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Join Date: Jul 1999
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Are pyaws
(Assuming your question is a serious one!)
There is NO credible alternative to BALPA. There doesn't need to be if it is properly supported. If you get your information from a board such as this then I am not surprised to see that your opinion is so low. The IPA (as has been suggested) is a club for those non-members in represented organisations who leech and benefit from the efforts of others, who by default, have no choice but to bargain on their behalf - but that is another thread......................
(Assuming your question is a serious one!)
There is NO credible alternative to BALPA. There doesn't need to be if it is properly supported. If you get your information from a board such as this then I am not surprised to see that your opinion is so low. The IPA (as has been suggested) is a club for those non-members in represented organisations who leech and benefit from the efforts of others, who by default, have no choice but to bargain on their behalf - but that is another thread......................
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: London, England
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Well said flappless.
The IPA may be well intentioned, and BALPA certainly has it's faults, but is really the only option.
The more of us from all companies stick together, the better the chances of maintaining conditions.
BALPA or any organisation is only as good as it's members support, and active participation.
If you think you can do better, join and help others.
The IPA may be well intentioned, and BALPA certainly has it's faults, but is really the only option.
The more of us from all companies stick together, the better the chances of maintaining conditions.
BALPA or any organisation is only as good as it's members support, and active participation.
If you think you can do better, join and help others.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Peoples Republic of EU
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Interesting thread. I sit on the fence as I'm a member of both organisations! 
However you get the absurd situation where BALPA looks after Mainline BA and BA CitiExpress.
BALPA seems to favour mainline BA over its "lesser" brethren. Seems to me they should either be united or there should be two seperate unions to fight each case as happens in the US.
Same thing happened at bmi and bmi regional with scope clauses etc
However you get the absurd situation where BALPA looks after Mainline BA and BA CitiExpress.
BALPA seems to favour mainline BA over its "lesser" brethren. Seems to me they should either be united or there should be two seperate unions to fight each case as happens in the US.
Same thing happened at bmi and bmi regional with scope clauses etc
Join Date: Jul 1999
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The trouble as I see it Scottie is that if everyone joined the IPA then we would all have a great insurance policy in the event of having a problem - but none of us would have representation (the IPA could not provide it if they wanted to) and that's what counts in difficult industrial climates. Many think that BALPA exists only to provide the same kind of services as the IPA but of course it does FAR more than that. In the company I work for there is a large IPA contingent. These pilots do more damage to the prospects of their colleagues than they could possibly imagine. Its a shame we don't do as you do and join both.
The BA bit you mention in your post is just a distraction - the question of bmi and bmir would have been easier to deal with if BALPA representation had been involved in BOTH organisations. My understanding is the bmir pilots do not want that - no doubt someone will correct me there. One way or another terms and conditions are under attack across the entire industry and we will only stand a chance if we have strength in numbers.
The BA bit you mention in your post is just a distraction - the question of bmi and bmir would have been easier to deal with if BALPA representation had been involved in BOTH organisations. My understanding is the bmir pilots do not want that - no doubt someone will correct me there. One way or another terms and conditions are under attack across the entire industry and we will only stand a chance if we have strength in numbers.
Join Date: Feb 2000
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BALPA costs too much, but delivers very little to the individual.
Reduce the cost and you'll see a massive rise in membership.
Why not produce a "Low Cost" section, where only so much is provided as a service?
People are fed up with paying so much and since 9/11 Balpa has not been able to deliver anything anywhere. I'm out.
Reduce the cost and you'll see a massive rise in membership.
Why not produce a "Low Cost" section, where only so much is provided as a service?
People are fed up with paying so much and since 9/11 Balpa has not been able to deliver anything anywhere. I'm out.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Fully agree with your comments Flapless, strength in numbers in needed. Pilot's are the most apathetic group I've ever met!!! :o
If we were united then yep the bmi & bmir question would have resolved itself. However having been an employee of both companies I had a vested interest in what was happening.
