Unacceptable to tell an ATC off?
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Unacceptable to tell an ATC off?
Flying last night and the ATC was a complete 
.
We all start somewhere, and being given so many details, us being rushed as it is, it was hard for me to note everything down the first time around, so I asked him to say again SLOWER(politely).
He started saying it REALLY slow like I was a retard.
Then I read back and missed something, MY BAD yes, he could have just said that part back, he was VERY rude and started yelling I WILL SAY AGAIN, and he didn't repeat what I missed out, but everyyyything again.
Then before takeoff he gave us clearance and i read back, he replied with "Did you copy the wind???".
I just ignored him.
Airport was not busy at ALL.
Seriously though, I really wanted to tell him off..
My first job, my first flight in 3 weeks, and only done few flights as it is..
.We all start somewhere, and being given so many details, us being rushed as it is, it was hard for me to note everything down the first time around, so I asked him to say again SLOWER(politely).
He started saying it REALLY slow like I was a retard.
Then I read back and missed something, MY BAD yes, he could have just said that part back, he was VERY rude and started yelling I WILL SAY AGAIN, and he didn't repeat what I missed out, but everyyyything again.
Then before takeoff he gave us clearance and i read back, he replied with "Did you copy the wind???".
I just ignored him.
Airport was not busy at ALL.
Seriously though, I really wanted to tell him off..
My first job, my first flight in 3 weeks, and only done few flights as it is..
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It's perfectly acceptable. Everything an ATCO says is recorded. So if you have a problem with what happened, make the call (or fill in the paperwork).
This particular ATCO is probably in a minority of one or two.
This particular ATCO is probably in a minority of one or two.
Last edited by Piltdown Man; 20th Nov 2012 at 18:38.
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its rare (in the UK) for a controller to act like that. Request the controller initials and send in a report. The tapes are kept for a minimum of 28 days I think. If he is a problem individual it will not be the only report - if he was having an off day he'll probably apologise. Its simply poor CRM. If it made you feel apprehensive and increased your stress without good reason then someone should make him aware of that - he probably doesn't know thats how he comes across.
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Just get over it. You are new and most probably every other pilot would have gotten it correct the first time. Itīs just a matter of exposure to the real life airline enviroment. Donīt linger too much around it and better luck next time. (by the way... Iīve been there and done the same
)
)
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Its surely not nice, but anyone can have a bad day at the office.
An ATCO is no exception. Try not to be bitter, just get over it and work on your skills...
Been there, done that. With practice you will know what to expect and that is about 'half the rent'...youīll be laughing at your current problems within a short time.
An ATCO is no exception. Try not to be bitter, just get over it and work on your skills...
My first job, my first flight in 3 weeks, and only done few flights as it is..
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mayday, i hope your joking....
That was the most arrogant bit of crap i have read on these forums in years.
whysotough. its completely unacceptable that the atc treated you that way, as it would if a pilot treated an atc that way. as others have said file a report and let the established procedures do the rest. the controller will be spoken to no doubt but certainly wont lose their job as others have mentioned.
That was the most arrogant bit of crap i have read on these forums in years.
whysotough. its completely unacceptable that the atc treated you that way, as it would if a pilot treated an atc that way. as others have said file a report and let the established procedures do the rest. the controller will be spoken to no doubt but certainly wont lose their job as others have mentioned.
Please remember: ATC is a service to pilots.
We do what they ask of course, but ATC are there to assist us and provide what we need to enable a safe flight - that's what we are paying for in our navigation charges.
In most "first world" countries, ATC is generally very good, but some country's ATC's seem to regard it as a sign of masculinity or cleverness to pass instructions as fast as possible. This is neither big nor clever, and ultimately; not conducive to safety.
An ATC in the Caribbean area once passed us a QNH of "993", but we knew they used inches of mercury in that area. We asked them to repeat about three times and it eventually turned out the guy was saying "two nine nine three", but he was trying to be too slick and it resulted in an ASR.
We do what they ask of course, but ATC are there to assist us and provide what we need to enable a safe flight - that's what we are paying for in our navigation charges.
In most "first world" countries, ATC is generally very good, but some country's ATC's seem to regard it as a sign of masculinity or cleverness to pass instructions as fast as possible. This is neither big nor clever, and ultimately; not conducive to safety.
An ATC in the Caribbean area once passed us a QNH of "993", but we knew they used inches of mercury in that area. We asked them to repeat about three times and it eventually turned out the guy was saying "two nine nine three", but he was trying to be too slick and it resulted in an ASR.
Last edited by Uplinker; 20th Nov 2012 at 20:13.
Not acceptable behaviour fom any ATCO, but as others have said - anyone can have an off-day. It is acceptable to offer feedback for poor service, but not at all acceptable to do it on the radio. Mostly a quick telephone chat would clear up any misunderstanding and make everyone happier.
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I had a similar experience a long time ago.
The cure for smartarsed ATC's is
read back a whole lot of garbage.
That brings them down to where they must re issue the clearance in total
One can have a laugh at it later once the heat is off but its a good cure.
The cure for smartarsed ATC's is
read back a whole lot of garbage.
That brings them down to where they must re issue the clearance in total
One can have a laugh at it later once the heat is off but its a good cure.
He is, read his other posts (particularly his method for turning using engine power only).
A340 driver my a**e
A340 driver my a**e
I am currently at university in my final year doing a BA(Hons) degree for an aviation related course
Of course that doesn't entirely rule out the possibility that he also flies A340s in his spare time, but ...
First, if the ATCO in question was having such a 'bad day', perhaps he/she was unfit for duty. Clearly whatever may have been causing his/her 'bad day' was hazardous to a safe operation.
