Airport security - Is it all a play for the public and politicians?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere close to me
Posts: 742
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airport security - Is it all a play for the public and politicians?
Now a couple of eye-openers for me, and maybe I am paranoid with regards to these issues, but still I am curious with regards to other peoples thoughts of this.
During the last few years security at the airports have become apparently much more stricter, with regards to potential dangerous objects that are not allowed to be brought with on-board.
Of course we would not expect anybody to have sharp weapons like knives etc on themselves.
However for me there are a few obvious issues I have with this.
Few months ago I visited an airport in Europe, selling Swiss Army knives, in all sizes, this was after passing the security control!
How can this be allowed? With a connecting flight very often you do not go trough any more screenings nearly anywhere in the world where you go, with few exceptions.
In another airport, in Denmark I saw them selling a large cork-screw wine opener, or maybe it is me having to much imagination?
Finally, the issue that makes me think that all the security is a joke, is the fact they allow the sales of alcohol glass bottles at the airport, now with 1, 2 or more bottles, of hard would it be to have a dangerous sharp object made, simply by breaking 1, 2 or more bottles!
Of course the airport companies would not be happy for such increased security measures, however it should raise questions that potential dangerous objects are allowed, because it suits the airport in their search for profit - I guess some can have their cake and eat it!
Does it take an incident or an accident for something to be changed?
I guess the need for profit by the airport operators is greater than the need for safety and security!
I mean what is most dangerous, my belt or my watch, that I have to take of every day on duty, or a pax with 2 bottles of Vodka?
During the last few years security at the airports have become apparently much more stricter, with regards to potential dangerous objects that are not allowed to be brought with on-board.
Of course we would not expect anybody to have sharp weapons like knives etc on themselves.
However for me there are a few obvious issues I have with this.
Few months ago I visited an airport in Europe, selling Swiss Army knives, in all sizes, this was after passing the security control!
How can this be allowed? With a connecting flight very often you do not go trough any more screenings nearly anywhere in the world where you go, with few exceptions.
In another airport, in Denmark I saw them selling a large cork-screw wine opener, or maybe it is me having to much imagination?
Finally, the issue that makes me think that all the security is a joke, is the fact they allow the sales of alcohol glass bottles at the airport, now with 1, 2 or more bottles, of hard would it be to have a dangerous sharp object made, simply by breaking 1, 2 or more bottles!
Of course the airport companies would not be happy for such increased security measures, however it should raise questions that potential dangerous objects are allowed, because it suits the airport in their search for profit - I guess some can have their cake and eat it!
Does it take an incident or an accident for something to be changed?
I guess the need for profit by the airport operators is greater than the need for safety and security!
I mean what is most dangerous, my belt or my watch, that I have to take of every day on duty, or a pax with 2 bottles of Vodka?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll believe that the Governments and airports are serious about security when I see some kind of realisation that until the huge gaps in the "security fence" around operating passenger aircraft are closed, there is no effective security. Pantomimes with searching little old ladies and 2-year old children, confiscating pilots' sandwiches and engineers' tools, stealing Iphones, and so on, notwithstanding.
Using the huge gaps (cargo, duty-free stocks, maintenance facilities, to name but 3 of them) any reasonably well-organised and intelligent group can arrange either for a device to be on board whenever it chooses, to explode whenever it chooses, and/or for a group to be on board an aircraft of their choice, at a time of their choice, equipped with their choice of weapons and tools.
The measures needed to close the gaps are commercially and/or politically unpalatable, or so the operators, airports and Governments believe. This belief will change when a high-profile act is successful, as it did in the USA on 9/11.
Until that moment, let's all go on pretending. We don't actually want proper security, do we, when we realise that ticket costs would double at least, and revenue passenger kilometers would halve at least. The era of flying frequently and cheaply would end. Think of all those Airbus 380s, scrapped due to lack of demand.
But flying would then be safe.
The "successes" to date have been against groups of morons, or a single moron. But let no-one think that terrorist groups are all morons and cannot organise. From the complex planning and preparation in the early '70s by Palestinian groups in a number of hijacks, to 9/11, it has been shown that terrorists can be as clever as anyone else. I watched one of those take place, on the ramp at Dubai, and was involved with the aftermath of that.
Security is not "strict" now, nor has it ever been. Do not confuse the theatre in terminals' airside accesses with security.