My recollection of the events were that the bmi CC wanted to protect the rights of mainline employees (nowt wrong with that - should be more encouraged) BUT BALPA wasn't prepared to agree to a decent career protection agreement for the bmir employees (6 transferees per year!). Hence the reason bmir pilots rejected BALPA representation despite having a membership at one point of 97%.
If we were united then yep the bmi & bmir question would have resolved itself. However having been an employee of both companies I had a vested interest in what was happening.
My recollection of the events were that the bmi CC wanted to protect the rights of mainline employees (nowt wrong with that - should be more encouraged) BUT BALPA wasn't prepared to agree to a decent career protection agreement for the bmir employees (6 transferees per year!). Hence the reason bmir pilots rejected BALPA representation despite having a membership at one point of 97%.
Join Date: Dec 1999
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What you have to remember is that WE are BALPA!
WE are the ONLY ones who can affect the outcome of our dealings via our Company Reps. If WE do not support those Reps nothing will happen.
There seems to be a strange feeling about that BALPA can somehow wave a magic wand and the desired result occurs. Thats nonsense. I say again, WE are BALPA. Sure they will give great suport to the Reps when they need advice, trained negotiators or legal help, but they cant help those who won't help themselves. It is also obvious that they cannot achieve the impossible, a category thet many of the demands made of them fall into.
It is also the case that BALPA cannot publicise many of their best successes for legal reasons - ie stipulations attached to out of court settlements. The fact we don't know of all their successes does not mean there are none.
If they seem to achieve more success for BA than other airlines I suspect it is because BA are simply more organised in the union field, apart from having very nearly 100% membership.
As Scottie said we are very bad at sticking together and until we learn to present a unified front we will lose lose lose.
Finally, I cannot pass Miss Managements ill-informed comments by without some reply. MM, BALPA represent the unsupported individual just fine if you have a valid case to answer. I've been there a couple of times. You'll regret leaving their protection if ever you have an accident or incident.
Delivered nothing since 9/11? Perhaps you mean 11/9, never mind. MM, ever heard of a nice little company called Go that is being swallowed up by a nasty orange coloured shark? That orange company has just been disabused of it's rapacious and cynical attempt to relieve Go's employees of about £35 MILLION that is actually their own personal property. (Tried to levy 40% income tax at source on Go shares owned by the employees)
BALPA put a stop to that and now £35M goes direct to those employees and not the coffers of the aforementioned shark. No result my @rse!
Moral...don't believe the cr@p some people talk about BALPA!
Join and get involved instead.
WE are the ONLY ones who can affect the outcome of our dealings via our Company Reps. If WE do not support those Reps nothing will happen.
There seems to be a strange feeling about that BALPA can somehow wave a magic wand and the desired result occurs. Thats nonsense. I say again, WE are BALPA. Sure they will give great suport to the Reps when they need advice, trained negotiators or legal help, but they cant help those who won't help themselves. It is also obvious that they cannot achieve the impossible, a category thet many of the demands made of them fall into.
It is also the case that BALPA cannot publicise many of their best successes for legal reasons - ie stipulations attached to out of court settlements. The fact we don't know of all their successes does not mean there are none.
If they seem to achieve more success for BA than other airlines I suspect it is because BA are simply more organised in the union field, apart from having very nearly 100% membership.
As Scottie said we are very bad at sticking together and until we learn to present a unified front we will lose lose lose.
Finally, I cannot pass Miss Managements ill-informed comments by without some reply. MM, BALPA represent the unsupported individual just fine if you have a valid case to answer. I've been there a couple of times. You'll regret leaving their protection if ever you have an accident or incident.
Delivered nothing since 9/11? Perhaps you mean 11/9, never mind. MM, ever heard of a nice little company called Go that is being swallowed up by a nasty orange coloured shark? That orange company has just been disabused of it's rapacious and cynical attempt to relieve Go's employees of about £35 MILLION that is actually their own personal property. (Tried to levy 40% income tax at source on Go shares owned by the employees)
BALPA put a stop to that and now £35M goes direct to those employees and not the coffers of the aforementioned shark. No result my @rse!
Moral...don't believe the cr@p some people talk about BALPA!
Join and get involved instead.
