for a reason, and are very good at spoting errors.
just a question..to us pilots of course... anyone tried the tray-down-the-asile on take off????????????
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 23rd Jun 2003 at 22:30.
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BlueEagle
SX-CVP spends an awful lot of time at MAN, operating a few flights weekly. Can't remember the weekday programme but it has been doing 2 services on Saturdays for the past few weeks.
SX-CVP spends an awful lot of time at MAN, operating a few flights weekly. Can't remember the weekday programme but it has been doing 2 services on Saturdays for the past few weeks.
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The CAA only regulate UK airlines. They therefore have no responsibility for either MD or Electra. The Department for Transport takes the lead in issues relating to the safety of foreign aircraft. If they are given information which indicates that an aircraft/airline is not in compliance with international standards they will arrange for the CAA to carry out an inspection on their behalf. Complaints about the safety of foreign aircraft can be sent to [email protected]
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I regularly take a bashing on this network because of my support for some of the lesser known carriers who are struggling on and attempting to provide their regions with a very reasonable product (in my case Qatar).
Others are bashed because they are Ryanair or easyJet crew or management, and there are pockets here whom will, conversely, take great delight in joining in the ridiculing of us.
Here, we have an example of a carrier which appears at least to be unethical and, at worst, flouting basic safety regulations and contravening its own policies (smoking, etc.....)
Yet hardly any of you have batted an eyelid........."it's an old DC-10 old Electra, carrying bucket and spade brigade......so, who cares about charters........" is the feeling that you are all promoting.
However, had the self same incident been "rumoured" to have occurred on a Ryanair aircraft, or Britannia, the entire Pprune contingent would have been up in arms about this disgusting behaviour and bringing the industry into disrepute.....and extremely vociferous about the safety concerns which may exist.
Here it's been ignored and ridiculed for some reason. Why?
(Before I provoke a backlash, I apologise to those of you above who DID make sensible comments. Just can't understand the double standards of the others.)
Sorry - but it's my opinion.
Others are bashed because they are Ryanair or easyJet crew or management, and there are pockets here whom will, conversely, take great delight in joining in the ridiculing of us.
Here, we have an example of a carrier which appears at least to be unethical and, at worst, flouting basic safety regulations and contravening its own policies (smoking, etc.....)
Yet hardly any of you have batted an eyelid........."it's an old DC-10 old Electra, carrying bucket and spade brigade......so, who cares about charters........" is the feeling that you are all promoting.
However, had the self same incident been "rumoured" to have occurred on a Ryanair aircraft, or Britannia, the entire Pprune contingent would have been up in arms about this disgusting behaviour and bringing the industry into disrepute.....and extremely vociferous about the safety concerns which may exist.
Here it's been ignored and ridiculed for some reason. Why?
(Before I provoke a backlash, I apologise to those of you above who DID make sensible comments. Just can't understand the double standards of the others.)
Sorry - but it's my opinion.
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UK CAA has NO direct responsibility?
I'm pretty sure that any aviation regulator can pull a ramp check on any aircraft, of any international origin. That would be enough to prove or disprove the safety systems side of this subject. If the claims are proved to be correct, the regulator can then issue a notice that grounds the aircraft until such time as it complies with international safety standards.
Every regulator has a safety mandate over all aircraft operations within their own jurisdiction. Political ramifications could be another - and entirely separate - issue, of course...
Every regulator has a safety mandate over all aircraft operations within their own jurisdiction. Political ramifications could be another - and entirely separate - issue, of course...
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If memory serves me right, this airline flew an absolute blinder a few months ago.
The Heineken Cup final was on down in Cardiff (I think Heineken?)
and this A/L or indeed, not to be totally biased, an agent on their behalf, could not get a slot at CWL due capacity.
So they filed a plan and arrived in Birmingham having tried to "divert" to CWL. There were no onward travel arrangements for the rugby supporters and I have a feeling they all went home never having got to the match.
They also have a DC-10F (SX-CVC) last seen at EBOS.
The Heineken Cup final was on down in Cardiff (I think Heineken?)
and this A/L or indeed, not to be totally biased, an agent on their behalf, could not get a slot at CWL due capacity.
So they filed a plan and arrived in Birmingham having tried to "divert" to CWL. There were no onward travel arrangements for the rugby supporters and I have a feeling they all went home never having got to the match.
They also have a DC-10F (SX-CVC) last seen at EBOS.
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OzExpat
From the Department for Transport's document "The Future of Aviation
The Government's Consultation Document on Air Transport Policy"
"The Government has also designed policies to ensure that foreign aircraft visiting the UK conform to international safety standards. We only issue permits to foreign airlines to fly here when we are satisfied that they have all the certificates required by ICAO. We also ask the CAA to inspect foreign aircraft where there is evidence that they may not meet ICAO standards. These inspections are carried out as part of a co-ordinated European programme, known as the Safety Assessment of Foreign Aircraft (SAFA) programme. It exists to increase the number of inspections, share information and co-ordinate action. The CAA will ground any aircraft that it finds not to be airworthy. In isolated cases, where a country is found not to be enforcing ICAO standards, all aircraft from that country are prevented from operating in the UK."
The CAA have the power (but no direct statutory responsibility to do so) to inspect certain safety issues under article 118 (2) of the Air Navigation Order but these do not included many operational/cabin safety issues. I understand that such issues are covered by the permit issued by the Department for Transport. The power to inspect for such issues rests with the Secretary of State for Transport under article 118(4) of the ANO, although I understand that the CAA are usually authorised to carry out such inspections.
From the Department for Transport's document "The Future of Aviation
The Government's Consultation Document on Air Transport Policy"
"The Government has also designed policies to ensure that foreign aircraft visiting the UK conform to international safety standards. We only issue permits to foreign airlines to fly here when we are satisfied that they have all the certificates required by ICAO. We also ask the CAA to inspect foreign aircraft where there is evidence that they may not meet ICAO standards. These inspections are carried out as part of a co-ordinated European programme, known as the Safety Assessment of Foreign Aircraft (SAFA) programme. It exists to increase the number of inspections, share information and co-ordinate action. The CAA will ground any aircraft that it finds not to be airworthy. In isolated cases, where a country is found not to be enforcing ICAO standards, all aircraft from that country are prevented from operating in the UK."
The CAA have the power (but no direct statutory responsibility to do so) to inspect certain safety issues under article 118 (2) of the Air Navigation Order but these do not included many operational/cabin safety issues. I understand that such issues are covered by the permit issued by the Department for Transport. The power to inspect for such issues rests with the Secretary of State for Transport under article 118(4) of the ANO, although I understand that the CAA are usually authorised to carry out such inspections.
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As far as the sex bit goes, unethical and not good for customer relations, as has been said this was probably in the fwd galley, and as they were stopped on the ground not a great safety issue (though very embarrasing for those involved if a sudden evacuation was needed), as far as the rest of it goes this sounds like something that should be reported straight to the authorities.
