How to safely accomplish a visual approach in a jet airliner
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How to safely accomplish a visual approach in a jet airliner
Well, perhaps its time to discuss how to make a visual approach in a jet airliner, built anytime after 1958.
Lets set the ground rules first:
1. VMC (visual meteorological conditions) exist.
.
2. The airport is in sight, or in the case of a charted visual procedure, predominate landmarks are in sight.
3. Your aircraft and you, the pilot, are operating normally.
4. Day conditions should be addressed differently than night conditions.
5. Go Around procedures are not to be covered except for using term: go around if needed.
6. Assume that the plane and pilot are capable of landing at the airport in question. (runway length, load bearing etc)
7. Offer both pure visual advice, or modified electronic (basic only...as in ATC RADAR, Ground Mapping feature of WX Radar,rVOR, DME, NDB, PAPI, not RNAV, GPS, or dropping a cat).
8. Assume basic flight instruments including airspeed, vertical speed, compass(dg etc) clock with second hand.
9. Assume a clean windshield>
you may or may not add wx/rain etc advice, but assume basically good wx.
Lets set the ground rules first:
1. VMC (visual meteorological conditions) exist.
.
2. The airport is in sight, or in the case of a charted visual procedure, predominate landmarks are in sight.
3. Your aircraft and you, the pilot, are operating normally.
4. Day conditions should be addressed differently than night conditions.
5. Go Around procedures are not to be covered except for using term: go around if needed.
6. Assume that the plane and pilot are capable of landing at the airport in question. (runway length, load bearing etc)
7. Offer both pure visual advice, or modified electronic (basic only...as in ATC RADAR, Ground Mapping feature of WX Radar,rVOR, DME, NDB, PAPI, not RNAV, GPS, or dropping a cat).
8. Assume basic flight instruments including airspeed, vertical speed, compass(dg etc) clock with second hand.
9. Assume a clean windshield>
you may or may not add wx/rain etc advice, but assume basically good wx.
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Sorry, but #7 is a showstopper. The idea is to use ALL the available tools! Have backups for your backups! You may not actually use all the aids you prepare, but the act of preparing them alone will leave virtual notes in your brain...
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This should be the SHORTEST thread on Pprune.
Do whatever it takes to position the airplane 5nm from the airport at 1500' AGL, configured for landing and on speed.
Flare.
Go to the bar.
End of thread.
Do whatever it takes to position the airplane 5nm from the airport at 1500' AGL, configured for landing and on speed.
Flare.
Go to the bar.
End of thread.
Last edited by zerozero; 10th Sep 2013 at 20:34.
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zz, why go out 5 miles? We did 28L at SFO visuals from the north downwind at 11,000 ft and don't recall getting that far out but then that was before AA took over. Remember how easy it was in the Cessna 150 and Aeronca champ to land with no glide slope when we soloed? It isn't any harder now.
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intruder...offer all available aids and only the most basic...sometimes all are available and sometimes you are just overhead an airport with nothing but your eyes, a compass, altimeter, vertical speed indicator and a clock.
do both
do both
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Originally Posted by bubbers44
zz, why go out 5 miles? We did 28L at SFO visuals from the north downwind at 11,000 ft and don't recall getting that far out but then that was before AA took over. Remember how easy it was in the Cessna 150 and Aeronca champ to land with no glide slope when we soloed? It isn't any harder now.
6nm at 1800'
5nm at 1500'
4nm at 1200'
But no closer than 2nm at 600' please!
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I never did an RNAV approach in my life so if that is what you are telling me with all the altitudes that was after my retirement 10 years ago. We just used eyeballs and judgement to land safely. It worked every time for a few decades.
No bent metal, no injuries and no violations so maybe I was just lucky. I don't think so but I am sure some people will feel that way. We all learned to fly in our own time so all learned differently. I am happy with how I learned and enjoyed every minute of it. I hope you do too.
