Punctuality at the cost of Safety
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Punctuality at the cost of Safety
I am an F/O with a reasonable amount of experience at a major legacy carrier.
I like to think I have a good understanding of CRM, safety priorities, and operating professionally. I'm also quite relaxed in the cockpit and work on maintaing a positive and friendly cockpit atmosphere.
Naturally, together with Ground Staff and Cabin Crew we work as a team to provide customers with a punctual, safe, service.
However, and here's where I'd like some input - it is my firm belief that the sharp end of the aircraft should be focused on Safety far more than Punctuality. To my mind, On Time Performance is a Ground Staff issue. They have far more, if not complete, control over issues that will delay the flight than the cockpit does.
Making up lost time is also relatively difficult for crews, especially on shorter legs (lets say <3 hours). Block times are already normally calculated at normal cruising speed, and increasing a couple of Mach digits and flying 320 in the climb and descent isnt going to do much for you.
However, despite this, I see many Captains operating under what I believe to be an illusion that they somehow have the ability to be the difference between being on time and late. Very often a guy pushing back 5 minutes early will have a smug 'I did this' air, and be happy for the day - and the guy who is 5 minutes late feels partly guilty - and will rush the rest of the flight to try to make up that time.
I see this as a grave danger to the safety of the flight. The result, is rushed checklists, skipped items, corner cutting, overspeed taxiing, intersection take-offs, nipping at ATC for shortcuts, high speed below FL100 (bird strike) and generally operating in a rushed manner. And for what? A few minutes.
My hypothesis, shown in a very black and white manner to highlight my safety concerns - is that:
1/ We cannot change the arrival time of a flight by more than a couple of minutes, so why try so hard?
2/ We are responsible for safety, not punctuality - why should we care so disproportionately about on time performance ?
3/ Do you think that crews have this mindset at your airline as well? Is it not dangerous?
I like to think I have a good understanding of CRM, safety priorities, and operating professionally. I'm also quite relaxed in the cockpit and work on maintaing a positive and friendly cockpit atmosphere.
Naturally, together with Ground Staff and Cabin Crew we work as a team to provide customers with a punctual, safe, service.
However, and here's where I'd like some input - it is my firm belief that the sharp end of the aircraft should be focused on Safety far more than Punctuality. To my mind, On Time Performance is a Ground Staff issue. They have far more, if not complete, control over issues that will delay the flight than the cockpit does.
Making up lost time is also relatively difficult for crews, especially on shorter legs (lets say <3 hours). Block times are already normally calculated at normal cruising speed, and increasing a couple of Mach digits and flying 320 in the climb and descent isnt going to do much for you.
However, despite this, I see many Captains operating under what I believe to be an illusion that they somehow have the ability to be the difference between being on time and late. Very often a guy pushing back 5 minutes early will have a smug 'I did this' air, and be happy for the day - and the guy who is 5 minutes late feels partly guilty - and will rush the rest of the flight to try to make up that time.
I see this as a grave danger to the safety of the flight. The result, is rushed checklists, skipped items, corner cutting, overspeed taxiing, intersection take-offs, nipping at ATC for shortcuts, high speed below FL100 (bird strike) and generally operating in a rushed manner. And for what? A few minutes.
My hypothesis, shown in a very black and white manner to highlight my safety concerns - is that:
1/ We cannot change the arrival time of a flight by more than a couple of minutes, so why try so hard?
2/ We are responsible for safety, not punctuality - why should we care so disproportionately about on time performance ?
3/ Do you think that crews have this mindset at your airline as well? Is it not dangerous?
I like to get away on time but I'd rather be a bit late than rush things and compromise safety. Perhaps the most irritating delay is sitting on the FD arguing with the dispatcher about the reason for delay!
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nipping at ATC for shortcuts,
the kinks makes a diff and ATC aren't annoyed why not?
Safety
Comfort
Schedule
Economy
If schedule can be regained without incurring safety and pax
comfort issues, again why not?
Rushing is one thing - making up schedule safely and properly
is another.
PS and what's wrong with intersection TOs? Schedule overides
economy.
I can bring up the speed on things safely and efficiently but I
have to pick the right FO. I'd never do it with a kid with less
than 2,000 hours.