Second, the RTF is NO place for the alleged behaviour. That in itself is another recipe for distraction and possibly a further incident.
Third, ATCOs and pilots should always remember that the person at the other end of the radio may be inexperienced; having technical difficulties with the radio; have just been distracted [rightly or wrongly] etc.
Fourth, 'Say again slowly' is part of the standard RTF phraseology....not an indicator that there is a dullard on the other end.
Fifth, the holes in the cheese can line up so easily, they don't need any help!
Finally, it is 'safety first',......even when the person at the other end of the radio is an annoyance!!
Second, the RTF is NO place for the alleged behaviour. That in itself is another recipe for distraction and possibly a further incident.
Third, ATCOs and pilots should always remember that the person at the other end of the radio may be inexperienced; having technical difficulties with the radio; have just been distracted [rightly or wrongly] etc.
Fourth, 'Say again slowly' is part of the standard RTF phraseology....not an indicator that there is a dullard on the other end.
Fifth, the holes in the cheese can line up so easily, they don't need any help!
Finally, it is 'safety first',......even when the person at the other end of the radio is an annoyance!!
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Clearly whatever may have been causing his/her 'bad day' was hazardous to a safe operation.
Cut him some slack, they (ATCOs) are as human as we are.
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OPTIONS
the idea of getting initials and writing a report is nice...by the way the controllerr will be worried for the next few weeks EVEN IF YOU NEVER FILE A COMPLAINT RePORT
or
in the USA, you can request a SUPERVISOR handle your flight...this annoys everyone but sure makes the point that you are unhappy with the current controllers.
or you can just say something cute like: didn't get any last night huh?
now, I've told of ATC pretty darn well when the controller, in broad daylight, visibility over 50 miles cleared me for takeoff when a fuel truck was in the middle of my runway...its as if he didn't look out the tower window.
blow it off...the first time I flew to New York, the brooklyn/queens accent was so bad Ihad to get a SAY AGAIN.
be well, and remember PILOTS outrank controllers all the time...as long as the PILOT is correct.
or
in the USA, you can request a SUPERVISOR handle your flight...this annoys everyone but sure makes the point that you are unhappy with the current controllers.
or you can just say something cute like: didn't get any last night huh?
now, I've told of ATC pretty darn well when the controller, in broad daylight, visibility over 50 miles cleared me for takeoff when a fuel truck was in the middle of my runway...its as if he didn't look out the tower window.
blow it off...the first time I flew to New York, the brooklyn/queens accent was so bad Ihad to get a SAY AGAIN.
be well, and remember PILOTS outrank controllers all the time...as long as the PILOT is correct.
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<<in the USA, you can request a SUPERVISOR handle your flight...>>
When I worked in UK ATC supervisors were not always validated so could not control aircraft!
When I worked in UK ATC supervisors were not always validated so could not control aircraft!
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It's the ATCOs job to make sure you go the correct way. As you have stated, you're a new pilot with not a lot of experience, especially recent. Following your post, you were unable to readback to first transmission because you couldn't get the information down fast enough, so you asked to get it again slower, fair enough. The ATCO gives the instructions to you at a slow pace, now you're angry at him for going TOO slow (despite asking to have it given slower).
After giving the clearance for a second time at a deliberately slow pace so you as a new pilot can copy all the info, you still get the readback wrong. The ATCO now has to give the info a third time to make sure YOU get it right. If there is any doubt that the pilot has not clearly understood the instructions in full, or there is any confusion, the instructions should be given again. If you have any doubt about this then google Tenerife Airport 1977. That is what happens when there is confusion between instruction given and instruction received.
This has now taken a lot of time that could and should have been able to be used elsewhere.
I don't know where this took place or any of the full details other than what you have stated but it may be a single man tower, which means that not only is he doing Airways clearance delivery, but also Surface movement control, Aerodrome control and Coordination to surrounding airspace. Take some time and organize to go visit the tower and you'll see that a lot more happens in the tower than you hear on just one frequency.
Failing that, call up the ANSP and get a copy of the audio recording for the time and put it up here so we can all listen and form an informed opinion on what actually happened.
Do some research on what happened at Tenerife, and next time you feel that that the ATCO was being mean by making sure the instructions given were understood accurately, by happy that you won't end up like one of the 583 people dead, burned and crushed to death because of a communications misunderstanding.
Seriously, lighten up and remember that ATCOs don't want you to die just as much as you don't. Respect goes both ways.
After giving the clearance for a second time at a deliberately slow pace so you as a new pilot can copy all the info, you still get the readback wrong. The ATCO now has to give the info a third time to make sure YOU get it right. If there is any doubt that the pilot has not clearly understood the instructions in full, or there is any confusion, the instructions should be given again. If you have any doubt about this then google Tenerife Airport 1977. That is what happens when there is confusion between instruction given and instruction received.
This has now taken a lot of time that could and should have been able to be used elsewhere.
I don't know where this took place or any of the full details other than what you have stated but it may be a single man tower, which means that not only is he doing Airways clearance delivery, but also Surface movement control, Aerodrome control and Coordination to surrounding airspace. Take some time and organize to go visit the tower and you'll see that a lot more happens in the tower than you hear on just one frequency.
Failing that, call up the ANSP and get a copy of the audio recording for the time and put it up here so we can all listen and form an informed opinion on what actually happened.
Do some research on what happened at Tenerife, and next time you feel that that the ATCO was being mean by making sure the instructions given were understood accurately, by happy that you won't end up like one of the 583 people dead, burned and crushed to death because of a communications misunderstanding.
Seriously, lighten up and remember that ATCOs don't want you to die just as much as you don't. Respect goes both ways.
Last edited by Kieran17; 22nd Nov 2012 at 02:15.