Using the huge gaps (cargo, duty-free stocks, maintenance facilities, to name but 3 of them) any reasonably well-organised and intelligent group can arrange either for a device to be on board whenever it chooses, to explode whenever it chooses, and/or for a group to be on board an aircraft of their choice, at a time of their choice, equipped with their choice of weapons and tools.
The measures needed to close the gaps are commercially and/or politically unpalatable, or so the operators, airports and Governments believe. This belief will change when a high-profile act is successful, as it did in the USA on 9/11.
Until that moment, let's all go on pretending. We don't actually want proper security, do we, when we realise that ticket costs would double at least, and revenue passenger kilometers would halve at least. The era of flying frequently and cheaply would end. Think of all those Airbus 380s, scrapped due to lack of demand.
But flying would then be safe.
The "successes" to date have been against groups of morons, or a single moron. But let no-one think that terrorist groups are all morons and cannot organise. From the complex planning and preparation in the early '70s by Palestinian groups in a number of hijacks, to 9/11, it has been shown that terrorists can be as clever as anyone else. I watched one of those take place, on the ramp at Dubai, and was involved with the aftermath of that.
Security is not "strict" now, nor has it ever been. Do not confuse the theatre in terminals' airside accesses with security.
Last edited by Capot; 24th Mar 2013 at 17:24.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wor Yerm
Age: 68
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Those that pose a threat include psychos, criminals, asylum seeks and our old adversary, the terrorist. Criminals are generally after cash - it's easier to become a lawyer or a city trader (same people) and escape with the cash. So as far as aviation is concerned, they are not really a threat. Asylum seekers now find it difficult to get near aircraft - low threat level. Psychos are generally loners, so lack back-up - low threat level. Which leaves our religious wackos. Misguided but intelligent, resourceful and highly motivated vs the numpties who run security. Not a fair fight. Also, do you think for one minute they'll come through the front door? And remember, passengers now know what when these guys take over a plane, so they'll have to choose a different method or target. So selling a few Swiss Army knives (as long as the blade is not in excess of 6cm) won't change the price of bacon.
Eliminate the terrorists and/or eliminate their grievances. It's that or we'll be enduring the theatre of security for decades to come.
Eliminate the terrorists and/or eliminate their grievances. It's that or we'll be enduring the theatre of security for decades to come.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: earth
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After 2011 there have been several instances of "passengers gone wild" where one a-hole get's out of line and get's the crap knocked out of him by other pax because we are all scared. Cockpit's are secure, there is establashed protocol for crew and usually pleny of passengers that are not afraid of a 2-3" blade if they view it as a threat to confront.
Having said that I believe the september 11'th attack scenario would have been quite different giving the stress and fear the flying public has today. Not to mention the last line of defence, the pilots.
Having said that I believe the september 11'th attack scenario would have been quite different giving the stress and fear the flying public has today. Not to mention the last line of defence, the pilots.
Last edited by grounded27; 25th Mar 2013 at 07:40.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere close to me
Posts: 742
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Had we know of the mentality, how far the terrorist was willing to go 9/11, of course the outcome probably would have been very different, as in theory overcoming 2 crazy guys with knives would not have been a surprise.
It was the element of shock and awe, that we could not believe that the ultimate goal would be total self-destruction, to achieve our goals.
One of my points is that it is very clear, the airports own thirst to make money far super-seeds and security needs!
Some airports does show some logic with crews, and this is much appreciated. However the majority operate with a strange logic - which makes any intelligent human being raise questions of their methods and thought process!
It was the element of shock and awe, that we could not believe that the ultimate goal would be total self-destruction, to achieve our goals.
One of my points is that it is very clear, the airports own thirst to make money far super-seeds and security needs!
Some airports does show some logic with crews, and this is much appreciated. However the majority operate with a strange logic - which makes any intelligent human being raise questions of their methods and thought process!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In my seat
Posts: 822
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Only in the UK is security disgraceful against crews. Everywhere else I am able to take my can of coke, deo, etc. with me onboard.
Only the UK seems to hire absolute morons not fit to stand behind a macdonalds counter.
Only the UK seems to hire absolute morons not fit to stand behind a macdonalds counter.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In my experience it's the smaller airports, both in the UK and North America that have worse security guards. Flying through Roanoke I was singled out, hearing one officer say "Get the Brit." At which point he ransacked my bag, made me remove my jeans, and searched through everything I had, including tipping out the entire contents of a tin of mints.
When asked "was security as good as this back in Heathrow?" I replied with a smile, "No, back home our security are efficient and competent, not egotists on a power trip." That shut him up and I was quickly advised to get to my plane.