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arguing with the dispatcher about the reason for delay!
of WHAT has caused the delay to p/back.. eg -
1. Holding due TSRA 22 min
2. Holding on taxiway X due apron congestion after landing 7 min
3. Writing out this dumb form a further 4 min!
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It's a fallacy. Pax only care about arrival time not departure time. The same goes for keeping the a/c on schedule. Following flights and crew changes are based on arrival times. If the carrier squeezes it too tight; tuff on them. It's better to be 10 mins late than 20 years early.
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Originally Posted by Rat5
Pax only care about arrival time not departure time.
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punctuality and safety are not mutually exclusive.
certainly rushing checklists or screwing up is not part of any equation and there are ways to shave time quite safely...however some do not know how.
have checklists done early, so you do not rush them.
and being fast below 10,000' isn't so much for the birds but for collision avoidance.
asking ATC for direct is just fine...period...they are there for you, not the other way 'round.
there are ways to plan ahead...be ahead and make up a bit of time...one thing to understand...if you make up 3 minutes in the cruise area, you might be ahead of a dozen planes in the terminal area.
you might also be three minutes ahead of a storm which would cause you to divert, refuel, and end up more tired by the time you get to original destination...each additional landing/takeoff exposes you to more hazard.
you said you can't change arrival time by more than a couple of minutes, so why try?
like I said...if you are three minutes early, you are 'head of the pack', beat a storm, allow for a connection to be made and so much more.
so, nothing wrong...except things like taxiing too fast, breaking regulations, not doing checklists...but those things can happen while ahead of schedule too.
have things ready well in advance...get the clearance after the shutdown check is complete...you might find out about a gatehold early!
call in and request a quick turn from ground personnel.
and isn't it funny when a lightning detector dictates ground folk can't come out and help you park?
safety first...but there are ways of moving along quite safely and even making safety even better.
certainly rushing checklists or screwing up is not part of any equation and there are ways to shave time quite safely...however some do not know how.
have checklists done early, so you do not rush them.
and being fast below 10,000' isn't so much for the birds but for collision avoidance.
asking ATC for direct is just fine...period...they are there for you, not the other way 'round.
there are ways to plan ahead...be ahead and make up a bit of time...one thing to understand...if you make up 3 minutes in the cruise area, you might be ahead of a dozen planes in the terminal area.
you might also be three minutes ahead of a storm which would cause you to divert, refuel, and end up more tired by the time you get to original destination...each additional landing/takeoff exposes you to more hazard.
you said you can't change arrival time by more than a couple of minutes, so why try?
like I said...if you are three minutes early, you are 'head of the pack', beat a storm, allow for a connection to be made and so much more.
so, nothing wrong...except things like taxiing too fast, breaking regulations, not doing checklists...but those things can happen while ahead of schedule too.
have things ready well in advance...get the clearance after the shutdown check is complete...you might find out about a gatehold early!
call in and request a quick turn from ground personnel.
and isn't it funny when a lightning detector dictates ground folk can't come out and help you park?
safety first...but there are ways of moving along quite safely and even making safety even better.
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Sounds like where I work... It's all about apportioning blame. Someone is responsible for a delay!
short flights long nights
For the life of me, I have never been able to figure out this obsession from management about on time depatures. Surely if you arrive on time, that is all the passangers (not customers or guests
) are worried about.
And, at the risk of being shot down, IMHO all this asking for short cuts, is a total waste of time...a short cut from Amsterdam direct to the FAF of 07 in Hong Kong will save time, the rest is just not worth worrying about.
) are worried about.And, at the risk of being shot down, IMHO all this asking for short cuts, is a total waste of time...a short cut from Amsterdam direct to the FAF of 07 in Hong Kong will save time, the rest is just not worth worrying about.
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Slots can be lost if an airline consistently fails to meet departure timings. How much does a slot at Heathrow cost? Perhaps as much as your aeroplane.
Being late on the departure has a number of knock-ons as well. That inbound aircraft wanting your gate, those ground handlers seeing you out need to be elsewhere. It isn't just about you guys in the pointy end, it's about the team getting the flight out on time, and the next one, and the next one...
You may think that the punters don't care about departure time, but they know a flight out late is likely going to arrive late. Even if you promise to make it up, you are only trying to meet their expectations, not exceed them. Please, remember your customers, if you want to make them happy then you have to exceed their expectations consistently. They will love you to bits.
But of course Safety does come first.
