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NDB DME Approach Procedure

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NDB DME Approach Procedure

Old 17th Oct 2014, 15:02
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NDB DME Approach Procedure

As absurd as it sounds ... Its a fact

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/15532556846/


The approach is based on an NDB and a DME arc!!


Any one have any other examples for such an approach
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 15:54
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1. This is not an NDB/DME approach.

2. Is there any difference if DME arc takes you to ILS or NDB approach? Many airports in the world have same layout for all types of approaches for the same runway (FAF = FAP).
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 16:59
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The OP did not state that it was an NDB/DME approach!

He pointed out that it was based on an NDB and a DME arc. This is pretty indisputable.

At a quick glance I would guess that it is a VOR NDB DME approach as all three of those are required ground aids.
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 17:25
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There are quite a number of NDB/DME Approaches in Australia. Flown this one a number of times. What with coastal effect, night effect, a big CB parked 5 miles away and a 20 kt crosswind it was always fun.
http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/...RMNB01-139.pdf

GPS approaches make it all seem easy now.
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 17:26
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The approach is based on an NDB and a DME arc!!
- I'd go with that. What an amazing approach for a busy international airport - a 'glancing blow' off the VOR and the far end NDB, but don't miss the 'International Museum of Toilets' in town. Says it all!

One would (hope) there is something better for the main runways. Luckily I have not come across any similar............
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 21:22
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I'd declare an emergency.
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 21:58
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Originally Posted by deefer dog View Post
The OP did not state that it was an NDB/DME approach!
..apart from the title 'NDB DME Approach Procedure'?
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 22:06
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What is difficult anout that approach?
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Old 18th Oct 2014, 00:38
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That does look odd, and would be a bit tricky if you didnt have the VOR working to help you track the arc.

Agent 86, your approach is different (and easier); the NDB and the DME are (vitrually) in the same spot, so orientation would be much easier than the Flickr approach.

At a quick glance I would guess that it is a VOR NDB DME approach as all three of those are required ground aids.
Doesn't say VOR is required although obviously, for the arrival at least, you'd need it...
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Old 18th Oct 2014, 01:06
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There was an approach to Wallops Island where the final leg was a DME arc with the FAF and MAP being radials on the arc.
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Old 18th Oct 2014, 03:06
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[QUOTE][/That does look odd, and would be a bit tricky if you didnt have the VOR working to help you track the arc.QUOTE]

Forgive me, but if it is a VOR NDB DME approach one would not be allowed to shoot it without the VOR!
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Old 18th Oct 2014, 03:32
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Forgive me, but if it is a VOR NDB DME approach
It's not a VOR NDB DME approach. The thread title is NDB DME, and it doesn't say anywhere on the chart that VOR is required. It does say that for the DME. Pity the graphic doesn't show the chart title. That would solve it once and for all.

It's pretty logical that it wouldn't "require" the VOR, otherwise there would be no need for the convoluted use of the NDB.

Originally Posted by GF
There was an approach to Wallops Island where the final leg was a DME arc with the FAF and MAP being radials on the arc.
Sounds fun. 5 DME arc? "Stable Capn...apart for the minor heading changes to stay lined up on final!".
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Old 18th Oct 2014, 03:44
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Bloggs,

I just looked, the VOR/DME RWY 10 at KWAL Wallops Island, VA is still published. Pity I can't, actually don't know how, to post it. The final course is the 24.1 DME arc with a IAF at the 218R, the FAF at the 201R and MAP at the 189R. The miss is a left turn it intercept the arc back to MAGGO, the IAF. It's all off the SBY VOR.
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Old 18th Oct 2014, 04:06
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24.1 DME arc not so bad!



That's a pretty interesting approach because the normal arc tracking tolerances would be way too big there. Say you were .5nm off, there's no way you'd get in from the MDA on the straight-in.
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Old 18th Oct 2014, 04:52
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24.1 DME arc not so bad!
A little thread drift, but it might interest GF and possibly Bloggs, that in the early 70s, Toledo Express Airport, like Wallops, had a TACAN arc as the final segment for RWY 25 that the Guard F-100s used routinely.

I believe it was a 10 or so DME arc , don't remember the minima. Flew it once coming over from Columbus.

The chart is long gone. It was cancelled after the Toledo Guard crashed one on the approach.

If you look at Hutchinson, KS, there are VOR, ILS and LOC approaches with DME arcs to final, but the NDB is a simple PT, no other requirement than ADF capability. End of an era. If you're flying NDB over here these days it's probably only because you can't afford much else for your puddle-jumper.

edit: BTW at the time the TOL Tacan wasn't at the field or the approach was off of Waterville.

Last edited by OK465; 18th Oct 2014 at 05:09.
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Old 18th Oct 2014, 09:52
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There are a few in Micronesia. There is an NDB/DME - A to Kosrae (TTK) Airport. Has a DME facility colocated with an NDB, no VOR to be found. NDB final approach guidance with DME identified fixes, and an arc transition (you just use your RMI with the ADF needle displayed and track the arc distance off the DME the same way you would use an RMI during a VOR/DME arc. Easy money). Will upload a picture of the chart later.
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Old 18th Oct 2014, 12:06
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EGBB

EGBB NDB/DME RWY 33/15.... If ILS U/S
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Old 18th Oct 2014, 15:07
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Jeppesen breaks it down into two charts:



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Old 18th Oct 2014, 15:43
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Original:

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Old 18th Oct 2014, 15:59
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Yes, I can see pulling that chart out at night in the wx for the in-range check and approach brief and having no confusion potential at all.

(BTW single-seat Cat E dive-and-drive on a DME arc final segment is truly a Darwinian instrument flight experience.)
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