No bent metal, no injuries and no violations so maybe I was just lucky. I don't think so but I am sure some people will feel that way. We all learned to fly in our own time so all learned differently. I am happy with how I learned and enjoyed every minute of it. I hope you do too.
Ok, I'll start with a couple of things I think are a good idea in the 737:
Know your gates. It will probably be more difficult to work out track miles to run than on a normal approach, so have a think about how you are going to do it. I always use the same method. Gates A B & C. For me gate C is always 3 miles and 1000ft so the only thing I have to work out for each approach is " how will I know when I'm 10nm from gate C ( gate A) and how will I know when I'm 5nm from gate C (gate B). This is normally easily done using range rings. The height/speed/configuration at A & B depend on wind and traffic etc, whatever you choose on the day is just normal energy management, I am normally a little conservative but a standard 3x profile works fine ( obviously) . One thing worth mentioning here is that looking out the window and seeing how the airfield looks is remarkably accurate, doing that as a regular part of the scan is sometimes overlooked which is a bit strange considering it's a visual approach.
Know when you want to have your landing checks completed by. If you don't want to be doing checklists as you judge the turn onto final then the checklist will need to be started at about 1600ft so you'll need to call for final flap about 1800 ft so know where that is as it might be earlier than you're used to on the ILS.
Know what N1 you are going to set as the final flap comes out and speed reduces onto Vapp.
Aim for the inside corner of the runway, works a treat.
That's about it for me, great feeling to do it well, shame we don't get more practice .
Know your gates. It will probably be more difficult to work out track miles to run than on a normal approach, so have a think about how you are going to do it. I always use the same method. Gates A B & C. For me gate C is always 3 miles and 1000ft so the only thing I have to work out for each approach is " how will I know when I'm 10nm from gate C ( gate A) and how will I know when I'm 5nm from gate C (gate B). This is normally easily done using range rings. The height/speed/configuration at A & B depend on wind and traffic etc, whatever you choose on the day is just normal energy management, I am normally a little conservative but a standard 3x profile works fine ( obviously) . One thing worth mentioning here is that looking out the window and seeing how the airfield looks is remarkably accurate, doing that as a regular part of the scan is sometimes overlooked which is a bit strange considering it's a visual approach.
Know when you want to have your landing checks completed by. If you don't want to be doing checklists as you judge the turn onto final then the checklist will need to be started at about 1600ft so you'll need to call for final flap about 1800 ft so know where that is as it might be earlier than you're used to on the ILS.
Know what N1 you are going to set as the final flap comes out and speed reduces onto Vapp.
Aim for the inside corner of the runway, works a treat.
That's about it for me, great feeling to do it well, shame we don't get more practice .
One other thought:
I find that the closer to the airport I am the more important it is to be flying manually in order to get fast instinctive adjustments. I think that if I am not flying manually by about 2500ft then it becomes quite detrimental to the approach as too much thinking is required with regard to vertical speed/ energy management.
Look forward to hearing other peoples techniques.
I find that the closer to the airport I am the more important it is to be flying manually in order to get fast instinctive adjustments. I think that if I am not flying manually by about 2500ft then it becomes quite detrimental to the approach as too much thinking is required with regard to vertical speed/ energy management.
Look forward to hearing other peoples techniques.
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Distance /3 and using the flight path vector to maintain the 3 degrees makes it alot easier. Other than that its just like the c150 but with a little bit more complex energy management if you do a low drag approach until the final gate.
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Anyone using the T L A R principle these days, (as well as all the bells and widgets we didn't have) when the runway was moving up the screen and getting flatter or moving down the screen and getting taller? 
Meanwhile, people keep stuffing it up big time.
Kharmael said
but he/she is probably well aware that doing so is only half the story. Becoming, and staying proficient takes time and training and practice. If the airline you are with makes it difficult to keep current on line then you will lose your skills pretty rapidly.
The head banging, and the fact that more than half of the posts in reply to the OP don't offer anything constructive is a shame.