Being late on the departure has a number of knock-ons as well. That inbound aircraft wanting your gate, those ground handlers seeing you out need to be elsewhere. It isn't just about you guys in the pointy end, it's about the team getting the flight out on time, and the next one, and the next one...
You may think that the punters don't care about departure time, but they know a flight out late is likely going to arrive late. Even if you promise to make it up, you are only trying to meet their expectations, not exceed them. Please, remember your customers, if you want to make them happy then you have to exceed their expectations consistently. They will love you to bits.
But of course Safety does come first.
Last edited by ExXB; 24th Aug 2013 at 21:48.
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Maintaining schedule is part of the game. People move at different speeds, so rushing for one is perhaps stepping-up the pace for another. Safety should never be compromised, but I think one can make efforts to makeup time without a compromise of safety. With life there is always balance.
As we say in my current gig, even though we are task completion oriented, "There will be no suicide for science".
As we say in my current gig, even though we are task completion oriented, "There will be no suicide for science".
Nothing in aviation safety should be taken as black and white, except perhaps the finality of life.
Safety is not without risk; identify and manage risks to maintain an acceptable level.
Manage those aspects which are within your power; to the best of your ability.
The above requires judgement.
Judgement comes with experience.
Experience comes with practice and time.
Make sure that your time does not come too soon.
… when you climb a ladder and something is out of reach, there are two things you can do: stretch out to reach it or climb down and move the ladder. "Ten years ago I stretched out; today I move the ladder. I've learnt it's worth the effort." After Hollnagel.
The ETTO Principle.
Fostering successes rather than reducing failures.
Safety is not without risk; identify and manage risks to maintain an acceptable level.
Manage those aspects which are within your power; to the best of your ability.
The above requires judgement.
Judgement comes with experience.
Experience comes with practice and time.
Make sure that your time does not come too soon.
… when you climb a ladder and something is out of reach, there are two things you can do: stretch out to reach it or climb down and move the ladder. "Ten years ago I stretched out; today I move the ladder. I've learnt it's worth the effort." After Hollnagel.
The ETTO Principle.
Fostering successes rather than reducing failures.
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You may think that the punters don't care about departure time, but they know a flight out late is likely going to arrive late.
On schedule is push back time. I was in JFK 1995-97. Often push on time and spend 1 hour in a take off queue. But we were on time. Same at CDG, AMS FCO. the taxi times were what killed your arrival schedule, but hey, you pushed on time.
On schedule is push back time. I was in JFK 1995-97. Often push on time and spend 1 hour in a take off queue. But we were on time. Same at CDG, AMS FCO. the taxi times were what killed your arrival schedule, but hey, you pushed on time.
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- especially with connections. Trouble is, I believe the 'league tables' for airlines depend on departure time. In my time in BA as long as you were off chox within ?3? I think you could take as looonnnggg as you like to get the pax to destination and still shine as an airline. Go figure!
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Too many chaps and chapettes are way to "Gotta to complete the mission oriented.".
Safety of operation comes first, regardless of what the toads sitting in their warm OCC offices say. I've been doing this commercial flying way too long to be intimidated by any of those sitting in their ivory towers.
If I realize that on time may not happen, I will request either a swap for a SLOT with a colleague or just request a revised SLOT itself. Once underway, there is no problem with asking for as many short cuts as possible, and cruising at a greater mach number to make up time. I know the 737 it does not really make a difference, but in the old 727 from .80 to 875 made a difference.
Bottom line... safety of operation comes first. All in the front must be comfortable with the operation. The guy or gal in the right seat must realize that the guy or gal in the right seat will put safety first.
Safety of operation comes first, regardless of what the toads sitting in their warm OCC offices say. I've been doing this commercial flying way too long to be intimidated by any of those sitting in their ivory towers.
If I realize that on time may not happen, I will request either a swap for a SLOT with a colleague or just request a revised SLOT itself. Once underway, there is no problem with asking for as many short cuts as possible, and cruising at a greater mach number to make up time. I know the 737 it does not really make a difference, but in the old 727 from .80 to 875 made a difference.
Bottom line... safety of operation comes first. All in the front must be comfortable with the operation. The guy or gal in the right seat must realize that the guy or gal in the right seat will put safety first.
But of course Safety does come first.
The guy or gal in the right seat must realize that the guy or gal in the right seat will put safety first.
Last edited by Centaurus; 25th Aug 2013 at 12:17.