When asked "was security as good as this back in Heathrow?" I replied with a smile, "No, back home our security are efficient and competent, not egotists on a power trip." That shut him up and I was quickly advised to get to my plane.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Melbourne
Age: 60
Posts: 952
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
jackieofalltrades
LOL! Totally agree.
In Oz it is required for any a/c with a max Takeoff weight of 20T (somehow including a Dash-8 300).
At the smaller airports the security are often newly hired and part time. Sometimes they will only screen around 50 pax in an entire shift. So it takes them years (sometimes) to relax into their job.
As a pax I've had items confiscated that passed through captial city airports. When I complained and mentioned that said item had been through every Australian domestic airport (and two internationals) within the previous 12 months I was glibly told "We can't help it if other airports don't do the job properly."
As crew, I've seen security at one of our outports require removal of belts, shoes, tie pin, pens, and even our airline badge (FFS).
LOL! Totally agree.
In Oz it is required for any a/c with a max Takeoff weight of 20T (somehow including a Dash-8 300).
At the smaller airports the security are often newly hired and part time. Sometimes they will only screen around 50 pax in an entire shift. So it takes them years (sometimes) to relax into their job.
As a pax I've had items confiscated that passed through captial city airports. When I complained and mentioned that said item had been through every Australian domestic airport (and two internationals) within the previous 12 months I was glibly told "We can't help it if other airports don't do the job properly."
As crew, I've seen security at one of our outports require removal of belts, shoes, tie pin, pens, and even our airline badge (FFS).
Good job INS / GPS was invented, or how would navigators have managed if their dividers had been confiscated ?
I only thought of this the other day, opening my briefcase a student asked what that was ? "that" was a pair of traditional looking dividers pushed down the side of the case that held my E6B computer and Dalton protractor, and another pilot remarked that I'd better not take them through security - anywhere.
I truly hadn't considered that, having last carried them pre-9/11, but had I forgotten and taken them recently for any reason, I'd now be in Gauntanamo Bay in an orange jump suit, if not on death row somewhere.
My dividers have been part of my Nav. kit ever since I started flying, and were originally bought for my father by my grandmother, when he started work as an engineering apprentice just after the First World War.
They are 6 1/4" long with very sharp points, and they have been around the World with me many times over a 40 yr professional flying career - including time as a Flight Navigator - and I would truly kill for them if some TSA idiot tried to take them off me.
Don't care, World's Gone Mad.
Some time ago, boarding in Honolulu for LAX, I truly forgot that I still had my Swiss Army knife in my carry-on bag. The TSA agent suggested that I go back through the entry to the 'secure' area and ask the airline ticket agent to post them to my home. The agent produced a very large box, ( previously used for a dozen boxes of Kellogs cornflakes if I recall ) placed my knife in it, taped it up, added a LAX cargo label to it, put it on the conveyor and wished me a pleasant trip.
On arrival LAX my box was one of the first items to arrive on the baggage conveyor belt, I opened it, removed my knife, and let the box carry on its merry way.
Won one.
I only thought of this the other day, opening my briefcase a student asked what that was ? "that" was a pair of traditional looking dividers pushed down the side of the case that held my E6B computer and Dalton protractor, and another pilot remarked that I'd better not take them through security - anywhere.
I truly hadn't considered that, having last carried them pre-9/11, but had I forgotten and taken them recently for any reason, I'd now be in Gauntanamo Bay in an orange jump suit, if not on death row somewhere.
My dividers have been part of my Nav. kit ever since I started flying, and were originally bought for my father by my grandmother, when he started work as an engineering apprentice just after the First World War.
They are 6 1/4" long with very sharp points, and they have been around the World with me many times over a 40 yr professional flying career - including time as a Flight Navigator - and I would truly kill for them if some TSA idiot tried to take them off me.
Don't care, World's Gone Mad.
Some time ago, boarding in Honolulu for LAX, I truly forgot that I still had my Swiss Army knife in my carry-on bag. The TSA agent suggested that I go back through the entry to the 'secure' area and ask the airline ticket agent to post them to my home. The agent produced a very large box, ( previously used for a dozen boxes of Kellogs cornflakes if I recall ) placed my knife in it, taped it up, added a LAX cargo label to it, put it on the conveyor and wished me a pleasant trip.
On arrival LAX my box was one of the first items to arrive on the baggage conveyor belt, I opened it, removed my knife, and let the box carry on its merry way.
Won one.
Last edited by ExSp33db1rd; 26th Mar 2013 at 08:48.