Twenty years ago pilots were generally better at flying visual approaches than they are now. Why? They were not finer examples of the Human species, they were just the same animal as the 22 year old cadet sitting next to you, it's just they have been brought through a different system. A system allowed into existence by the 60/70/80 year olds who like to roar on about how skilled pilots were in their day. It's up to the current management generation ( Chief Pilots/ Training Captains/ Checking Captains/ Line Captains/ CEO's/) to recognise this and start turning it around with half descent training for the younger folk coming through. A good start would be to allow pilots half an hour every six months in the sim to hand fly raw data visual approach's in a training environment.
Those of us who are proficient in the 'old school' ways are a product of the environment we were lucky enough to operate in. I have flown with guys who have come through the whole system and are on line and are anxious about disconnecting automatics while straight and level in VMC. That is a system failure, what are we doing to change the system?
Kharmael said
1) Learn how to fly an aeroplane and become qualified on type.
The head banging, and the fact that more than half of the posts in reply to the OP don't offer anything constructive is a shame.
Twenty years ago pilots were generally better at flying visual approaches than they are now. Why? They were not finer examples of the Human species, they were just the same animal as the 22 year old cadet sitting next to you, it's just they have been brought through a different system. A system allowed into existence by the 60/70/80 year olds who like to roar on about how skilled pilots were in their day. It's up to the current management generation ( Chief Pilots/ Training Captains/ Checking Captains/ Line Captains/ CEO's/) to recognise this and start turning it around with half descent training for the younger folk coming through. A good start would be to allow pilots half an hour every six months in the sim to hand fly raw data visual approach's in a training environment.
Those of us who are proficient in the 'old school' ways are a product of the environment we were lucky enough to operate in. I have flown with guys who have come through the whole system and are on line and are anxious about disconnecting automatics while straight and level in VMC. That is a system failure, what are we doing to change the system?
The OP set some parameters, not all of which should be needed to make a safe visual approach.Pilots need to get back to basics. How about flying a downwind at 500 feet in low overcast, or 1500 feet in a busy traffic area, eyeballing the spacing from the runway by putting it under the wingtip, just like you were taught at basic flying school? Configure flap and gear as per your aircraft type somewhere on downwind - just like you were taught when you converted to your first retractable aircraft. Time from abeam the threshold, say 25 to 30 seconds if at 500 feet and 40 to 50 seconds if at 1500 feet - just like you SHOULD have been taught for circling approaches when you did your instrument rating.
At the base turn, kill autopilots/ flight directors; including the autothrottle, you pussy......(ducks for incoming).
Have the tower controller turn off the vasis or papi and deselect your ILS frequency; don't cheat by looking at DME distance to run......(reaches for hat and coat).
Around base and final, eyeball the touchdown point to make sure it sits in a constant position in the windscreen. Moving up, you are undershooting, moving down you are overshooting. Watch your airspeed and vertical speed, set the thrust without looking at the engine instruments (you can do it by feel, really) but be sure to spend most of your time looking where you want to go. And, as if by magic, you will go there.
By now, are we getting the picture? Nothing has changed since you learned to fly! The aircraft may be bigger, but do you really think it would be certified if it could not be flown manually to a visual approach and landing?
Of course, if your company SOP specifically prohibits this on line operations, you will need to ask to do it in the simulator. You may be surprised at how easy it is.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 13th Sep 2013 at 10:40.
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My first big aircraft was a King Air 200. Wow....pressurised, two PT6s, autopilot and fast. I remember my instructor/friend/mentor. I asked him how he adjusted his flying technique to larger aircraft.
"do the instruments look the same, more or less?"
Yes
"then just fly the panel and the rest of the airplane will follow you."
Until now, this has never failed to work out pretty good.
"do the instruments look the same, more or less?"
Yes
"then just fly the panel and the rest of the airplane will follow you."
Until now, this has never failed to work out pretty good.